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Ireland Engineering Posi - Lock toe/camber adjustment plates: http://www.iemotorsport.com/bmw/E30-...ekit-lock.html
I just placed an order for them, but I still have a pair of the eccentric type still in stock, so the current project's (S-54 ///M Coupe) owner will get a choice...
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OK so they may never move once set, but I can see them being a real pain to adjust initially.
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I have them now, and I don't know if I want to use them or not. I have another thread questioning them. I havent contacted Ireland to see what the application is but they are in their E-30 section parts. I cant see needing that much adjustment ever, unless you are making up for some really bent stuff.
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"Andrew" whom I talked to today, says they just haven't gotten them listed in the Z3 section; they're in the process of redoing the online catalog/purchasing feature.Originally Posted by albrazzi
Sim Simma
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Just out of curiosity, noting: "Kit fits 2002, E30 and E28/E24." - is our rear subframe really that similar to the 2002?
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Yes it is. And the cars before that, all the way back to the '62 BMW 1500.
Last edited by JoshS; 12-19-2011 at 11:40 PM.
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I'm curious what your opinion is after (maybe) installing this style, if you choose the older style I would like to know. Along with other considerations it would seem the more the geometry is changed with adjustments the more binding or (stiction) any bushing will experience. The change in these angles will at some point preclude adjustment at all. As I exchange and measure parts on a bench Jig I have made I am finding what I thought was bent parts is more worn bushings that only need minimal adjustment to align even when lowering(after upgrading parts of course).
Obviously i have a lot of time to ponder this since the season is over here and I have no plans to do the Florida Tracks this year.
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Randy, what is your feeling toward these? any ideas yet... I know you probably havnt recvd them just yet. I need to place an order to do my subframe stuf during this holiday break from work. Go with these or the old eccentric type?
NASA Geek
I JUST had my rear subframe done using the eccentrics and I saw this and initially thought "damn, figures I just finished.". But looking at these, like SunzOut said not moving once positioned, but they look like a pain to adjust compared to the eccentrics and also once they rust a little even more of a pain to seat. And forget painting them.
I'm kinda preferring the eccentrics.
~Mike....
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We'll see; I'm going to use the serrated ones on the current S-54 ///M Coupe project. A couple days ago, I received ANOTHER S-54 ///M Coupe (with awesome looking fresh semi-matte/pearlescent white paint job) that is also getting rear toe/camber kits put in. Interestingly enough, this one has a true spring coil over the rear shock suspension; I will be reinforcing the rear shock towers and providing a brace between them. The owner would like me to do a rollbar too, but I've already packed up that piece of equipment into a shipping container...
BTW, BOTH of these Coupes are being set up primarily for track day fun.
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Yea, time will tell once there are some of both out there, I have inquired on the E30 forums for some thoughts but nothing yet, maybe I'm in the wrong place. Randy; I believe you said you always use the OEM TABs is that correct, even on a Track set up.
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Would these kits (toe and camber) when properly applied increase the tire life of a Roadster?
Are there any pictures available of the kits installed?
Thanks
Rudy
Member
If you're getting short tire life because of wearing through the tread on the inside of the tire, due to excessive negative camber, then yes they will increase tire life.
If your tires are wearing evenly across the tread but not getting the mileage you expect, then the only solution is to lay off the throttle...
I have plenty of pictures, but please forgive me for not looking for them tonight...
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Randy, thanks for the kind words on my paint job.
If you haven't come to a conclusion on the newer style I'll be happy to try them out. Once set I don't think I'll be doing to many adjustments to the rear settings, and the car won't be stored outside so I'm not to concerned about them rusting. I'm OK either way.
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Well, after doing some preliminary checking last night, the serrated type will allow for considerably more adjustment range. How much is actually useful is yet to be determined though.
The one (1) thing that was imediately obvious, is that the inboard pair (for camber adjustment) would foul the bottom of the fuel tank if they're installed as shipped. I plan to mill off the excess from each end (of four__4__pieces) to gain approximately 1/2" clearance.
While this isn't a deal-breaker for me, I just want to point it out for anyone else that's considering them__DO NOT install them "as is" or you'll undoubtedly rub holes in the bottom of the plastic fuel tank!
In the future, unless an extreme misalignment case requires the serrated type, I'll stick with the eccentric ones (the hdwr for which is sourced from 5-Series suspensions).
Member
Well, after doing some preliminary checking last night, the serrated type will allow for considerably more adjustment range. How much is actually useful is yet to be determined though.
The one (1) thing that was imediately obvious, is that the inboard pair (for camber adjustment) would foul the bottom of the fuel tank if they're installed as shipped. I plan to mill off the excess from each end (of four__4__pieces) to gain approximately 1/2" clearance.
While this isn't a deal-breaker for me, I just want to point it out for anyone else that's considering them__DO NOT install them "as is" or you'll undoubtedly rub holes in the bottom of the plastic fuel tank!
In the future, unless an extreme misalignment case requires the serrated type, I'll stick with the eccentric ones (the hdwr for which is sourced from 5-Series suspensions).
Last edited by Randy Forbes; 12-28-2011 at 09:41 AM.
Member
Very interesting. I'd bet Ireland Engineering would consider a slight modification if they had that information provided to them.
Now in E92 M3 ZCP -- Absolute beast
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That's on my todo list
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Good morning Randy, it's Andrew.
Interesting to note the height, the E30, 2002 have plenty of room.
Here's a lowered E30 for example.
It would be my opinion (and I'm assuming yours) that if one felt it necessary to clearance these that by removing some material (a la' belt sander/grinder/etc.) it would be enough. The additional adjustment was added for the 2002/e30(and presumably z3) guys who are running full race cars and need all the adjustment possible.
As for adjusting, With the tension holding the threaded adjuster on you just need to loosen the inner bolt head (one wrench) thus backing the bolt out a bit. Arguably easier than dealing with the two hex heads (two wrenches) on the eccentric setup. Ketchup or Catsup I guess.
IE will still be selling the eccentric version for those wanting to go that route. I'll make note when writing the listing for you Z3 guys that the Camber side should be clearanced.
Couple other existing conversations.
http://www.r3vlimited.com/BOARD/showthread.php?t=230120
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1760367
Last edited by SkiFree; 12-28-2011 at 01:15 PM.
Member
I had a nice long conversation with Andrew and Jeff Ireland today and these kits are tried and true but also just recently available, which explains all the buzz here. There are some good write ups in the E21 forums here by the way.
If you look there, as well as their (IE) website you will see some variations of the design for the similar subframe cars, I am going to use these for sure and will report my install on the Forums. I saw Randys comments on clearance on the fuel tank and we all know how the subframes move around a bit and this should definitely be allowed for in the install. With all aftermarket installs (my words) you need to be aware of fitment issues and with should be able to achieve suitable clearance on the Camber kit by shortening it considerably, since at least on the Z3 application these kits have WAY more slot than you will ever need.
Ireland said they may mention this in their install instructions.
Member
Hi Andrew,Good morning Randy, it's Andrew.
Interesting to note the height, the E30, 2002 have plenty of room.
Here's a lowered E30 for example.
It would be my opinion (and I'm assuming yours) that if one felt it necessary to clearance these that by removing some material (a la' belt sander/grinder/etc.) it would be enough. The additional adjustment was added for the 2002/e30(and presumably z3) guys who are running full race cars and need all the adjustment possible.
As for adjusting, With the tension holding the threaded adjuster on you just need to loosen the inner bolt head (one wrench) thus backing the bolt out a bit. Arguably easier than dealing with the two hex heads (two wrenches) on the eccentric setup. Ketchup or Catsup I guess.
IE will still be selling the eccentric version for those wanting to go that route. I'll make note when writing the listing for you Z3 guys that the Camber side should be clearanced.
Couple other existing conversations.
http://www.r3vlimited.com/BOARD/showthread.php?t=230120
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1760367
For the sake of this installation, I wasn't concerned (hence the fact you didn't get a phone call about them
I had originally considered taking an equal amount off each end, but have since thought that I might cut it all off the "bottom" end (nearest the subframe) since the slot is plenty long.
On the one hand, and I haven't yet cut the subframe, but the longer slot may actually make doing the slot on the subframe easier (I'll illustrate this in the next day or so).
To summarize, I see advantages of the serrated version, and I'm hopeful that their installation will prove to be easier than the eccentric type, even with having to modify the inboard plates. But I do still like the eccentric ones; it's good to have a choice!
Member
I have a feeling doing the actual adjustments may just be easier with the eccentrics. You just loosen the nut, turn a bolt, and you're good to go. I haven't really had any issues with them coming loose. You just really need to crank them down.
With these, it looks like you'll have to pry the control arm into place, somehow hold it there, and then tighten the bolt while it's in place. It also sounds like you'll have to fight the bushings' compliance to do this, where as you can just use a longer wrench with the eccentrics to overcome any additional resistance. Just my .02 from my observations.
Ultimately, I see most racers going with the eccentrics. A lot of people have shaved subframe bushings to bring the subframe closer to the car, and the clearance will definitely be an issue.
Last edited by LAWLence; 12-29-2011 at 03:30 AM.
Member
Any updates on these ?. Decided to do my camber/toe kits to save my tires while I save pennies for diff mount reinforcement . Which type is the most easy to deal with and which is more reliable , also how much should be shave off the posi style for gas tanks clearance?. I plan on removing the subframe and taking it to a shop to get these welded on so car wont be there to test fit .Pics of the finished installation would be much appreciated .
Thanks.
Last edited by yash; 01-17-2013 at 08:17 PM.
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Update? Okay, they're not the best choice for a Z3/M chassis, unless you're running a fuel cell in the trunk.
Your opinion may vary.
Member
I have the serrated ones and they were (so far) set and forget for me. I guess I was swayed by the few E30 guys who said they would never use the eccentrics because they slip, and that's what Ireland shipped me, I didn't know they existed until they showed me where they were on their website.
For a tried and true typical install the eccentrics are probably a better choice. Note, I did double nut mine, maybe not necessary but there was room so I did, and no way will they move,, ever.
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