Water leaks

[spacecowboy]

I did quite a bit of reading the last few days about the typical places for leaks to originate from. It appears that I have multiple sources to track down after yesterdays hard rain.

I sopped up a lot of water from behind both seats. There was a water stain around the front of the lower drivers door & the mat & carpet were damp in the drivers foot well. The trunk was not spared. The carpeted trim piece attached to the trunk lid is wet. The carpeted trim panel on the drivers side is wet. Underneath that the antenna motor is wet. Both storage area wells have standing water. The trunk flloor, carpeted mat, & the carpeted cover over the rear trunk wall is wet. The only areas spared were the carpeted cover behind the CD changer, the passenger foot well floor, & the battery well.

I stripped the carpeted coverings out of the trunk area along with the tool trays. If it rains again I'll have a better idea where the water is coming in.

I'm going to order an antenna seal & 3rd brake light seal. The plugs along the top of the windshield frame need to be sealed. The door drains need to be checked also, along with the drains for the windshield. At least some of the variables will be eliminated.

Edit: I forgot to mention that it was parked in the driveway at a near 35-40° angle with the nose at the highest point.

[pangsterZ3]

I did quite a bit of reading the last few days about the typical places for leaks to originate from. It appears that I have multiple sources to track down after yesterdays hard rain.

I sopped up a lot of water from behind both seats. There was a water stain around the front of the lower drivers door & the mat & carpet were damp in the drivers foot well. The trunk was not spared. The carpeted trim piece attached to the trunk lid is wet. The carpeted trim panel on the drivers side is wet. Underneath that the antenna motor is wet. Both storage area wells have standing water. The trunk flloor, carpeted mat, & the carpeted cover over the rear trunk wall is wet. The only areas spared were the carpeted cover behind the CD changer, the passenger foot well floor, & the battery well.

I stripped the carpeted coverings out of the trunk area along with the tool trays. If it rains again I'll have a better idea where the water is coming in.

I'm going to order an antenna seal & 3rd brake light seal. The plugs along the top of the windshield frame need to be sealed. The door drains need to be checked also, along with the drains for the windshield. At least some of the variables will be eliminated.

eek!! - sounds like you've got your work cut out!!

this might help with the third brake light gasket though:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...&postcount=188

Good luck!

[cngizbleevng]

My wife's Z has a similar problem. Not in the cockpit, but in the trunk and in the area where the softtop retracts. I'd already siliconed the 3rd brake light thinking that was the problem, but no dice. I'm assuming it's getting in around the rear of the canvas to soak the softtop area, but I can't figure out how it's getting into the trunk.

[spacecowboy]

eek!! - sounds like you've got your work cut out!!

this might help with the third brake light gasket though:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...&postcount=188

Good luck!

Thanks for the link. The carpeted area where the top folds into was dry to the touch. I'm hoping the areas I touched on earlier are the culprits. I did silicon the triangle areas on the top of the windshield this evening. There were gaps in the seal on both sides.

My wife's Z has a similar problem. Not in the cockpit, but in the trunk and in the area where the softtop retracts. I'd already siliconed the 3rd brake light thinking that was the problem, but no dice. I'm assuming it's getting in around the rear of the canvas to soak the softtop area, but I can't figure out how it's getting into the trunk.

I'm really hoping that's not an area responsible for the trunk leak. I did find a thread concerning sealing that area. It was a PITA to do properly. The OP in that thread tried to do it different ways before having to dismantle a lot in order to replace the factory butyl sealant.

An odd thing about this top is that after a heavy rain it feels damp to the touch on the inside. It's either condensation from the floor, or the top material is not completely waterproof.

[grndslm]

Toss a kid in the trunk and hose him down.

[Kdow1]

Thanks for the link. The carpeted area where the top folds into was dry to the touch. I'm hoping the areas I touched on earlier are the culprits. I did silicon the triangle areas on the top of the windshield this evening. There were gaps in the seal on both sides.



I'm really hoping that's not an area responsible for the trunk leak. I did find a thread concerning sealing that area. It was a PITA to do properly. The OP in that thread tried to do it different ways before having to dismantle a lot in order to replace the factory butyl sealant.

An odd thing about this top is that after a heavy rain it feels damp to the touch on the inside. It's either condensation from the floor, or the top material is not completely waterproof.

I've had the same leak on the driver's side floor mat for months now. Could you possibly post a picture of this area that you siliconed? I've having the windshield looked at tomorrow for potential replacement as i'm hoping that will solve my problem. But maybe this will work!

[spacecowboy]

I've had the same leak on the driver's side floor mat for months now. Could you possibly post a picture of this area that you siliconed?

I can do that. I took quite a few of all of the areas. I only have them pre-silicone at the moment. The area is the triangle shaped plug with the crack on one side. I filled all 3 sides lightly so that water couldn't enter the crack.

I also adjusted the tension on the top latches so that they wouldn't be so hard to latch anymore. I'm not sure if an over-compressed seal would leak, but if it helps the upside is less trouble buttoning it down.

Does this website automatically resize images?

[ryanzak]

Just dealt with the infamous trunk leak not too long ago... The butyl rubber sealant at the attachment point of the top to the rear rain rail was the problem. I found a good local trim shop and they only charged me 125 to redo the entire seal at the base of the top. I did not want to deal with the butyl rubber sealant, its horribly messy... But essential.. If you want to check that, pull out the carpet behind the seats, top up, exposing the rail of screws holding the top down... Have someone run a hose along the rubber seal under the rear window and over the window.. it may be one or both. also check the gutter at each corner make sure they are not clogged. Hope this helps.

[LUCI3N]

I can do that. I took quite a few of all of the areas. I only have them pre-silicone at the moment. The area is the triangle shaped plug with the crack on one side. I filled all 3 sides lightly so that water couldn't enter the crack.

I did the same thing to mine. My wife's roof has been leaking since she bought the car new, and even the dealer never fixed it. She would get a inch of water in the floor of her car, and it was all coming from those two 'plugs'. You can see one of the in the photo that spacecowboy uploaded.

From what I've read, those little plugs are supposed to divert all the water going into the roof line, down and into a channel on the door. After a short time, the plugs shrink and all the water starts going into the door trim and into the cabin.

I use a black silicon to seal it up; about $6 for a tube from Autozone. I didn't do the cleanest job in the world, but it worked! Even after the 10" of rain the just dumped on LA, my wife's car is bone dry. It hasn't leaked a single drop.

I just took a photo of what it looks like finished, but I'm too new to the forum to upload photos yet.

[Kdow1]

I can do that. I took quite a few of all of the areas. I only have them pre-silicone at the moment. The area is the triangle shaped plug with the crack on one side. I filled all 3 sides lightly so that water couldn't enter the crack.

I also adjusted the tension on the top latches so that they wouldn't be so hard to latch anymore. I'm not sure if an over-compressed seal would leak, but if it helps the upside is less trouble buttoning it down.

Does this website automatically resize images?

Damn. I filled those months ago and it still leaks. I thought maybe you were referring to something else. I was hoping so anyways.

[spacecowboy]

also check the gutter at each corner make sure they are not clogged. Hope this helps.

Is there a drain there? Where does it exit? That would be another place to look for a clogged drain.

I found this today seal out of place in both sides, more so on the drivers side. I stretched it back in to place & slid the trim piece back over it.

[LUCI3N]

Damn. I filled those months ago and it still leaks. I thought maybe you were referring to something else. I was hoping so anyways.

Well, there was a 'Plan B' that I came up with, but never had to use (since my Plan A worked).

There is a large 'screw' (for lack of a better word) that controls the forward/backward seating of the convertible top. You could be leaking through the seals around the front or windows because it doesn't seal tight enough. You can adjust this 'screw' to move the top forward so it presses against the seals tighter.

This adjusting rod/screw is somewhere in the back near the base of the top. I read about it a long time ago, but unfortunately I can give exact details about it (from personal experience).

[Kdow1]

Well, there was a 'Plan B' that I came up with, but never had to use (since my Plan A worked).

There is a large 'screw' (for lack of a better word) that controls the forward/backward seating of the convertible top. You could be leaking through the seals around the front or windows because it doesn't seal tight enough. You can adjust this 'screw' to move the top forward so it presses against the seals tighter.

This adjusting rod/screw is somewhere in the back near the base of the top. I read about it a long time ago, but unfortunately I can give exact details about it (from personal experience).

With my luck, i'd move the damn thing forward and then the back would start to leak. I've read hours of information on this leak from this forum and others and everything points to the A pillar seal, but i've already dealt with that. I know the leak is somehow going through the door and into the trim pieces on the door sill but how it's getting there is still a mystery. Demon car!!!

[Vigilante]

With my luck, i'd move the damn thing forward and then the back would start to leak. I've read hours of information on this leak from this forum and others and everything points to the A pillar seal, but i've already dealt with that. I know the leak is somehow going through the door and into the trim pieces on the door sill but how it's getting there is still a mystery. Demon car!!!

Poor Katie...there is a fix but it means upgrading to the M...

[Kdow1]

Poor Katie...there is a fix but it means upgrading to the M...

PSSHHHH!!! My car is MUCH better looking than yours. And i'll gladly sacrifice being dry than to ride around in a car that has been tainted by it's license plate.


Alright. That wasn't very nice of me. Your car is... Cute...

[ryanzak]

Is there a drain there? Where does it exit? That would be another place to look for a clogged drain.

I found this today seal out of place in both sides, more so on the drivers side. I stretched it back in to place & slid the trim piece back over it.

With the top up, look just next to the seatbelt tower (the furthest forward point of the top compartment, just on the other side of the top where your pictures are taken), there is a metal box with a hole in the side of it to access a bolt.. water runs along the bottom of the top and some goes inside through the gutter and through a drain under the car. The previous owner had the top fixed prior to me and the little box was bent almost flat and was responsible for some of the water collecting back there.

[spacecowboy]

Access to that spot is really hard. I was able to stick a camera in there & blindly take some pictures to see what the area looked like. At first I thought there was an issue with a bolt missing because of what appeared to be 2 misaligned holes in picture one. The picture suggests otherwise. Is picture two the drain area?

[spacecowboy]

It's raining today, but unfortunately not hard enough yet. I'd like to see what occurs during the natural cycle (rain) versus a man-made one (hose). The reason for this is that when the VW was under warranty 4 trips to the dealership resulted in no fix of the water leak in to my hatch. Each time they used a hose & declared it leak free. Out of warranty I fixed it myself & a hose was not used in the process. A hose does have it's use in some cases, but the real sneaky leaks seem to be immune to the hose procedure. A gaping hole is another thing.

[spacecowboy]

It stopped raining, the front floor is dry & so is the behind the seat areas. It did leak in to the trunk though. I found at least one entry point, the passenger side grommet. The triangles, rear drains?, I asked about earlier also contain water. It really didn't rain hard enough to truly test the seal area I repaired earlier in the week.

[cngizbleevng]

spacecowboy, I appreciate the updates--your suggestions will help me track my leaks down.

[SWISS]

My wife's Z has a similar problem. Not in the cockpit, but in the trunk and in the area where the softtop retracts. I'd already siliconed the 3rd brake light thinking that was the problem, but no dice. I'm assuming it's getting in around the rear of the canvas to soak the softtop area, but I can't figure out how it's getting into the trunk.

Brake light and tail light gasket will mess you up, also the wear marks from years of top up/top down will wear through the water seal lining on the soft top exposing canvas which allows the water to seep through, in combination I had some pretty wet floor boards. Also I had a stretch band wire tie pulled out on one side. Tops are not bad if you self install. Plan on spending ~ 650 to DIY with a Robbins less for an EZ up.

[spacecowboy]

spacecowboy, I appreciate the updates--your suggestions will help me track my leaks down.

Cool. I've been putting in a couple of hours a day over the last few days searching for an answer. The problem is that the answers I've found are in individual threads & not combined in to one thread or post, & there's still plenty of information missing. Maybe this thread will finally be the one that has most of the answers in it, & will help people in the future be able to find a solution much faster.

The latest bit of info is that the triangles in the rear are supposed to have drain tubes diverting water outside the body. I couldn't find any more specific info or pictures of this, so I'll have to keep searching or find them myself & take pictures.

[spacecowboy]

I looked in the triangles & tried to find the drain hole but couldn't. Running a fingertip in there revealed nothing. I then searched underneath to see if I could find the exit. No obvious drain hoses & feeling around underneath found nothing. I'll have to search for the exits the next time I have it jacked up in the air.

After more research I found a conflicting piece of information. There aren't drain holes inside the triangles, the spot is to hold the odd run off of rain water & disappears through evaporation. Both sides rubber seals are there for the access hole to the bolt in the triangle area. The Z4 has drain holes according to the same source, I did see pictures, & are easily clogged by leaves. From reading searched information it appears the Z4 also has water leak issues.

I'm going to have to settle the issue the next time I'm underneath the roadster. I'm either going to find drains under there or I wont find anything.

[spacecowboy]

It started raining on & off, plus hard at times, since yesterday afternoon. The good news is that the cabin is dry from the foot wells to underneath the seats. The front triangle seal fix worked. It's amazing how much water a small crack can let in. The bad news is that the trunk has water in it. It's dripping down from the middle of the wiring harness. Not as bad as last time, but it rained much harder then.

[cngizbleevng]

I have the carpet out of my wife's Z3, including the carpet where the softtop retracts. It looks to me as though water is getting in at the base of the softtop at the rear. It then sits in the area the softtop folds down, and appears to be able to trickle into the trunk....

So, is the area behind your roll hoops damp? There could be water getting in under the carpet there that isn't soaking into the carpet material, so it might be tough to tell without removing the carpet there as well.

I haven't had a chance to test this yet, but my suspicions are moving in that direction.