Which replacement convertible top?

[nikster22]

All,

I had an unfortunate incident with my M roadster this weekend. Someone attempted to steal my V1 out of it, and cut an enormous hole in the top in their efforts to do so. They weren't able to reach the radar, but the top needs replacement.

I've called both the local BMW dealer and an independent gentleman who specializes in convertible tops (very reputable, does Porsches, Ferraris, etc.). The dealer will put the OEM top on to the tune of $3100 installed. The independent will put on a top from "Robbins", which is supposed to be one of the best aftermarket top makers. I am fine with the Robbins top, except that it has a sewn-in rear window instead of a zipped in one. I JUST had the window replaced in the top on the car now about 2 weeks ago, and was hoping to hang onto it as a spare if/when the one in the new top goes bad. If I get the Robbins top, it sounds like the window is not replaceable. Insurance will be covering the majority of this, so I am not overly concerned with cost, I just want to make the best long-term decision. Any thoughts? Thanks!

[Randy Forbes]

OE; If it was me, even footing the entire bill, I'd opt for the original equipment top.

A member on here recently had an aftermarket top fitted; I recommended he contact someone I know that works at a BMW dealership. He fit the aftermarket top, with some difficulty, but mentioned to me that while it didn't look terrible, the rear window was a little larger and just didn't look "right."

This individual has fit at least three, maybe four (3-4) tops to my cars when they were under warranty (back window issues) and literally dozens more, including 3 & 6 Series Cabriolets, so experience was not an issue.

For my British cars, both past & present, I would always seek out Robbin's tops, as they were clearly better than (Ammco) alternatives.

[nikster22]

OE; If it was me, even footing the entire bill, I'd opt for the original equipment top.

A member on here recently had an aftermarket top fitted; I recommended he contact someone I know that works at a BMW dealership. He fit the aftermarket top, with some difficulty, but mentioned to me that while it didn't look terrible, the rear window was a little larger and just didn't look "right."

This individual has fit at least three, maybe four (3-4) tops to my cars when they were under warranty (back window issues) and literally dozens more, including 3 & 6 Series Cabriolets, so experience was not an issue.

For my British cars, both past & present, I would always seek out Robbin's tops, as they were clearly better than (Ammco) alternatives.

Thank you very much, that is exactly the kind of definitive answer I was looking for. Hopefully the dealer knows what they're doing when it comes to the install. Based on info from a mechanic friend who used to work there, the remaining techs are pretty good and have done many of them so it shouldn't be an issue.

I was thinking about asking them to pull the "new" rear window that I just had installed in the current top so I have a spare - is that worthwhile?

[Amuro Ray]

There is a replacement top (OE quality, but not OEM. It has a sewn in window) in the FD section for 250. Excellent deal.

[Randy Forbes]

Thank you very much, that is exactly the kind of definitive answer I was looking for. Hopefully the dealer knows what they're doing when it comes to the install. Based on info from a mechanic friend who used to work there, the remaining techs are pretty good and have done many of them so it shouldn't be an issue.

I was thinking about asking them to pull the "new" rear window that I just had installed in the current top so I have a spare - is that worthwhile?

Sure, it doesn't hurt to have a spare. They should be able to give that back to you, no problem.

For storage, put it in tissue paper, like when you received it; flat stored is probably better, but I'm keeping one rolled up on a shipping tube myself...

[amancuso]

If money is an issue, I know 2 people with the aftermarket sewn in windows. They look fantastic and have a full warranty. If the window ever needs replacement, a new one can be sewn in.

The key here is to find a shop familiar with both the car and the aftermarket top.

[nikster22]

Sure, it doesn't hurt to have a spare. They should be able to give that back to you, no problem.

For storage, put it in tissue paper, like when you received it; flat stored is probably better, but I'm keeping one rolled up on a shipping tube myself...

OK great, I will have them do that. I have an area in the garage where I can safely keep it flat. Just have to remember where I stashed it when the time comes!

If money is an issue, I know 2 people with the aftermarket sewn in windows. They look fantastic and have a full warranty. If the window ever needs replacement, a new one can be sewn in.

The key here is to find a shop familiar with both the car and the aftermarket top.

I'd be tempted on that if insurance weren't paying. However, since they are, once my deductible is exceeded (which I don't see how it possibly won't be given the cost) I'd rather just go with the best possible solution. At this point, it is sounding like OEM from the dealership is the way to go. Good to know that folks are very happy with the aftermarket stuff, though.

[kojohns]

There is a replacement top (OE quality, but not OEM. It has a sewn in window) in the FD section for 250. Excellent deal.

It's now $200 shipped... OP will likely want OEM in this case... but here it is:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1846686

[Z3racer701]

I went with a Robbins top through Cabrio-World.com. I wanted to have a four cylinder British Traditional replica, and they had the best BRG color top to match Boston Green. I've had this top on this car now for seven years, there are a few scratches in the rear window. I'm sure I can buff them out with the right polish.

[Average Joe]

OE; If it was me, even footing the entire bill, I'd opt for the original equipment top.

A member on here recently had an aftermarket top fitted; I recommended he contact someone I know that works at a BMW dealership. He fit the aftermarket top, with some difficulty, but mentioned to me that while it didn't look terrible, the rear window was a little larger and just didn't look "right."

This individual has fit at least three, maybe four (3-4) tops to my cars when they were under warranty (back window issues) and literally dozens more, including 3 & 6 Series Cabriolets, so experience was not an issue.

For my British cars, both past & present, I would always seek out Robbin's tops, as they were clearly better than (Ammco) alternatives.

I am the person whose top the car was installed on. Its a Robins top from topsonline.com. I think the top looks great, not sure what the installer didn't think looked "right" about it. He did have experience with OE tops, I'm sure its different in some ways (the installation process, for one). The rear window is larger, which I like. My total costs were less than half of what they would of been if I went OE. Of course, the rear window isn't removable, but I feel like it wouldn't be too bad to get one sewn in if needed.

Would make the same decision again in a heart beat.

Kyle Anderson, another forum member, got the EZon from topsonline, I've seen it in person several times and it looks great as well.

EDIT: Just noticed that you said cost didn't matter. Given that, might as well go OEM..... why not?

[dmytro]

Insurance companies! If you go for the discount (non-oem) top, ask them to give you discount insurance!

[Mr Bingley]

What about the independent installer with the OEM top--the dealer may or may not have a clue about how to instal the top on a 14 year old car, and/or may or may not assign the job to the tech in their shop who does. If the independent only does tops and high end ones at that, then he has a clue. Since insurance is paying, why not go OEM, surely the independent will install OEM, not just Robbins--he makes a better mark up on the OEM. Is insurance paying for a rental? Will the dealer give you a loaner?

[nikster22]

What about the independent installer with the OEM top--the dealer may or may not have a clue about how to instal the top on a 14 year old car, and/or may or may not assign the job to the tech in their shop who does. If the independent only does tops and high end ones at that, then he has a clue. Since insurance is paying, why not go OEM, surely the independent will install OEM, not just Robbins--he makes a better mark up on the OEM. Is insurance paying for a rental? Will the dealer give you a loaner?

I posed that question to the indy, who quickly indicated that he would prefer to do the robbins top because he doesn't get a discount from the dealer. This struck me as odd, considering insurance is paying and it shouldn't matter to either one of us (him or me) what the parts cost. I decided not to push it any further than that.

I consulted with a high school friend who used to work as a tech at the same dealer that I'll be bringing the car to, and he indicated that he'd trust any of the current techs to do the job and that quite a few z3's have been done there. Also, from what I've read, the OEM top is MUCH simpler to install because it is so complete, so they shouldn't have any issues or guesswork to contend with.

No loaner from the dealer (because I "didn't buy the car there" - pricks) but I have a TSX as a daily so I can use that while the M is in the shop.

I am the person whose top the car was installed on. Its a Robins top from topsonline.com. I think the top looks great, not sure what the installer didn't think looked "right" about it. He did have experience with OE tops, I'm sure its different in some ways (the installation process, for one). The rear window is larger, which I like. My total costs were less than half of what they would of been if I went OE. Of course, the rear window isn't removable, but I feel like it wouldn't be too bad to get one sewn in if needed.

Would make the same decision again in a heart beat.

Kyle Anderson, another forum member, got the EZon from topsonline, I've seen it in person several times and it looks great as well.

EDIT: Just noticed that you said cost didn't matter. Given that, might as well go OEM..... why not?

Agreed on your edit, that is why I'm leaning toward OEM and making the best of a crappy situation. Your top does look great though, however the fact that it is Estoril Blue (the color I REALLY wanted!) might be swaying my impression of it . Good to know there are solid aftermarket options, though.

Insurance companies! If you go for the discount (non-oem) top, ask them to give you discount insurance!

If only. I just claimed $2400 in hail damage on my Acura, too. Between that and the damage to the M, I have a feeling my rates will be going nowhere but up!

I went with a Robbins top through Cabrio-World.com. I wanted to have a four cylinder British Traditional replica, and they had the best BRG color top to match Boston Green. I've had this top on this car now for seven years, there are a few scratches in the rear window. I'm sure I can buff them out with the right polish.

Nice! I love the Boston Green, great color.

[Average Joe]

Agreed on your edit, that is why I'm leaning toward OEM and making the best of a crappy situation. Your top does look great though, however the fact that it is Estoril Blue (the color I REALLY wanted!) might be swaying my impression of it . Good to know there are solid aftermarket options, though.

Speaking of being swayed by color, I went from the factory blue to black, which looks sooooo much better over estoril IMO, that and the fact that I'm comparing it to a 12 yr old OE top are likely are making me bias toward the new one as well..

Infact, don't know if I've ever even seen a OE top less than a decade old up close...

[nikster22]

Speaking of being swayed by color, I went from the factory blue to black, which looks sooooo much better over estoril IMO, that and the fact that I'm comparing it to a 12 yr old OE top are likely are making me bias toward the new one as well..

Infact, don't know if I've ever even seen a OE top less than a decade old up close...

Yes! The black top/blue body is very special. Is the interior on that car blue as well? I was ready to hold out for that color combo when I was shopping, but the artic silver on black interior came up locally at a price I couldn't pass up. There were also little things about it that I liked that I didn't find to be true of all of the ones I looked at: covers over the center console/cup holders still in tact, boot cover included, etc. Long story short, silver is my color.

If you're in the Syracuse area, you're welcome to take a look at this one after I get the top installed. I know it won't be a big surprise what it looks like, but it's a new OE top on a 14 year old car. I'll post some pictures, too.

[nikster22]

Looks like I'm screwed...

The insurance company (Liberty Mutual) is refusing to pay the extra cost for the OEM top. They claim they're only required to use OEM for body panels, headlights, etc. Basically, cosmetic items. I fail to see how the top is not a cosmetic item! I am planning to do battle with them tomorrow. Does anyone have any experience with this type of thing? Am I wasting my breath pressuring them to use the OEM top when they're just going to turn me down anyway, or do I really have an argument here?

If it comes down to it, I'll go with the Robbins from the indy guy...

[z3forlife]

Check with your state insurance commisioner.I had a similar situation with the replacement of my front bumper cover.Ins only wanted to provide remanufactured cover but luckily vendor they said listed one did not have it available when it came time to order.you could argue diminished value of your car

[Pelerojo]

A couple of thoughts.....

I had an aftermarket top put on my '98 about five years ago and it looked good. The indy I used did not use a prefabricated top but made it on site. He gave me the option of the size of the window and the option of green or clear plastic glass. I paid $900 in FL.

If I were doing it again I would probably spring fro the extra $$ and buy an oem from a discount dealer and find an indy to install. labor is a big chunck of the price and dealers are going to be way more per hour.

On the bright side, you will get all new bows and strings for the mechanics either way (called the install kit on an oem and is extra). I also think you should be able to get the insurance company to pay for an oem top or show that the aftermarket one have the same exact specs (materials, plastic, zip in window, etc). It should be comparable in every respect.

[vivo]

I would tell the adjuster that the top made by BMW has been designed properly. If they insist on putting an aftermarket kit top on your car, then can you expect Liberty Mutual to offer you a written document stating Liberty Mutual will be responsible for loss of use, any and all damages resulting from misfit, leaks and any and all circumstances in which failure of the top causes damage to your vehicle, other vehicles and or pedestrian?. If he says they will not do that then tell him you bought an automobile designed by BMW and if Liberty Mutual wants to design and construct automobiles then they should do so but it carries certain liabilities. Then call him a Jackass and tell him you want the car repaired pronto! Ok, I added the Jackass, don't say that... thinking it is ok... and mention you belong to a large internet forum and we are all waiting to hear how good Liberty Mutual is to their customers. Saying you have already crafted a letter to mail to corporate is always a nice jab... it should be fun... now get out there and throw your weight around.......

But seriously, I would expect Liberty Mutual to be responsible for any and all damages causes by retrofitting a NON STANDARD factory top NOT designed by BMW.

Phil

[nikster22]

You guys are all great! Thanks so much for the input.

I think plan A is stick to my guns about the OEM top, and explain why the non-OEM is not an acceptable substitute (provided these jokers ever get around to calling me back, which they have not done yet). If they won't budge, I'll threaten cancellation of both auto and home policies, and cap that with recommending that my alma mater NOT use Liberty Mutual for their group plan. Oddly enough, that is how I got mixed up with them in the first place! Lesson learned.

If that doesn't do it, I'll start digging into NYS insurance regulations. It's times like this that it would be nice if I practiced law for a living rather than writing code. Beyond that, I am wondering about taking whatever they'll give me, buying the OEM top kit, and doing it myself with the help of a friend who used to work at the local BMW dealer and has done a couple of tops. I really wasn't planning on sinking big dollars into this thing this year, let alone toward the end of the top-down driving season!

Also worth noting: The adjuster is contesting the amount of time BMW says is required to replace the top. The adjuster says 5 hours total to remove the old top and install the new, non-OEM one. BMW is saying 10-12 to uninstall the old top, uninstall the old straps, install new straps, and install the new top. 5 hours seems way short to me, especially for a non-OEM unit. Any thoughts?

[Pelerojo]

It took my shop about two hours to take it off and about 8 to fit it. They then let it sit in the sun for a day and spent an additional hour adjusting. Seems BMW is way closer. Your insurance company has clearly been mixing their meds. I would get another estimate from another dealer and or indy and show them they are crazy.

[spacecowboy]

Looks like I'm screwed...

The insurance company (Liberty Mutual) is refusing to pay the extra cost for the OEM top.

Not surprising at all from those clowns. This has been an issue with them for decades. I worked in the auto glass industry years ago & they always specified that they would not pay for OE glass. They didn't have an issue paying for the cheap non-OE or non-OEM glass that was the wrong size, shaped wrong, looked like shit as a finished product, & might leak. This resulted in the boss refusing to do business with them. It just wasn't worth the headaches they created for the business.

[z3forlife]

If you can get the indy to tell ins that the aftermarket top doesn't fit properly then ins. will have to provide oem top

[nikster22]

It took my shop about two hours to take it off and about 8 to fit it.

10+ hours is more like what I was thinking, too. 5 seems overly optimistic, to put it mildly!

Not surprising at all from those clowns. This has been an issue with them for decades.

Wish I'd asked around about this before signing up. They pulled the same thing when I had some hail damage on another vehicle that I wanted to get repaired at the dealer. My claim officer was actually pressuring me to just take the check so they could close the case and not have to pay any more. Obviously I said no way, but you can imagine people end up getting boned by that every day!

I am certainly considering getting a second opinion soon. I may have caught a break on Friday. I spoke to the adjuster and made my case about the zip-in window. I took more of a "please hear me out because I'm being reasonable" approach (as apposed to flipping out) and I think progress was made so we will see what I hear tomorrow. Do any of you know whose decision it ultimately is? The person handling my claim or the adjuster? I really hate being at the mercy of these people (especially considering how much money I give them every year!) but hopefully it will all be over soon and I'll have a new, properly-installed, OEM top.

Well, it looks like we've "made a deal" - I've got clearance for the OEM top, but put on by an independent. Ins is really harping on the number-of-hours discrepancy, mainly because the dealer is 12 hours @ $105 an hour. I called back the local indy who specializes in tops, and he said he would do the OEM one if that's what I want. He's only $70 an hour (though he, too, quoted 12+ hours to do it right - anyone seeing a trend here?) so hopefully that will satisfy LM and we can be done with this thing! I will update as soon as I get more info.

[nikster22]

Here's the latest: LM will pay for the OEM top and 6 hours labor at the indy. I have to make up the rest, plus the $1k deductible. Based on the 12-15 hour indy quote, that's ~6 to ~9 hrs * $70/hr = $420 to $630 additional out of pocket. Thanks, LM. My family and I will never do any business with you again.