Relacing brake pads and roters - anything else?

[applecran]

It's time to do the brakes all around.

I'm planning on replacing with ATE Rotors and Hawk High performance Street pads.

obviously I need to order pads and rotors, but what else do I need?

Some places offer kits including mounting bolts, calipe rebuild kits, anti squel and on and one.

My car is a '99 540i with 109K miles and climbing. I was planning on having my indy do the bleed and flush as I heard that to get a full flush you need the bmw computer... something to do with the abs?

So, what other parts other than pads and rotors should I order? And, does the caliper rebuilding require the system to be bled?

Thanks guys!

[applecran]

Oh, and I searched but does anyone have a link to a how-to for the rotors/pads?

[xbmx89]

dumb question here but are the oem brake pads bad or is it better to get aftermarket?

[mhf]

Nothing wrong with OEM pads, many here like aftermarket because they don't produce so much brake dust. I run centric rotors and Axxis delux pads.

[xbmx89]

Nothing wrong with OEM pads, many here like aftermarket because they don't produce so much brake dust. I run centric rotors and Axxis delux pads.

ok thanks

[applecran]

Yeah OEM are good

I just want to try something different.

[Road Rash]

I just did the same thing last weekend. Pads and rotors all around. I'll wait for another day to bleed and flush the system. It's a real smooth job except for the rotors. They needed a bit of persuasion.

Don't forget to give the wheels a good cleaning while they are off the car.

[applecran]

I just did the same thing last weekend. Pads and rotors all around. I'll wait for another day to bleed and flush the system. It's a real smooth job except for the rotors. They needed a bit of persuasion.

Don't forget to give the wheels a good cleaning while they are off the car.

So do I need to order anything other than the pads and rotors to get the job down?

I've not done brakes before so need a walkthrough and the common gotchas etc.

Cheers

[oceancon]

Some guys like to do the brake pad sensors as well but I think because they break if you're not careful when you take them off.

[Pharoh]

+1 on the brake pad sensors, have 'em replaced. Also, have a can of PB blaster and a 3-pound mallet handy. If yours is a 6-speed, also consider replacing the e-brake shoes/springs.

[nd4spd]

I would go ahead and do the steel braided lines. Adds to the pedal feel and a margin of safty. Bavarian auto has caliper pins that are claim additional caliper flex. I don't see the need to rebuild the caliper unless one is binding.

[Dan]

lube the "pins"

you'll need a small pry stick thingie
19mm
torx (forgot which size but it's something)
hex for the rotor nut
and 17 to take the wheel off.


when you take the pins off with the torx, CLEAN IT UP WELL and moly greese it. those 2 pins is what allows the calipers to slide left and right and if they bind up or do not move freely, you got issues.

[Road Rash]

So do I need to order anything other than the pads and rotors to get the job down?

I've not done brakes before so need a walkthrough and the common gotchas etc.

Cheers

Nothing else is needed, but tools. As stated above, you can always change more stuff. You only need to replace the wear sensor if you have a light on the dash or if you break it when removing (unlikely). My rotors were stuck pretty good. I used a generic puller and a big hammer to break them loose. But a big hammer is all you need if you're going to replace them anyway.

Let's see, 17mm socket for the lug bolts, 16mm for the caliper carrier bolts, two sizes of allen wrench for the caliper and the rotor bolt, flat screwdriver for the anti-rattle clip. That's about it. Clean the rotors good before you re-assemble everything and don't forget to bed the pads when you're done. Send me a PM if you get stuck.

[applecran]

+1 on the brake pad sensors, have 'em replaced. Also, have a can of PB blaster and a 3-pound mallet handy. If yours is a 6-speed, also consider replacing the e-brake shoes/springs.

Excellent thanks, mine is a 6 speed, so maybe I'll do those parts as well.

I would go ahead and do the steel braided lines. Adds to the pedal feel and a margin of safty. Bavarian auto has caliper pins that are claim additional caliper flex. I don't see the need to rebuild the caliper unless one is binding.

I had thought about the brake lines, but since i'm going to get the shop to do the bleed/ flush, was not sure if that would add to much labour. would they need to take the brakes apart again to do the lines?

lube the "pins"

you'll need a small pry stick thingie
19mm
torx (forgot which size but it's something)
hex for the rotor nut
and 17 to take the wheel off.


when you take the pins off with the torx, CLEAN IT UP WELL and moly greese it. those 2 pins is what allows the calipers to slide left and right and if they bind up or do not move freely, you got issues.

Thanks Dan, I'll get the exact sizes from my Bentley. I have the bently but sometimes input from you guys is more helpfull.

is Moly grease just a standard automotive grease?

what about anti squeal? do I need that?

[applecran]

Nothing else is needed, but tools. As stated above, you can always change more stuff. You only need to replace the wear sensor if you have a light on the dash or if you break it when removing (unlikely). My rotors were stuck pretty good. I used a generic puller and a big hammer to break them loose. But a big hammer is all you need if you're going to replace them anyway.

Let's see, 17mm socket for the lug bolts, 16mm for the caliper carrier bolts, two sizes of allen wrench for the caliper and the rotor bolt, flat screwdriver for the anti-rattle clip. That's about it. Clean the rotors good before you re-assemble everything and don't forget to bed the pads when you're done. Send me a PM if you get stuck.

Thanks! I have all those tools.

Why do the new rotors need to be cleaned? Just curious. Also, what about the pads? Do they come ready to go on or does anything need to be cleaned off first?

[Road Rash]

Because you're going to get your greasy fingers all over the rotors byt the time you get them in place. They may also have a thin coating of oil on them from the mfg to prevent rust, but I'm not positive. Don't quote me on that one. I used carb cleaner, but the rotor mfg says to use brake cleaner.

The pads should be good to go, unless you get your greasy fingers all over the pad surface.

[PJB]

Thanks! I have all those tools.

Why do the new rotors need to be cleaned? Just curious. Also, what about the pads? Do they come ready to go on or does anything need to be cleaned off first?

Rotors sit on the shelves and collect dust, they come slightly greased and have various other residues on them, mainly stemming from the manufacturing process. Get yourself a can of brake cleaner, it costs all of about $2. When you disassemble your caliper, clean everything with that brake cleaner. It's basically an aerosol solvent that cuts grease. Give the rotors a quick spray and wipe before you install them, clean the caliper bolt pins with it, clean the pad carrier, etc. I used almost the whole can when I did my brake job. My pads came clean so I didn't touch those, however, I'd suggest getting the anti-squeal compound - pretty much it's a tacky rubber cement-type glue that keeps the pads from vibrating and sqeaking. That's pretty inexpensive at about $2 also and I only used about 1/10th of the bottle. Finally, get some white lithium grease - that's a generic compound and not a brand name. Grease the caliper carrier pins with that, as mentioned above. That's about $2 a can too, and has more uses in and around the car.

When I was preparing for my brake job I culled various tips from here and there on this forum and pulled them all into one text file that I printed out and had right next to my Bentley manual when the time came for the job. Most of the tips have already been stated, like the ones from Dan. The Bentley manual is really all that you need, and since you have already have it you're good to go. I'll post the text file when I get home tonight. I also made a list of ALL tools that I used (even the small ones) and why (wrench instead of a socket for the rear because there's not enough room back there, for example) and snapped a picture of them. I'll send that too if you like. As a final tip you should photocopy the Bentley manual pages and use those instead of the book unless you want to get the pages all dirty. Screw that, really dirty. I don't consider myself very mechanically inclined and my brake job turned out great. Don't sweat it.

[PJB]

Because you're going to get your greasy fingers all over the rotors byt the time you get them in place. They may also have a thin coating of oil on them from the mfg to prevent rust, but I'm not positive. Don't quote me on that one. I used carb cleaner, but the rotor mfg says to use brake cleaner.

The pads should be good to go, unless you get your greasy fingers all over the pad surface.

Also, don't take too long in writing a long response because someone will come and answer it really quickly

[applecran]

Rotors sit on the shelves and collect dust, they come slightly greased and have various other residues on them, mainly stemming from the manufacturing process. Get yourself a can of brake cleaner, it costs all of about $2. When you disassemble your caliper, clean everything with that brake cleaner. It's basically an aerosol solvent that cuts grease. Give the rotors a quick spray and wipe before you install them, clean the caliper bolt pins with it, clean the pad carrier, etc. I used almost the whole can when I did my brake job. My pads came clean so I didn't touch those, however, I'd suggest getting the anti-squeal compound - pretty much it's a tacky rubber cement-type glue that keeps the pads from vibrating and sqeaking. That's pretty inexpensive at about $2 also and I only used about 1/10th of the bottle. Finally, get some white lithium grease - that's a generic compound and not a brand name. Grease the caliper carrier pins with that, as mentioned above. That's about $2 a can too, and has more uses in and around the car.

When I was preparing for my brake job I culled various tips from here and there on this forum and pulled them all into one text file that I printed out and had right next to my Bentley manual when the time came for the job. Most of the tips have already been stated, like the ones from Dan. The Bentley manual is really all that you need, and since you have already have it you're good to go. I'll post the text file when I get home tonight. I also made a list of ALL tools that I used (even the small ones) and why (wrench instead of a socket for the rear because there's not enough room back there, for example) and snapped a picture of them. I'll send that too if you like. As a final tip you should photocopy the Bentley manual pages and use those instead of the book unless you want to get the pages all dirty. Screw that, really dirty. I don't consider myself very mechanically inclined and my brake job turned out great. Don't sweat it.

hanks PJB. I'd really appreciate if you can post anything you have, i'm sure it will help others in the future as well.

Looks like i'm going to get:

ATE rotors
HAWK HPS pads
419 total from tirerack

Bavauto brake lines - $125
Bavauto Caliper pin set - 60 buks (why not for 60 bucks)
2 brake sensors just in case - 112 ea

On the fence on the ebrake shoe kit. no problems with ebrake right now that I know of. It's 75 bucks.

i have lithium grease, so I'll use that
Will get:
PB blaster
brake cleaner
anti squeal

My local indy will bleed the brake system with parts and labour for $60. They will do the new lines at the same time for a little bit extra, and I'll supply the ATE Super blue fluid.


Thanks for all the tips guys!

I anyone knows where to get the stuff above cheaper let me know, I've looked all over but you never know.

[PJB]

2 brake sensors just in case - 112 ea

That's a typo, right? You can't be saying $112.00?

As far as the rest of the parts for cheaper, are you looking for the same brands at a cheaper price, or will you consider different brands? I purchased different brand items for a little bit less via the groupbuy section.

[applecran]

That's a typo, right? You can't be saying $112.00?

As far as the rest of the parts for cheaper, are you looking for the same brands at a cheaper price, or will you consider different brands? I purchased different brand items for a little bit less via the groupbuy section.

Actually they are gold plated diamond encrusted plutnum alloy dipped brake sensors. The guy told me they would sense the brakes better

yeah that hould be 12 dollars.

No i'm good with the brands, and these prices. Only thing i'm unsure abut are the stainless brake lines. Not sure if that is a good price/quality. I don't want the cheapest, but I don't want to get ripped off either.

[PJB]

hanks PJB. I'd really appreciate if you can post anything you have, i'm sure it will help others in the future as well.

Here is my brake job "cheat sheet"


Tools
=====
-Floor jack/jack stands to raise car (ramps will not work since wheels need to be removed)
-Wheel chocks or equivalent (blocks of wood) to prevent car from rolling while partially raised
-BMW lug bolt adapter for lug bolt cover or equivalent (flat head screwdriver, etc.) to remove lug bolt cover from wheels (some wheels will not have a lug bolt cover and this will not be needed)
-17mm lug wrench socket (long type) for lug nuts to remove wheels
-Breaker bar to remove lug nuts and various nuts
-Rachet to remove various nuts where breaker bar is too long
-BMW Special Tool or equivalent (strong flat head screwdriver or C-clamp, I used the non-business end of my breaker bar) to depress brake caliper piston
-Flat head screwdriver to remove plastic cover for caliper carrier boots, and to remove brake wear sensor
-7mm allen wrench to remove caliper sliding bolts
-Strong string, stiff wire, or wire hanger to suspend caliper from chassis
-18mm lug wrench socket for removing front caliper carrier bolts
-16mm lug wrench socket (long type socket) for removing rear lower caliper carrier bolts
-16mm lug wrench socket (short type socket) for removing rear upper caliper carrier bolts
-4" rachet extension for removing rear upper caliper carrier bolts
-6mm allen wrench for removing brake rotor
-Syringe or equivalent (turkey baster , eye dropper, paper towels, straw) for removing brake fluid from the reservoir

Materials
=======
-Anti-squeal compound ~$4
-Brake cleaner ~$3
-Any ATE DOT 4 brake fluid ~$5
-Clean container to hold parts
-Towels to wipe parts
-Newspaper to put parts on

Quick Directions
================
1) remove wheels (duh)
2) remove spring retaining clip on caliper
3) remove plastic caps over caliper bolts and use torx bit (7mm allen) remove the bolts, 6mm bit for the rotor
4) open cap on master cylinder (to ensure that when you press the pads into the calipers you're not putting undue pressure on it)
5) use C-clamp to push caliper piston back into into caliper
6) remove old pads, transfer the anti-squeal backings from the OEM pads to the new ones (squirt in some anti-squeal crap in there if you want, on the backs of pads), insert new pads. If the backing will adhere to the pad without the compound fine, if not use the compound on both sides of the backing.
7) installation is reverse of removal - top off brake fluid in master cylinder if required

*Open bleeder valve when you push back the pistons into the caliper so you don't send dirty fluid back to your ABS unit
*Instead of opening bleeder valve, remove cap on brake fluid reservoir
*When replacing the rotors, hang the caliper from the chassis with a stiff wire (coat hanger)
*When replacing the rotors, clean rotor with brake cleaner
*Before taking the whole assembly apart, use a STONG (sic) flathead screwdriver and pry between the OLD pad and the OLD rotors to compress the caliper. this would save you the need to get something to push it in. This is an alternative to using a C-clamp, or the end of a breaker bar.
*When taking off the whole caliper, there's these two sliding rods that holds the carrier in. take them out, clean them up and put a little grease on them. yes... grease. when you take your car to a shop, they don't do this. when you do it yourself, you do. why? this is what allows the pads on the carrier to slide left and right.
Before installing the rotors, clean them off with brake cleaning spray. Gets rid of bullshit stuff on there to prevent it from rusting sitting on the shelf on the store. quick spray... doesn't have to be a bubble bath or anything.

Bedding in the Brakes
=====================
Bedding allows your brakes to reach their full potential. Until they are bedded, your brakes simply do not work as well as they can. If you've installed a big brake kit, changed your pads and rotors, or even if you've purchased a brand new car, you should set aside some time to bed the brakes in by following the instructions below. Proper bedding will improve pedal feel, reduce or eliminate brake squeal, and extend the life of your pads and rotors. For more on the theory of bedding, please refer to this excellent article by StopTech: Removing the Mystery from Brake Pad Bed-In.

Caution: After installing new pads/rotors or a big brake kit, the first few applications of the brake pedal will result in almost no braking power. Gently apply the brakes a few times at low speed in order to build up some grip before blasting down the road at high speed. Otherwise, you may be in for a nasty surprise the first time you hit the brakes at 60 mph.

When following these instructions, avoid doing it around other vehicles. Bedding is often best done early in the morning, when traffic is light, since other drivers will have no idea what you are up to and will respond in a variety of ways ranging from fear to curiosity to aggression. An officer of the law will probably not understand when you try to explain why you were driving erratically!


1. From a speed of about 60mph, gently apply the brakes a couple of times to bring them up to operating temperature. This prevents you from thermally shocking the rotors and pads in the next steps.

2. Make a series of eight near-stops from 60 to about 10 mph. Do it HARD by pressing on the brakes firmly, just shy of locking the wheels or engaging ABS. At the end of each slowdown, immediately accelerate back to 60mph. DO NOT COME TO A COMPLETE STOP! If you stop completely and sit for any length of time with your foot on the brake pedal, you will imprint pad material onto the hot rotors, which can lead to vibration, uneven braking, and could even ruin the rotors. With some less aggressive street pads, you may need fewer than eight near-stops. If your pedal gets soft or you feel the brakes going away, then you've done enough. Proceed to the next step.

3. The brakes may begin to fade slightly after the 7th or 8th near-stop. This fade will stabilize, but not completely go away until the brakes have fully cooled. A strong smell from the brakes, and even smoke, is normal.

4. After the 8th near-stop, accelerate back up to speed and cruise for a while, using the brakes as little as possible. The brakes need 5 to 10 minutes to cool down. Try not to become trapped in traffic or come to a complete stop while the brakes are still hot.

5. After the break-in cycle, there should be a slight blue tint and a light gray film on the rotor face. The blue tint tells you the rotor has reached break-in temperature and the gray film is pad material starting to transfer onto the rotor face. This is what you are looking for. The best braking occurs when there is an even layer of of pad material deposited across the face of the rotors. This minimizes squealing, increases braking torque, and maximizes pad and rotor life.

6. After the first break in cycle shown above, the brakes may still not be fully broken in. A second bed-in cycle, AFTER the brakes have cooled down fully from the first cycle, may be necessary before the brakes really start to perform well. This is especially true if you have installed new pads on old rotors. If you've just installed a big brake kit, the pedal travel may not feel as firm as you expected. After the second cycle, the pedal will become noticeably firmer. If necessary, bleed the brakes to improve pedal firmness.

[applecran]

Thanks PJB that helps a lot. I've manage to find everything I needed, ordering from 3 different places to get what I want

Will be a few weeks probably till I do the install, will definatly ping you if I have any issues.

Thanks All!

[chiefwej]

Good info about brakes and a good source for all kinds of brakes for your car (plus Dave is an e39 guy).

http://www.zeckhausen.com/BMW/E39.htm

[PJB]

Thanks PJB that helps a lot. I've manage to find everything I needed, ordering from 3 different places to get what I want

Will be a few weeks probably till I do the install, will definatly ping you if I have any issues.

Thanks All!

No problem man, ping away! I even had my friend come over to "help," who used to be an auto mechanic. What with the Bentley manual and my procedure sheet, all he really did was watch me and drink my beer. A brake job is VERY doable. Good luck!