Tuning Tips for your System

[one]

Hi gang, I used to own car audio stores a few years back and got bored tonight and typed up a few tuning tips for you guy's to try out. These tips will allow you to get the most out of your system and are guaranteed to get your system to do it's maximum potential. Unless your system is professionally tuned by someone who knows their stuff very well, these tips will absolutely get you higher Db and better sound quality by making your system more efficient.

**disclaimer, if you screw your stuff up don't whine, you didn't follow directions**

Go into your trunk and turn everything all the way down. go to your headunit and turn everything halfway.

Anytime you boost a signal it takes twice the power to produce the signal. boosting by +1 on your headunit makes a 3db difference. every 3 db cuts your power in HALF because it takes twice the power to produce that frequency at 3db higher.

With your amps all the way down, and your crossovers at half way on the amp, and your headunit at halfway on everything, turn your headunit up to 3/4 of the way on the volume knob. if you are not running amps on your mids, turn the head unit up until the mids are nearing, but not crossing over to distortion.

Go to the trunk. set your subwoofer crossover on 80 and your mid crossover on 160.

turn your midrange amp up until your mids are at full capacity, without distortion.
Do the same for the subwoofer.


Get into your car and DO NOT turn your bass boost up past halfway nor your treble. If you choose to do so, do not go more than one (+1) or you will have gone 6db thereby cutting your power in half TWICE. You will need to divide your power (watts) by 2 everytime you click +1 on your head unit's adjustments settings. now... why would you do that?

I recommend a setting of +1 on the mids if you usually turn it up farther past that. You should not need to do it on the bass, but you may go up by +1 on the bass if you cannot tune the sub in from the amp.


Now get in your car and put in your favorite music cd. How's that sound?


Since we are speaking of tuning, here's some more info for the masses.

EQ's -

Truely great EQ's do not boost at ALL. They do not even give you the option to boost into + numbers. They start at 0 and go negative. Some have built in crossovers, and slopes should be 24db per octave.

While tuning your system, it is likely that you have something in your car that goes into + numbers that you tune with. Treat it as if it does not have these numbers. In your mind envision your unit having only 0 (halfway) and negative numbers. To achieve the most power while still getting the proper sound curve you desire, (as your ears do not want a flat signal) where you would normally boost the treble, try cutting the midrange spectrum, and bass if needed.

Your only goal is to get the tweet above the rest in this situation. You don't want to boost or it will cost you lot's of valuable power. So instead we do the reverse. rather than boost the tweet, we cut the mids and bass. Works like a reverse mirror effect.

By cutting the strong points in the sound we boost the weak, see? However since we did not boost we did not use reserve power to cover the boost. Infact, we actually SAVED power by cutting area's where boost was too high! This will allow your speakers and amps to allocate more wattage to the speaker overall and have more power onhand to control the cone.

More cone control = less distortion = higher output volume capability!

[shhuang]

what does, "turn your crossover on your amps halfway down mean"... does this mean halfway down from where it was set at? halfway down from the maximum crossove frequency? high pass? low pass? i didn't have time to carefully read over this but a lot of this info seems... BAD for a newbie to try to "implement" for his system.

set the sub amp crossover at 80hz and the mids amp at 160? what plays 80-160?

(not a newb, just had a couple gripes, not trying to flame you or anything)

[one]

very easy for a newbie, just do it exactly as it says.

what plays 80-160?

resonance.

[shhuang]

uhh right..

[one]

yep

[shhuang]

btw.. not to hijack your thread, but how was the experience of running your own car stereo store? my car stereo is never finished, but, whats the fun in a hobby if you finish it right... lol

[one]

much funner as a hobby. business is business no matter what, but the whole experience was very fun. It makes you a more precise person from every aspect. I had been a mgr. for a few companies so i knew the business aspect, but the real high point of it all is just being able to walk in and understand "this is your life".

I was able to order anything i wanted to see if i liked it. I literally "played with it" for a week to see what all it could do, so i made quite a few opinions on things. overall, the best experience yet, i'd do it again with twice the stress just to be there once more.

I was just one of millions to lose a small business after 9/11.

[8675309]

What receivers would you recommend?

[one]

Some headunit's work better with certain setups. Depending on what your using the rest of the way, my favorite 4 IMO are:


Eclipse (very clear, clean, good vocals)
On the wrong setup, Eclipse can "lack balls"

Blaupunkt (super fast transit processing, overall power output) On the wrong setup, Blau's can appear too shrilly, squeaky, but always VERY loud headunits. My personal favorites are the skyline models.

Pioneer (massive power, excellent tuning features)
Pioneer makes headunts that sell for as little as $200 that drop loads of sound, the least expensive (deh-10) isn't a very serious radio, but is by far the best $100 cd player on the market.
They only get better from there. As the line goes up in numbers, the impression left is that Pioneer has done their homework on how to make a super loud headunit, and still keep everything peaking in the right spots.

Alpine- High output RCA's, Crystal clear sound, Strong bass output. Can shrill up the vocals quick if not tuned right due to a LOT of treble boosting capability.

What i didn't include that you may have expected:

Nakamichi - unless you spend $1k your not really getting a NAK.

Jvc- i have never heard one that didn't overprocess horribly, and cause distortion.

Panasonic- the worse example of how to muffle and shrill mids that has been produced yet. Also, the bass is "boomy" and weak compared to the three head units above. Low RCA voltage output.

[8675309]

Thanks for the rundown. Right now I'm planning to go with the Alpine 7894. It has the features I'm looking for (good output, mp3 and amber lighting) at a good price.

[westcp]

is it bad to have the gain on the amp for my subs at full? i have a clarion amp and 2 10" phoenix golds are running or the front channel and then i have one 10" titanium phoenix gold running off the rear channel, is this okay for the amp? also what is a good setting for the frequency of the treble?

[FriedKalamari]

whats your reasoning for leaving everything at half way? you can set anything on the head unit as you want before the gains are set. I would turn the volume up on the head unit almost as high as it goes, then set the gains, therefore u would have to turn the gains on the amp up less. for a starting point on the crossover id use about 80hz for ported wooofers, and 90-100ish hz for sealed woofers, after the gains are set it can be fine tuned.
For components it really depends, but i see no reason to start at 160hz. If u want the most out of the components as far as midbass goes, u have to go WAY lower than that, i used to run my crystal components at 80hz, and i believe this is critical to decide on before the gains are set, because they will get way louder when set at 160hz than something like 80hz, so if the gain is set at when the Xover is at 160hz and the user decides to bring it down then it will be distorting at a point when it previously wasnt. If setting the sub amp at 80hz and the mid amp at 160hz then youve got yourself a huge gap of no mibdass.....so not sure why you would want to do that either.

[00poop6x]

whats your reasoning for leaving everything at half way? you can set anything on the head unit as you want before the gains are set. I would turn the volume up on the head unit almost as high as it goes, then set the gains, therefore u would have to turn the gains on the amp up less. for a starting point on the crossover id use about 80hz for ported wooofers, and 90-100ish hz for sealed woofers, after the gains are set it can be fine tuned.
For components it really depends, but i see no reason to start at 160hz. If u want the most out of the components as far as midbass goes, u have to go WAY lower than that, i used to run my crystal components at 80hz, and i believe this is critical to decide on before the gains are set, because they will get way louder when set at 160hz than something like 80hz, so if the gain is set at when the Xover is at 160hz and the user decides to bring it down then it will be distorting at a point when it previously wasnt. If setting the sub amp at 80hz and the mid amp at 160hz then youve got yourself a huge gap of no mibdass.....so not sure why you would want to do that either.

Everything halfway on the headunit for power conservation for further cone control. The louder a loudspeaker can play the better it sounds, if powered efficiently. The gap is not much of a gap when you consider the slope of the cut off for the mids; not all frequencies are instantly muted below 160Hz, it's a slope and like he said, the resonance.

If you listen to lots of different types of music that requires such frequencies a graphic equalizer would be very handy. But don't abuse the EQ.

[FriedKalamari]

Everything halfway on the headunit for power conservation for further cone control. The louder a loudspeaker can play the better it sounds, if powered efficiently. The gap is not much of a gap when you consider the slope of the cut off for the mids; not all frequencies are instantly muted below 160Hz, it's a slope and like he said, the resonance.
.

power conservation and cone control? please explain.

[00poop6x]

power conservation and cone control? please explain.

For every 3 db you gain on a sound level it takes twice as much power to achieve that 3db gain, and every +/-3 db is supposedly one notch on the attenuator.....notice how it's called an attenuator. If you lower a 3db level you have twice as much power to create the sound making distortion a farter problem away. With more power you have greater cone control by the voice coil. Take a singer that is finishing his/her word, a word that ends in "p" like "stop." If you were to power that with 1 watt you wouldn't hear the "p" as well as if it were powered by 5 watts. Kind of like having a 5 hp grass trimmer compared to a 2 hp grass trimmer. The 2hp can put out 2hp for trimming grass, but wouldn't the 5hp have an easier to make 2hp of trimming and then some.

*EDIT* "farter"...."farther"

[FriedKalamari]

For every 3 db you gain on a sound level it takes twice as much power to achieve that 3db gain, and every +/-3 db is supposedly one notch on the attenuator.....notice how it's called an attenuator. If you lower a 3db level you have twice as much power to create the sound making distortion a farter problem away. With more power you have greater cone control by the voice coil. Take a singer that is finishing his/her word, a word that ends in "p" like "stop." If you were to power that with 1 watt you wouldn't hear the "p" as well as if it were powered by 5 watts. Kind of like having a 5 hp grass trimmer compared to a 2 hp grass trimmer. The 2hp can put out 2hp for trimming grass, but wouldn't the 5hp have an easier to make 2hp of trimming and then some.

*EDIT* "farter"...."farther"

your explanation is confusing as hell. what are these attenuators you are speakin of? Bass and treble set to + whatever are like bands of EQ for that frequncie range, so you would be boosting it...i agree its good to set everything to 0 but if someone wants to set it to + whatever then that is perfectly fine....just do it before the gains are set.

[Androulakis]

May I ask why you are leaving a midbass hole between 80hz and 160hz?

I know the crossover is on a slope, therefore its not complete attenuation, but any half decent midbass driver (assuming you have one since you are using an external amp to power it) should be able to play down to 120hz without any attenuation.

80hz might be a bit high depending on the enclosure, but it a good overall starting point.

What do you think of 80hz and 120hz as initial crossover points? It seems like 160 would cut a LOT of the lower end of the midbass out of the front stage, but would also increase the power handling of the component set dramatically.

Take care,

George

[Androulakis]

power conservation and cone control? please explain.

Cone control = the speaker is an electromagnet. The amp is using voltage to cause it to extend and retract at a specified frequency (number of times per second). As the voltage increases (more output power) the ability to control the cone decreases (because the cone is moving faster and with more force) therefore the cone tends to overshoot the mark, hence causing harmonic distortion. Its kind of like brakes on a car. If you are trolling along at 30 mph, its easy to come to a quick stop. If you are at 100+ suddenly its not so easy.

Power conservation = You dont want the amp running at 10 10ths the entire time, you want an amp that can comfortably provide the power you demand, yet leave headroom for peaks. Its like driving a car at 3k rpm and having the ability to rev to 6500 momentarily, v/s running the motor at redline the entire time (too small an amp being pushed too hard). Way too many people feel the gain is an additional volume control. The primary purpose of amplifier gains is to balance the output between different amplifers or channels. NOT an additional volume control.

Hope this clears things up,

George

[FriedKalamari]

Cone control = the speaker is an electromagnet. The amp is using voltage to cause it to extend and retract at a specified frequency (number of times per second). As the voltage increases (more output power) the ability to control the cone decreases (because the cone is moving faster and with more force) therefore the cone tends to overshoot the mark, hence causing harmonic distortion. Its kind of like brakes on a car. If you are trolling along at 30 mph, its easy to come to a quick stop. If you are at 100+ suddenly its not so easy.

Power conservation = You dont want the amp running at 10 10ths the entire time, you want an amp that can comfortably provide the power you demand, yet leave headroom for peaks. Its like driving a car at 3k rpm and having the ability to rev to 6500 momentarily, v/s running the motor at redline the entire time (too small an amp being pushed too hard). Way too many people feel the gain is an additional volume control. The primary purpose of amplifier gains is to balance the output between different amplifers or channels. NOT an additional volume control.

Hope this clears things up,

George

heh yeah i knew all that. i guess my argument was that keeping all the settings at half is not needed and can be upped as needed without losing control of the woofer, thats why i make the point of doing all the head unit settings FIRST then do the gains. a gain is actually a voltage level controller.....the higher the gain is set the quicker the amp will send out the max power....if the gain is set too high and starts sending a clipped signal then thats when the distortion is going to be happening.

[Androulakis]

heh yeah i knew all that. i guess my argument was that keeping all the settings at half is not needed and can be upped as needed without losing control of the woofer, thats why i make the point of doing all the head unit settings FIRST then do the gains. a gain is actually a voltage level controller.....the higher the gain is set the quicker the amp will send out the max power....if the gain is set too high and starts sending a clipped signal then thats when the distortion is going to be happening.

I agree with you that there is some more reasonable room than half way, but it is a good starting point, especially for newbies. I also agree that the head unit is the first thing you have to set, basically pick a point about 2/3 to 3/4 of the way up, and then make that from that point forward the effective maximum volume that you will use.

Now as far as the gain control, its not really a voltage level controller in the scope of controling output voltage as you describe. What it does is it is a potenciometer that attenuates the input voltage level of the RCA inputs. It can not turn them up (amplify the voltage) but can only turn them down.

The reason for this is that "line level" inputs are designed for an input voltage of 1.5 to 2v (at maximum output) many headunits especially newer ones put out 4 or ever 5 volt preouts. The reason for this is it makes the signal much more immune to inductive electrical noise, especially over the typical long runs in an extremely noisy electrical enviroment experienced in an automobile.

Because this is the case, it is very easy to overdrive an amp even at moderate head unit volume settings. You are correct though that the gain controls how quickly the amplifer makes its stated power, but it also controls what spectrum of the amplifiers power range you will typically be using. Turning up the gain is like shifting to a lower gear and maintaining the same road speed. The engine will have to work harder to maintain the same speed.

The key here is to have an amp working in the middle of its operating range, and not at the extreme to produce the listening levels you desire.

Now, you mention clipping. This is the ultimate form of distortion in which the amplifier can not supply the needed amount of current to properly control the speaker, so it sends an errant signal (because it ran out of juice), to the driver. Clipping is the most extreme form of distortion, and the most damaging to speakers and voice coils, but it is not the only form.

As any amplifer makes more power, the amount of distortion increases, that is why amplifiers are rated at a power output at a stated level of distortion, i.e. 100 watts @ xyz level of total harmonic distortion. This is the maximum amount of distortion the amplifier will introduce into the sound when making the stated power. At least reputable companies do this. The amp can and WILL make more power at a higher level of distortion, and it will also do so before clipping. The reason for the standard of distortion is that that amount of distortion (usually .01%) is considered inaudible to the human ear.

Now, lets take the case of a subwoofer playing a very limited spectrum of frequencies, lets also remember that the woofer is usually buried in the trunk or in the rear of the car at the very least, so it is much more difficult to hear distortion occuring. I would venture to say that most amateurly tuned systems are introducing much more distortion than the .01% at the stated power by running the gains (or the headunit) too high.

There is never such a thing as too much available power in an audio system, due to the simple fact that you aren't forced to use it. The more available power, the more headroom you have, the cooler the amps will run, and the less overall distortion the system will have. Underpowered amps that loose control of the woofer are much more likely to damage it then sending more than the rated amount of clean power through it.

Take care,

George

[00poop6x]

What you want to do is leave them as close to 0 as possible to have the music be reproduced at it's natural recording, not wanting to bring the freq levels over that recorded level. Let's say you decrease bass below 0, then amplifying the whole signal will automatically give the mids and highs a chance to stand out naturally since bass is already below 0 while the others are at 0. A BOOST anywhere would mean a lot more power will be used up to reproduce your boosted freq that was not recorded naturally AT the attenuated level, increasing the distortion chance of your boost. Doesn't mean it's wrong to set treble to +7 or what you please though, just there are other ways to make it stand out.

Nothing is mentioned about losing woofer control with + bass...just how you can utilize power to have MORE control.

Attenuation is the term for your volume knob, it's the control of how muted the signal is without the distortion. Think of the unit as a machine that plays to full power all the time with 100% distortion, that knob is how you control how much distortion and how mute you want the unit to be. On the amplifier, it's what it is; amplifies the pre-amp signal, a gain in voltage reception. Not the one to attenuate it. I apologize if you can't understand this.

[00poop6x]

I agree with you that there is some more reasonable room than half way, but it is a good starting point, especially for newbies. I also agree that the head unit is the first thing you have to set, basically pick a point about 2/3 to 3/4 of the way up, and then make that from that point forward the effective maximum volume that you will use.

Now as far as the gain control, its not really a voltage level controller in the scope of controling output voltage as you describe. What it does is it is a potenciometer that attenuates the input voltage level of the RCA inputs. It can not turn them up (amplify the voltage) but can only turn them down.

The reason for this is that "line level" inputs are designed for an input voltage of 1.5 to 2v (at maximum output) many headunits especially newer ones put out 4 or ever 5 volt preouts. The reason for this is it makes the signal much more immune to inductive electrical noise, especially over the typical long runs in an extremely noisy electrical enviroment experienced in an automobile.

Because this is the case, it is very easy to overdrive an amp even at moderate head unit volume settings. You are correct though that the gain controls how quickly the amplifer makes its stated power, but it also controls what spectrum of the amplifiers power range you will typically be using. Turning up the gain is like shifting to a lower gear and maintaining the same road speed. The engine will have to work harder to maintain the same speed.

The key here is to have an amp working in the middle of its operating range, and not at the extreme to produce the listening levels you desire.

Now, you mention clipping. This is the ultimate form of distortion in which the amplifier can not supply the needed amount of current to properly control the speaker, so it sends an errant signal (because it ran out of juice), to the driver. Clipping is the most extreme form of distortion, and the most damaging to speakers and voice coils, but it is not the only form.

As any amplifer makes more power, the amount of distortion increases, that is why amplifiers are rated at a power output at a stated level of distortion, i.e. 100 watts @ xyz level of total harmonic distortion. This is the maximum amount of distortion the amplifier will introduce into the sound when making the stated power. At least reputable companies do this. The amp can and WILL make more power at a higher level of distortion, and it will also do so before clipping. The reason for the standard of distortion is that that amount of distortion (usually .01%) is considered inaudible to the human ear.

Now, lets take the case of a subwoofer playing a very limited spectrum of frequencies, lets also remember that the woofer is usually buried in the trunk or in the rear of the car at the very least, so it is much more difficult to hear distortion occuring. I would venture to say that most amateurly tuned systems are introducing much more distortion than the .01% at the stated power by running the gains (or the headunit) too high.

There is never such a thing as too much available power in an audio system, due to the simple fact that you aren't forced to use it. The more available power, the more headroom you have, the cooler the amps will run, and the less overall distortion the system will have. Underpowered amps that loose control of the woofer are much more likely to damage it then sending more than the rated amount of clean power through it.

Take care,

George

You beat me to it.

[FriedKalamari]

I agree with you that there is some more reasonable room than half way, but it is a good starting point, especially for newbies. I also agree that the head unit is the first thing you have to set, basically pick a point about 2/3 to 3/4 of the way up, and then make that from that point forward the effective maximum volume that you will use.

Now as far as the gain control, its not really a voltage level controller in the scope of controling output voltage as you describe. What it does is it is a potenciometer that attenuates the input voltage level of the RCA inputs. It can not turn them up (amplify the voltage) but can only turn them down.

The reason for this is that "line level" inputs are designed for an input voltage of 1.5 to 2v (at maximum output) many headunits especially newer ones put out 4 or ever 5 volt preouts. The reason for this is it makes the signal much more immune to inductive electrical noise, especially over the typical long runs in an extremely noisy electrical enviroment experienced in an automobile.

Because this is the case, it is very easy to overdrive an amp even at moderate head unit volume settings. You are correct though that the gain controls how quickly the amplifer makes its stated power, but it also controls what spectrum of the amplifiers power range you will typically be using. Turning up the gain is like shifting to a lower gear and maintaining the same road speed. The engine will have to work harder to maintain the same speed.

The key here is to have an amp working in the middle of its operating range, and not at the extreme to produce the listening levels you desire.

Now, you mention clipping. This is the ultimate form of distortion in which the amplifier can not supply the needed amount of current to properly control the speaker, so it sends an errant signal (because it ran out of juice), to the driver. Clipping is the most extreme form of distortion, and the most damaging to speakers and voice coils, but it is not the only form.

As any amplifer makes more power, the amount of distortion increases, that is why amplifiers are rated at a power output at a stated level of distortion, i.e. 100 watts @ xyz level of total harmonic distortion. This is the maximum amount of distortion the amplifier will introduce into the sound when making the stated power. At least reputable companies do this. The amp can and WILL make more power at a higher level of distortion, and it will also do so before clipping. The reason for the standard of distortion is that that amount of distortion (usually .01%) is considered inaudible to the human ear.

Now, lets take the case of a subwoofer playing a very limited spectrum of frequencies, lets also remember that the woofer is usually buried in the trunk or in the rear of the car at the very least, so it is much more difficult to hear distortion occuring. I would venture to say that most amateurly tuned systems are introducing much more distortion than the .01% at the stated power by running the gains (or the headunit) too high.

There is never such a thing as too much available power in an audio system, due to the simple fact that you aren't forced to use it. The more available power, the more headroom you have, the cooler the amps will run, and the less overall distortion the system will have. Underpowered amps that loose control of the woofer are much more likely to damage it then sending more than the rated amount of clean power through it.

Take care,

George

[rcurley55]

I think one of the most overlooked parts of tuning (including this suggestion) is to start with phase adjustments. Crossover points, slopes (steeper is not always better), and level matching should go first....way before even considering touching an EQ

May I ask why you are leaving a midbass hole between 80hz and 160hz?

Depending on your car and you mid's location, you can get a lot of cabin gain in this area...so underlapping is sometimes required for even sound.

What do you think of 80hz and 120hz as initial crossover points? It seems like 160 would cut a LOT of the lower end of the midbass out of the front stage, but would also increase the power handling of the component set dramatically.

Typically I like to start around 70-90Hz for my midbass high pass...depending on the size of the driver this can go down or up. Anything from above 150 or so becomes localizable, where pathlenghts become importatn for imaging cues. This also depends on what kind of subwoofer system you have - large IB drivers, for example, will not play high enough to blend well with a high x-over point on the mids (i.e. 160). You have to take the whole system into account and try out different settings.

[Androulakis]

I think one of the most overlooked parts of tuning (including this suggestion) is to start with phase adjustments. Crossover points, slopes (steeper is not always better), and level matching should go first....way before even considering touching an EQ



Depending on your car and you mid's location, you can get a lot of cabin gain in this area...so underlapping is sometimes required for even sound.



Typically I like to start around 70-90Hz for my midbass high pass...depending on the size of the driver this can go down or up. Anything from above 150 or so becomes localizable, where pathlenghts become importatn for imaging cues. This also depends on what kind of subwoofer system you have - large IB drivers, for example, will not play high enough to blend well with a high x-over point on the mids (i.e. 160). You have to take the whole system into account and try out different settings.

I didnt even mention an eq... We were just discussing the basics of setting the gains, and leaving the tone controls alone.

I agree there is much more to tuning a system than what was discussed here, but I guess what you brought up was the next step, the final one being an eq. Most of us dont have crossover slope adjustments on tap, although phase is easily adjusted.

The other thing we have to consider here is the ear doesnt like a naturally flat response curve, sure it wins points on the RTA, but how many people do you know with different eq settings for RTA, and sq?

Interesting you say that about the xover frequencies, I thought 160 which was the orginal poster's suggestion was way too high...

As far as 150hz being locallized, I have two orion xtr series II 10" subs, and I cross them over around 85hz because anything higher than that and they become localized to me, as I can source the origin of the midbass.

I cross my boston components at about 100hz, they do ok down there, and the music seems to be very balanced, and not un naturally punchy or boomy.

I don't have an eq in my system, all my xover points are 12db / octave (well except for the ones on the boston passive xovers I think the mid - tweet xover is 18db, not sure). Everything is wired in phase.

I also have a ton of power on tap, and my head unit never goes past 1/2.

Your mileage may vary.

George