VEMS PnP making the rounds

[gstuning]

Been a few installed here and there by customers but I installed one the other day and with making up a m52 map it took 30minutes total to get this thing running.

3.0 M52 E36 RHD

[chikinhed]

30 min for you maybe but what about you average noob?

Sent from my GTX3582R

[M3poseur]

^^^^^^^^^^^
Very nice and clean.

30 min for you maybe but what about you average noob?

Sent from my GTX3582R

Probably never.

[wazzu70]

If he sends the unit with the correct trigger settings and a fuel/spark basemap it could easily take only 30 min. Since its a PnP he already knows all the wiring inputs so he can set that up ahead of time.

Setting up the triggers and learning how to adjust the inputs/outputs is a vast majority of the work.

Install looks really clean Gunni!

[gstuning]

30 min for you maybe but what about you average noob?

Sent from my GTX3582R

This is the first M52 PnP ECU. So I had to set the base map up for it, i.e coils and injector locations, relays and such.
After that it was just setup the injector size and fire it up and it did.

So the next M52 PnP will be ready to fire after settings TPS, Wideband and injector sizes.
I have already made a base map for S50B32's and there are basemaps for M50 versions.

[geargrinder]

interdasting. as mentioned once there are some basemaps / base-configs out there should be pretty easy for n00bz, without that 'never' indeed is the correct answer.

lotta guys make good power on Audi's w/ VEMS. i played w/ VEMStune a little bit a long time ago, can't say I enjoyed it in fact I found certain things buggy and annoying, but if you're dedicated it seems capable. and maybe its better now, I dunno. there are easier, less amateur hack-source type systems out there but the price is pretty good for the flexibility and if you factor in PnP setups being available... it's an option certainly.

[wazzu70]

The interface has improved quite a bit in the last few years. The older interface was more difficult.

Luckily there are people here who run it and can answer questions VEMS also has a forum that provides good help.

[JimsR]

Is this real pnp, as in remove stock ecu, plug in VEMS and start tuning?

[Butters Stoch]

VE FTW

So, VEMS now has a PNP OBD2 stand alone. Will this be same $1300 as the M50 PNP units ? Or will this be.... ?

What needs to be changed ? And or added ? Obviously a map sensor, most likely an additional IAT sensor ?

Will you need an OBD1 cam sensor ? Or is the configured to the obd2 sensor ?

[whitecord]

this is cool. now if it was flex fuel compatible that would be even cooler

[gstuning]

Is this real pnp, as in remove stock ecu, plug in VEMS and start tuning?

Yes. Exactly that, comes with a wideband sensor and map sensor

this is cool. now if it was flex fuel compatible that would be even cooler

It is crudely right now, but hopefully later this year a complete flex fuel sensor fuel/ignition tuning will be added

VE FTW

So, VEMS now has a PNP OBD2 stand alone. Will this be same $1300 as the M50 PNP units ? Or will this be.... ?

What needs to be changed ? And or added ? Obviously a map sensor, most likely an additional IAT sensor ?

Will you need an OBD1 cam sensor ? Or is the configured to the obd2 sensor ?

This is infact the same item, there are a few versions that are PnP,

M50 non vanos and vanos
S50B32 - The 3.2 Euro with dual vanos control
M42B18 - E30 and E36
M52BX - currently does not operate on the stock cam sensor, but is wired to take a hall effect vanos sensor.

The car pictured M52 ran no cam sensor perfectly fine.

From this very forum - http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...-group-buy-850

[Fender13Bender]

This is sweet.

So who would tune my car on this and teach me how to?

[gstuning]

Your local tuner , the presentation provides some links to youtube videos on how to use the Vemstune software.

I always help people with whatever they need, usually so much that I never hear from them again and they never bother getting a dyno setup as they are happy enough with what they have.

[Fender13Bender]

Your local tuner , the presentation provides some links to youtube videos on how to use the Vemstune software.

I always help people with whatever they need, usually so much that I never hear from them again and they never bother getting a dyno setup as they are happy enough with what they have.

So your saying a base tune by the user with your help is good enough to drive around on and break axles?

I've been thinking of going with a standalone since I have an electronic boost controller, stock DME tune, data logger, and meth injection. It would be nice to have that all in one system and I would absolutely love to learn how to tune.

How does vems work in conjunction with aquamist meth injection?

[wazzu70]

There are quite a few people on here that can help you with tuning the VEMS unit. Dialing in the fuel is simple, and the ignition maps floating around are good enough to get you running and you can dial it in more accurately on the dyno. There is also a VEMS forum to answer questions and Gunni went over and above answering all my silly questions when I was setting mine up.

People try and make engine tuning all mysterious and black voodoo magic. Its really pretty simple, especially if you start out with a nice config set up for your engine already. The best way to learn is to jump in and get your hands dirty!

[Fender13Bender]

There are quite a few people on here that can help you with tuning the VEMS unit. Dialing in the fuel is simple, and the ignition maps floating around are good enough to get you running and you can dial it in more accurately on the dyno. There is also a VEMS forum to answer questions and Gunni went over and above answering all my silly questions when I was setting mine up.

People try and make engine tuning all mysterious and black voodoo magic. Its really pretty simple, especially if you start out with a nice config set up for your engine already. The best way to learn is to jump in and get your hands dirty!

Cool thanks.

So you have vems currently?

I'd like more info on E85 as well. There aren't many pumps close to me, but there are pumps. I'd like to run 93 and E85.

[wazzu70]

Yes I am running VEMS on my M42. For the E85 maps you need to use the anytrim function. I have not played with it myself yet but I know based off the input from the ethanol content sensor you can modify your fuel and ignition maps. Im not sure if the functon provides a scalar based on the ethanol content or it references a different map entirely.

There is also the option to have multiple tunes and switch between them. This is how I was going to do ethanol initially have it be pump petrol or ethanol only and not account for a random blend.

I would like to experiment with this myself, but I need to get the car put back together first

[gstuning]

So your saying a base tune by the user with your help is good enough to drive around on and break axles?

I've been thinking of going with a standalone since I have an electronic boost controller, stock DME tune, data logger, and meth injection. It would be nice to have that all in one system and I would absolutely love to learn how to tune.

How does vems work in conjunction with aquamist meth injection?

I was just having this conversation with someone thinking about buying a PnP, in essence the aquamist I believe when turned on has its own security features, i.e low tank etc.
From what I understand you should be able to wire into the VEMS that the aquamist is pumping and hence alter your map completely or change your ignition and or fuel outputs, as well as alter your boost.

For E85 running control the VEMS currently requires you to use a faked second vehicle speed input to read the frequency of the sensor and then alter your fuel and ignition based on the "speed".
I have requested that this be better implemented, but VEMS is busy at the moment with some complex PnP setups and other new hardware, but when it frees up they will be able to implement this.
When completed I would expect it to handle fuel temp and fuel ethanol content as well as other ECU's do currently.

Soon I am implementing a G sensor to a VEMS install so I can record on the road the actual acceleration produced and will log with the VEMS, this should get me as close to ideal ignition values as possible without seeing a dyno. A dyno will then be seen to simply get some numbers. Just by using the same road and direction again and again its very easy to arrive at peak produced torque/hp across the rpm range.

As Nick says, tuning is not black magic and actually extremely straightforward, but without experience it just takes time. There are tons of tuning information on youtube by reputable ECU manufacturers.

A new VEMSTune will allow you to connect to my Vemstune server and I can map your car from home as if I was there from my Vemstune. Same deal as being Teamviewer connected which I have done SO many times and mapped many a car that way.

Stock ECU's are great for OBD regulations, fault codes, fault diagnoses, elaborate drivability schemes etc. What they don´t usually provide is a one-in-all solution, your standalone can do boost control, launch control, antilag, view more sensors, control more outputs, wideband closed loop control at all loads and rpm's,

The VEMS for M50 vanos and M52 vanos has knock control as well, which you can adjust for your needs.

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...gnition-tables

Obviosuly ignition advance is the most difficult because you generally don´t have clear visible sign that you are getting to close to your MBT or knock, or the other way about to melt you valves.
In simple terms :

The things that effect required ignition advance are load, rpm and air temp.

More load = higher density of air , which is also colder intake air but not as crucial. This requires less advance
More rpm = more time required to create the spark for it to occur at the right time. However with more rpm you usually get more turbulence in the chamber which counter acts this at various amounts.

This is why almost all ignition tables look the same as in the link,.

EDIT :

My buddy is using a Powerstroke 6.0 VGT turbo operated by his VEMS on a SR20DET and able to record and monitor the backpressure and then fine tune the appropriate load and rpm points.
It all opens up when you have a standalone.

[wazzu70]

The accelerometer sounds really nice. I used to think going to a dyno was the best option...but now I live where there are not many dynos that can hold speed and load available. Im sure many are in the same boat so it would be nice to see a writeup on how to do this.

[Max525i]

Your local tuner , the presentation provides some links to youtube videos on how to use the Vemstune software.

I always help people with whatever they need, usually so much that I never hear from them again and they never bother getting a dyno setup as they are happy enough with what they have.

I know this is off topic, but reading your signature "You know what wins race? Integration wins races. Fraking mathematical certainty says it does." I realized you are probably the first person I met on the internet who understands me.