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Thread: SMG tranny to manual?

  1. #276
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Coventry, United Kingdom
    Posts
    25
    My Cars
    96 Evo Cab, 98 Evo Coupe
    Quote Originally Posted by DusM3 View Post
    My biting point is just below the balance point of the clutch pedal ( just over half way down ) and I have a custom stop screwed all the way in.
    The trick is thorough bleeding with the slave out, compressed all the way in with a clamp and the bleeder at the highest point. Having someone work the clutch pedal is essential. Nothing else works, especially self bleeders.
    I reinstalled my smg slave-much more robust, and larger ports.

    As for the display....I'll explain without pictures and hope it makes sense.

    Firstly you'll need the E36 M3 AG version wiring PDF.
    Now remove the cluster and extract the keep the coding plug-assuming you have the M3 Evo cluster with oil temp gauge.
    Now-from the cluster connectors, wire#20 X17 remove and transfer to #13 X16 (you are now using SMG fault ouput wire to signal your new oil temp. guage.)
    - You will now remove your SMG ecu and supply fuses (optional)
    F111, F222 and F28 , and if you can find a spare, gut it so you only have the connector body and shortened bare pins from the circuit board for solder bridges. Solder in a bridge wire between terminals 3 and 62. If you don't have a spare ecu ( or use your own) make do. Note that you can shorten the casing to provide a cover for the pins. You are now redirecting the Gearbox temp input to the cluster oil temp input.
    Now under the car, snip off the plug for gearbox oil temp (leave min. 100mm of wire) draw the wire back to where it tee's off under the airbox ( this is definitley out ) and redirect to the oil temp. switch you've already installed ( there is a port for this purpose below the oil pressure switch on the oil pump housing ). Resolder the plug to the in-position wire and use heatshrink to protect. (If you muck about with the pins on the plug you will be looking for a new plug). I did. You are now supplying the cluster with an oil temp. input.

    Job Done..almost.

    With your SMG ecu gone your engine will not stay started, it will die within a second. I have decribed a simple workaround for this in previous posts, pictures are provided.
    Now the new cluster will only need your original coding plug, with an alignment done to transfer original mileage to the new cluster. this procedure is described in the TIS and must be followed to letter or a tamper dot will appear and not go away. Note that the cluster you buy must have lower mileage than yours for this to work. Otherwise a new coding plug and alignment is required.

    The other way to do this is run a new wire from the temp. switch directly to the cluster whichever route you choose. I'm happy with the results I have, totally OE appearance in the cabin, you'd never know from inside, and I have alot of wires I can use later just by bridging a few links.
    Take the time to read and understand the wiring diagram, doing things slowly while documenting and checking should see you through.
    If you tackle it and get it wrong I was never here

    ^
    First of all, thanks for the quick response and sorry for the amount of time it has taken to reply.
    Got the clocks in and working, you were spot on with the write up, had to run the extra wire as the car was an SMG with a seized engine, i purchased an accident damaged manual and swopped the engine/box and engine wiring loom complete.
    I will also try your method of bleeding the clutch as when the engine is hot sometimes it is a struggle to select a gear, i bled it with the slave out but not with the plunger fully depressed, only pressing it in now and again, will let you know how i get on,
    Thanks for all your help

  2. #277
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    georgia tbilisi
    Posts
    1
    My Cars
    BMW E36 M3 cabrio
    hello

    i made my smg to manual and done the reley so now..

    is it possible to display engine oil temp on the smg display ?

    sorry for my eng

  3. #278
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    100
    My Cars
    S50B32
    I have a 1998 Euro M3 cluster/speedo for sale, please pm me if interested. ****SOLD****







    Last edited by ellislau; 09-25-2011 at 07:49 AM.

  4. #279
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    7
    My Cars
    E36 M3 EVO, R32 GTR

    Clutch Master Cylinder and Clutch Line Questions

    Hi Guys

    Again this thread has been a super valuable resource. I am mid way through my conversion - but have run into a hiccup obtaining the clutch line (the hard line going from master cylinder to flexable line near slave cylinder).

    My Vehicle is 5/97 build RHD Coupe

    According to Realoem.com - the master cylinder I need is this one (below):


    the part number is 21526758820

    It seems to fit ok, though the clutch pedal return spring touches the side of it (no a big deal, but makes me wonder if it is correct) and I have yet to be able to test if it operates correctly. The main issue I have at this point - is according to realoem the matching clutch line (called "plug in pipe") part number 21522228570 doesnt seem to be available from pelican parts.

    I have considered sourcing the early master cylinder as the suitable clutch line is listed as available (part number 21521160414 "plug in pipe")

    (part number for the above master cylinder is 21526758829 - and listed to suit up to 5/97 on real oem, but 4/97 on pelican parts)

    I already have the master cylinder (shorter one - first pic) and would like to make that work if I can, but so far can not find the matching clutch line (21522228570). Also I am wondering if it is wrong as my vehicle is right on the cusp of when they changed according to realoem.

    Just to confuse things a little more - I have a car that I am using as a reference point - it is a 98 model converted from SMG to manual - whoever did the conversion used the longer master cylinder.... which seems to fit ok.

    As always - most grateful for any assistance.
    Last edited by mpowersteve; 11-19-2011 at 10:15 PM. Reason: revised

  5. #280
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    UK
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    100
    My Cars
    S50B32
    21522228570 comes with the new master cylinder ( the 1st pic you posted ).
    Last edited by ellislau; 11-23-2011 at 09:36 AM.

  6. #281
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    7
    My Cars
    E36 M3 EVO, R32 GTR

    measurement for bore centres

    G'day again guys!

    Ok - so I am driving my converted M3.... so good, so happy!

    One thing I have noticed is that the "rest point" for the gear shift seems to be a little off, in the sense that if I push the stick forward to select first gear... it is like I am pushing againts a wall, however if I move the stick over just a little to the right, it goes in no problem. All other gears seem to go in ok (though once you have first this is your point of reference....). Its not a huge problem at all - now I know where to look for it I can get the gear without thinking, might be a different story for someone unfamiliar with the car though.

    I am thinking perhaps experementing with the diameter of the bearing, but FIRST was going to check the distance from centre to centre of the holes that were bored in my SMG gearbox (as per diagram below)



    (this diagram was immensley helpful by the way - thankyou Ellis!)

    would you happen to have the measument between the two holes / centres?
    Last edited by mpowersteve; 12-16-2011 at 05:43 AM.

  7. #282
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    100
    My Cars
    S50B32
    Sorry, no info. Pls verify the bearing size was mentioned.

  8. #283
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    7
    My Cars
    E36 M3 EVO, R32 GTR
    as I recall I went with a 22 OD bearing....

  9. #284
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    hong kong
    Posts
    156
    My Cars
    m3
    Mr Lau, you are the GOD of SMGconversion!

  10. #285
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Russia SPb
    Posts
    1
    My Cars
    bmw 325i m-tech2 e30
    Greetings to inhabitants of a forum! Excuse me for mine English! My name is Peter, I from St.-Petersburg, Russia!

    At me е46 м3 with smg! It would be desirable to alter it in mechanics! You couldn't write the detailed instruction and the exact list of necessary spare parts!

    The step-by-step instruction will be very useful!

    Thanks for councils!


    I so understand, what I need to remove a bell from mine смг, to make necessary works on the machine tool according to the resulted drawing, to buy necessary positions under the catalog and all it to collect?

    Technical I can face what problems and whether there are any subtleties (secrets) of alteration?
    Last edited by korifey; 01-18-2012 at 05:10 AM.

  11. #286
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Curacao
    Posts
    66
    My Cars
    E46 M3
    Hello guys,

    Can this be done to the E46 M3 also? I read that for this swap the DME needs to be reflashed.
    But if I got it right from this thread it seems not necessary.
    Can I do the same with my e46 M3??

    Thanks
    E34 M5 Euro 3.8 e34 SOLD
    E36 M3 Euro 3.0 Wizards of Nos
    11.90 @ 115 1.69 60ft SOLD
    E30 M3 Euro SOLD
    E39 M5 SOLD
    E46 M3 vert. AA stage 2- SMG to Manual

  12. #287
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Houson, Texas
    Posts
    720
    My Cars
    99 m3/97 evo m3/93 325is
    Quote Originally Posted by goughie View Post
    Just completed my second conversion, no loss of power, this one is considerably faster than my convertible, again, clutch is very low, approx 25mm off bulkhead, also have the stalling issue on this one although the idle is a bit lumpy so hoping a clean of the ICV and MAF will help, no wiring modifications needed, just disconnected the muti plug under the bonnet and modded the relay as described in this thread
    I did the conversion to a e46 SMG box, the centering spring is not in the E46 boxes. Learn to be smooth on shift or you will go 6th to 2nd like I accidentally did on the 1st hot lap. Luckily I was trail braking so it didnt money shift the motor. Just put the red car sideways.

    I also used a 93 325is slave cylinder and have great pedal feel and it releases about halfway to the top.

    I will do the conversion on the blue euro and ditch the SMG electronics.
    98 Euro E36 M3 (ExSMG)/99 M3 Daily Driver/93 M3 (S54) TBD-hp/TBD-tq ) Current NASA track record holder TTD on street tires @ 3450lbs (Eagles Canyon 2:05.3, MSR-Houston 1:47.08)S52E36 TWS CCW 1:54.8, COTA 2:30.6 Race Lap 3yr old 245/40/18 Hankook Z214 C51)

  13. #288
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Melbourne,Australia
    Posts
    306
    My Cars
    98 M3 3.2
    Quote Originally Posted by goughie View Post
    Just completed my second conversion, no loss of power, this one is considerably faster than my convertible, again, clutch is very low, approx 25mm off bulkhead, also have the stalling issue on this one although the idle is a bit lumpy so hoping a clean of the ICV and MAF will help, no wiring modifications needed, just disconnected the muti plug under the bonnet and modded the relay as described in this thread
    Did you sort the stalling issue?
    I'd given up trying for awhile, but given I've just had a full external restoration done, its a distraction I'd like gone.

  14. #289
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Houson, Texas
    Posts
    720
    My Cars
    99 m3/97 evo m3/93 325is
    ever so slight differences in the e46 and e36 s6s420g gearboxes on the outside. You will need a shorter gearbox rpm sensor if you swap bellhousings this way.

    I am taking a e46 SMG 2 bellhousing I converted already, and installing it onto my E36 SMG1 gear side. The holes are all aligned and the front seals are identical. Other then the one sensor it all seems fine.
    98 Euro E36 M3 (ExSMG)/99 M3 Daily Driver/93 M3 (S54) TBD-hp/TBD-tq ) Current NASA track record holder TTD on street tires @ 3450lbs (Eagles Canyon 2:05.3, MSR-Houston 1:47.08)S52E36 TWS CCW 1:54.8, COTA 2:30.6 Race Lap 3yr old 245/40/18 Hankook Z214 C51)

  15. #290
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Houson, Texas
    Posts
    720
    My Cars
    99 m3/97 evo m3/93 325is
    Unplugged SMG unit and fuse 26, zip tied the microswitch so it shows neutral on the lower display and jumped the big wires on the ews so it cranks with or without the key being reconized (but wont stay running without a ews matching signal) and it fires up at the push of the brake pedal.

    Test drive tomorrow. I used a 325is slave cylinder so it will have the stout feeling like i had in the red car with a e46 6speed.
    98 Euro E36 M3 (ExSMG)/99 M3 Daily Driver/93 M3 (S54) TBD-hp/TBD-tq ) Current NASA track record holder TTD on street tires @ 3450lbs (Eagles Canyon 2:05.3, MSR-Houston 1:47.08)S52E36 TWS CCW 1:54.8, COTA 2:30.6 Race Lap 3yr old 245/40/18 Hankook Z214 C51)

  16. #291
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Kingdom Of Bahrain
    Posts
    144
    My Cars
    04 E46 M3 JB/Kiwi
    Excellent thread. This will help me a lot when I do my friends Smg to mt on his e36 m3 EVO. Thanks for all the info.

    EURO 04 M3
    Current Mods: GC DA's, Eibach ARB's, INTRAVEE II + Alpine KCA-420i, Depo's, Screen protector for OEM 16:9 display, VCSL Bumper + Race Lip + CF Boot + CF Rear Diffusor, DIETZ TV in Motion, Z8 Starter Button, BBS CHs, Lamin-X, STORM SMG Paddles, RE RTABs/RCAs, OEM CSL Interior, OEM CSL Intake, M3 CSL HP DME, TTFS Tune, STOPTECH ST40's, FXR 3.0 Projectors, SS Stepped headers + Catless S Pipes + Res X-Pipe + Sport Muffler, OEM CSL Roof, OEM CSL Steering.



  17. #292
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    ME
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    196
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    BMW E30
    Quote Originally Posted by ejaz3739 View Post
    Excellent thread. This will help me a lot when I do my friends Smg to mt on his e36 m3 EVO. Thanks for all the info.
    Nice yellow M3 BTW.

  18. #293
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Kingdom Of Bahrain
    Posts
    144
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    04 E46 M3 JB/Kiwi
    Quote Originally Posted by Modded E30 View Post
    Nice yellow M3 BTW.
    Lol thanks bro.

    EURO 04 M3
    Current Mods: GC DA's, Eibach ARB's, INTRAVEE II + Alpine KCA-420i, Depo's, Screen protector for OEM 16:9 display, VCSL Bumper + Race Lip + CF Boot + CF Rear Diffusor, DIETZ TV in Motion, Z8 Starter Button, BBS CHs, Lamin-X, STORM SMG Paddles, RE RTABs/RCAs, OEM CSL Interior, OEM CSL Intake, M3 CSL HP DME, TTFS Tune, STOPTECH ST40's, FXR 3.0 Projectors, SS Stepped headers + Catless S Pipes + Res X-Pipe + Sport Muffler, OEM CSL Roof, OEM CSL Steering.



  19. #294
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    hong kong
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    156
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    m3
    After the conversion, most of you will be running into stalling issue, esp when you are coming off 3rd gear or 4 gear with rev around 2-3k while depressing the clutch. This can only be solved by getting a manual ECU. Besides sticking a manual ecu, you need to pickup signals from the clutch and the shifter. This will tell the ECU that the vehicle is on neutral and the ecu will remap it to idle mode.
    We've done a few here in Hong Kong and problem solved!

  20. #295
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Melbourne,Australia
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    306
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    98 M3 3.2
    Quote Originally Posted by bedema View Post
    After the conversion, most of you will be running into stalling issue, esp when you are coming off 3rd gear or 4 gear with rev around 2-3k while depressing the clutch. This can only be solved by getting a manual ECU. Besides sticking a manual ecu, you need to pickup signals from the clutch and the shifter. This will tell the ECU that the vehicle is on neutral and the ecu will remap it to idle mode.
    We've done a few here in Hong Kong and problem solved!
    Great to hear you have a solution!
    Only issue is how to wire in the switch when the wiring diagram doesn't reference it anywhere. Do you have any details?
    Also would a reflash of the smg version ecu work?
    Thanks for any info.
    Cheers

  21. #296
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    UK
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    S50B32
    Quote Originally Posted by DusM3 View Post
    Great to hear you have a solution!
    Only issue is how to wire in the switch when the wiring diagram doesn't reference it anywhere. Do you have any details?
    Also would a reflash of the smg version ecu work?
    Thanks for any info.
    Cheers
    Wire them to PIN 19 & PIN 80 of the manual ECU.

  22. #297
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    UK
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    2
    My Cars
    1998 M3
    Clutch switch is PIN 80
    Secondary air pump is PIN 19

    Why use PIN 19?

  23. #298
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Melbourne,Australia
    Posts
    306
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    98 M3 3.2
    I've belled out a manual engine harness, and results are interesting;

    Pin 19 energizes relays for air pump and O2 sensor heating, and also supplies power to one side of the gearbox mounted in-gear switch. The other side of the switch goes to the clutch switch, and then onto Pin 80 of the DME.
    Of course no signal can be received at pin 80 once the air pump is switched off, so I can't see how it can affect stalling once up to temperature ?

  24. #299
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    UK
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    2
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    1998 M3
    Good effort DusM3.

    PIN 19 must be a constant source of power with a relay controlling the on/off for the air pump and O2 heater: the gear selection switch being connected to PIN 19 before the relay. This is the only way that the gear selection switch and clutch switch can work and run the different fuel map when in neutral.

    Does this seem plausible??
    Last edited by seanc; 02-24-2013 at 11:10 AM.

  25. #300
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    UK
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    S50B32
    On the circuit diagram, PIN 19 is +12V when air pump is off (engine hot), so the clutch switch is energized and can provide 12+ signal to ECU via PIN 80. PIN 19 is grounded when Air Pump is active, clutch signal is muted. It seems map switching is not necessary when engine is cool.
    Last edited by ellislau; 02-24-2013 at 11:00 AM.

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