some people are just dumb

[Hugo]

Originally posted by 00MRoadster
I haven't had my car in my possession for last 3 1/2 months...

Why?

[Hugo]

Boy I read that thread, what a loser, the LS454 guy... Way to welcome somebody...

[bimmerpwr]

More than half of that time was spent on waiting for parts to come from Osh and rest of the time is being spent at a local shop for installation and tuning. I will have to write a book if I want to give all the details.

Sorry for off topic!

[SilverStreak]

Yeah, he's a real charmer, friendly site they got there.... : He's wrong about a million things, too. The Cobra he speaks of was the 99 Cobra, about $27K, not $38K. Heck, only the 03 Cobra Vert might run $38K... and it is way under-rated at 390 bhp.

The 02 M Coupe is rated from BMW at 315 bhp, and most guys have been dynoing close to the S54 M3 folks around 275-290 rwhp. That guy obviously has no clue as the differences in bhp and rwhp.

And the time in question, was the one I got in the loaner S54 M Roadster in June 2001, 12.56 at 109.1 mph, bone stock down to the tires. A car I no longer have access to, but if the doubters over there wanna see me run sometime at Atco, I'll gladly being my Z3 3.0 S/C for them to see...

[speedr]

I have killed 3 stock 03 Cobra in my stock S54 M Roadster. the press 03 Cobra's were under-rated at 390 bhp not the one's going to the public.

Stock 03 are EZ kills for a good driver in a S54.

[HybridM30Coupe]

Bottom line, go race the guy in the caprice for pink slips. Or get really bold and ask him to race his german car.

I'm a member from that muscle car forum, the only member aside from eurorides there with a bimmer. It's more of a social place than anything. I've met some good friends there and I continue to selectively post and listen, etc.

After visiting here at the request of eurorides, I like what I see. I just wish we had some common ground. Me, highly modifying a 30 year old design single-wobble-stick M30, and y'all with some seriously complicated S-Fifty-Whatever engines. VANOS? We don't need no steenking vanos!

Oh, and to the guy with the supertrapp, want a spare? I've got one off my dearly departed e12 sitting in my garage and a spare core to boot. $35 or best offer ;-)

Nice meeting y'all. curious if anyone here thinks they could learn something from an old american iron owner...because no matter what you say about style, grace and handling...we have the last laugh on the street when the pushrod v8's attached to the end of our right foot. 12's??? Those are embarassing to a musclecar owner. Ask me how, I ran 12.20s last summer...so i'm spending part of this summer putting that engine into a jaguar. Then on to the gas guzzlin 500+rwhp BBC.

so who's the chassis pro around here?

jason - the guy with the ugliest '64 el camino on earth...and:
Project Junkyard Turbohund '75 BMW 3.0 CS Turbo ... nothing to challenge ones abilities like a rusty unitbody heap.

[MCoupeS54IR]

It seems to be an arguement over there about the output of current engines. I see guys here at this site seem to range from 260-290 hp on a chassis dyno with engines rated at 315 from the factory. I have to agree with the guy over there, you are missing some hp. I have taken mine to a dyno shop in the Orange County (So Cal) area that also does Dinan work to see were my coupe already was and I came out with 317hp and yes it is all stock with the exception of a K&N in the stock airbox. I have to say they are close to sea level and I waited until the winter time for nice cold air with optimum weather conditions. The guy running the dyno says he sees most of them in that area depending on weather, maybe dropping to 305-310 during warmer summer months. The best part is my dealer arranged everything for me since the two guys that run the shop used to be techs at the dealer and they still work closely together with them, they do all the dealers Dinan work. I wanted a base number for my engine since I am considering a supercharger for it here in the near future. So I wanted to get a good before and after reading of my rating, my next step is taking it to a San Diego drag strip to see what kind of number it actually runs before I do anything. I'm encouraged by some of the numbers I see here, especially the 12.56, even a low 13 would be nice. This car pulls awesome, I too have smoked some of the Cobras with no problem and the newer C5 Vettes wich are almost more fun. However, I had one loss which is a little embarassing but doubt it would happen again. I got my ass handed to me by a older dark green bug, all stock looking, with his kid in the passenger seat laughing as he pulled away from me. Just wait until that supercharger is on!

[SilverStreak]

Welcome to BimmerForums, HybridM30Coupe & MCoupeS54IR! Nice to have you here in our midst.

You'll find that we are a pretty friendly bunch here, and I hope you enjoy your stay.

Hybrid, I'm an old muscle car guy myself, I come from Mustangs, Camaros, T-birds, old 70's Mopar cars, etc, and even drag raced an F150 on occasion. I'm a bit of an anomaly amongst my BMW brethren in that I'm a drag racer, not an Auto-Xer or Road Course guy.

I've been drag racing since 1986 or thereabouts. So I have the utmost respect for old American Iron, believe me. A good friend of mine is rebuilding his ERA Cobra kit car, swapping out the 460 for a 514, cuz he couldn't break out of the 10's with the 460 and he's seeking single digits.

About the 03 Cobras, though, guys around here, and over at the Corral have all been seeing anywhere from 375-390 rwhp on the dyno, making that rating of 390 bhp rather under-rated. I know lots of guys at the track are having problems launching them, though resulting in some pretty piss-poor ET's...

Anyhow, good to have you here, it's nice to have a mix of folks, and nice for me to have old school hard core drag racers around, as well....

[Hugo]

Originally posted by HybridM30Coupe
Oh, and to the guy with the supertrapp, want a spare?

I have a name. Look to the left-hand side of your screen.

[bimmerpwr]

Originally posted by MCoupeS54IR
I see guys here at this site seem to range from 260-290 hp on a chassis dyno with engines rated at 315 from the factory. I have to agree with the guy over there, you are missing some hp. I have taken mine to a dyno shop in the Orange County (So Cal) area that also does Dinan work to see were my coupe already was and I came out with 317hp and yes it is all stock with the exception of a K&N in the stock airbox.

Where is the drive train lose?

[HybridM30Coupe]

Alright Hugo, I didn't realize that all of the posts were below my reply screen, or I would have called you by name. So do you want the trapp? ;-)

As for the descrepancies between what LS4_454 notes about SAE Net HP and Dynojet RW Dyno Results appear to be that the SAE Net HP rating is formulated using drivetrain/chassis/accessory loss using a formula, and the dyno uses an opposite formula to calculate power. here locally there is a company called DTS. They manufacture BIG 3400HP+ Engine Dynos, and after speaking at length with their engineers about the differences in dyno systems, it is VERY clear to me that wheel dynos aren't that accurate. They're pretty simple. A heavy drum is placed under the wheels, based upon how quickly the vehicle accelerates the drum of known weight, a computer generates a formulaic graph of horsepower. Torque Converter Style Engine Dynos are far more accurate. Both methods (SAE Net and RWHP) are formulaic, but the first of the two starts with reliable data to plug into the formula...the latter, a rw dyno has a little less consistency with the data being plugged into the formula.

Funny part is, despite all this argument, I'm not sure who's right. It seems pretty self evident that SAE Net measures engine power then factors in drivetrain loss. The argument here is which is more accurate to determine the horsepower at the wheels: engine dyno + equation OR sloppy rear wheel dyno.

Although this may suggest that SAE Net HP ratings are not "AT" the rear wheels, the fact is, dynojets aren't perfect, and SAE Net HP Ratings seem to attempt to show RWHP ratings although they are not a true measurement at the wheels.

Oh, and MCoupeS54IR, it's funny, my friend LS4_454 who y'all are arguing with built a very quick bug (his german car) for his son to run in the jr. drags. no clue what it runs or even if it's put together, but they are certainly not a group of cars to second guess. a friend of mine and I had a nice run in his triple sidedraft bavaria against a bug with big huge IDE's on it. low 15's perhaps, it's a stock 3.0 liter us motor with the webers...

Anyhow, it's good to be here...so who's the expert on chassis engineering? I have a lot of questions about tube framing my coupe and reinforcing the older style unibody...don't forget the rust...

Now, onto drag racing & street racing. Ain't it fun to spank a vette!! Best time I've had in my life...luckily when you stomp on em in an old chevy they usually give you the thumbs up instead of sneering at you. Now the viper owners, that's a different story.

jason
'78 IH Scout II Selective Edition 345 V8 w/ Holley 2bbl TBI (Big Block Map); MSD Offroad 6 Ignition; MSD In Cab Timing Control; Painless 7 Circuit Aux Harness; Fiddleback Maple & Billet Custom Dash w/ Autometer EGT, AFR, Vac, Tach, Speedo, Oil Press, Fuel, Water Temp Gauges; Garmin GPS; Maserati Buckets; Mickey Thompson Baja Claws on Gold Stock Jackmans; VLHPBOT.

[SilverStreak]

Welcome again, Hybrid. For chassis building BMW's, you might want to check out the Track Forum.

RWHP is what is measured on the dyno, be it a Dynojet or a Mustang Dyno, there may be different conversion factors/formulas, but there is always a loss...

[Hugo]

Ok Hybrid, no hard feelings. It sounded like you were being cocky ...

I don't need a spare Trapp, but who knows... Mine's a 5", but I don,t know the pipe size... 2.25" I guess?

[NickC]

OK, since no one has called this bullshit out I have to do it..

" have killed 3 stock 03 Cobra in my stock S54 M Roadster. the press 03 Cobra's were under-rated at 390 bhp not the one's going to the public.

Stock 03 are EZ kills for a good driver in a S54."

Gimme a break. Back when I had my Toyota Supra Twin Turbo with BPU mods, I dyno'd at 413rwhp and 402ftlbs. I would run 12.0-12.1 all day, with the occasional 11.8 or so mixed in there.
03 Supercharged Cobra's are MEAN, and will outright tear the fuck out of a S54 roadster, on the track or on the highway. I raced a bonestock one on the highway once with my BPU mods from 60mph to about 130mph or so, I barely pulled on the Cobra, maybe 3/4 of a car or so. S54 roadster would have been at the minimum 6-7 cars back.
As for that 12.56 at 109.1 Silver keeps throwing around, that is one hell of a time for such a low trap. His 60' time must have been absolutely killer.

[ibizam3]

Originally posted by NickC
OK, since no one has called this bullshit out I have to do it..

"As for that 12.56 at 109.1 Silver keeps throwing around, that is one hell of a time for such a low trap.

What do you think about a Z3 3.0 doing a 11.71@115.6mph?

[Yonkers320is]

Hey, I don't appreciate you guys calling all mechanics dumb. My father is a mechanic and he is very smart, He is my tuner and has a LOT of knowledge on race car engine building. and not on chevy or fords, he does my BMW, my brothers 325 and my Turbo Dodge Daytona.
I trust him more than the dealer, the dealer just wants to replace parts, my father can build them or find why it broke on the first place and make it better.....
Enough said

[NickC]

"What do you think about a Z3 3.0 doing a 11.71@115.6mph?"

Absolutely, positively, totally feasible. ANYTHING can be made fast. Hell, I've seen everything from Festiva's, to Pinto's, to Escort's run 10's at the track. If you have the money, anything is possible. I'm not bagging on the Z3 at all. In fact, I currently own a 98 ///M roadster and I love it more than life itself. I wouldn't trade it for two BPU Supra's, I love this car more than anything I've ever had before and I've had some nice stuff in the past. I also understand the difference between the S52 and the S54. Hell, I've got nothing but a shark injector on my ///M and I ran a 13.3 a couple weeks back, the cars are quick.
HOWEVER, too say like that one guy did that a 315hp car is going to "EZ kill" a 400hp Supercharged Cobra is INSANE. I have personally seen an 03 Cobra with intake, S/C pulley, exhaust and headers run a 10.9, yes, you read that right.
There is just so much bullshit thrown around when it comes to drag racing it's hilarious. Amazing how many guys with supposed 13 second cars run high 15's at the track. As well, lots of people throw around numbers with no timeslips to prove them. I guess a 12.56 @109 is possible, but mygod did he have to launch that car like a donkey on crack. Most cars with traps like that are in the low 13's.


__________________

[TeamZ4]

Originally posted by HalcYoN
A friend once told me, "If mechanics were any smarter, they wouldn't choose to be mechanics."

Dude,

A good BMW dealership master mechanic can make up to $150k/yr

we should all be that stupid

[JT///M3]

hmm, there are other ways to make 150k a year...with honestly, integrity, and professionalism...

[Hugo]

Not all mechanices are dishonest, lack integrity and are un-professionnal...

[SilverStreak]

Ok, a few things. First off, let's keep the profanity to a minimum in the General/Main Forums please.

As far as S54 Roadster killing 03 Cobras, hey, anything can happen, especially if the Cobra drivers don't know how to launch that torque monster.

That said, my only loss so far in my Z3 since getting my mods was to an 03 Cobra, albeit one that had 477 rwhp, but no matter, that car has my respect.

Next, my 60' on that 12.56 at 109.1 mph run was 1.821, I had dropped the rear tires pressures pretty low (22-23 psi, if I recall), and took the fronts up around 55 psi, and it was a nice cool dry day (60 degress, low humidity) down at Atco (a sea level track).

I don't have a scanner, but I still have that timeslip.

As far as bashing mechanics is concerned, let's knock it off. There are bad mechanics, just like there are bad scientists, I'd like to believe they are the exception, not the rule.

And yes, Nick, I launched the car around 4500 rpm, if I recall. I've been drag racing for about 17 yrs, and have roughly 7000 or more runs under my belt in that time.

Now, let's keep this civil, or it gets locked.

[Hugo]

Dave, I was just wondering...

If you don't play with tire pressures, what kind of difference can it make? A small one, or a huge one? (i.e. the difference between a 1.9 and a 2.4 60')

[SilverStreak]

Depends on a million factors, but in general 1-2 tenths tops...

[MCoupeS54IR]

00Mroadster,
Drivetrain loss? My dyno run was performed/measured at the rear wheels so the number I was given was from there. So with the engine rated at 315hp that is the number I should be producing or at least close to that as the manufacturer claims. The shop running the dyno said the motor will put out about 330-350 at the flywheel had we actually pulled the motor out and tested it that way. They have done some that way for some of the people that are really into racing at the track in "stock" classes. By doing it that way they have a better opportunity to play with cam timing and change the power curve of the engine. This place also does some testing for some manufacters so I would like to think their equipment has the best calibration and software availble.

[MCoupeS54IR]

Originally posted by JT///M3
hmm, there are other ways to make 150k a year...with honestly, integrity, and professionalism...

What's that JT? A lawyer?