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Thread: Bernman's excellent adventure (warning large pictures)

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolcarlski
    Why on earth does BMW have the sway bars for the M3 attached to the struts as opposed to the 325 and most cars having it attached to the control arms?
    Don't get all worried about what he said. There is a night and day difference between the two. Attaching to the strut gives the sway bar a greater mechanical advantage requiring less bar to accomplish the same job. I guess you could try running a huge bar attached to your comtrol arms... but I still don't think it will give you the same results.

    JB

  2. #27
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    I would still argue that for most people, there is not a large difference between a 22mm M3 front bar attached to the shocks, and a 26mm sport package bar attached to the control arms. I have had both (I have 96 M3 bars now) and for the street it is not huge. JB is correct that a smaller bar with more mechanical advantage is preferable to a larger bar with less.

    One reason to attach the bar to the strut would be as the strut turns, the force applied by the bar changes because of the linkage. I would expect that this was intended by BMW, and would hope this offers some advantage.

    Basically it comes down to this. If you can get the M3 struts, get the M3 bars. If you don't have the M3 struts, use a sport package front bar, and a 96M3 rear...or just plunk down for aftermarket bars and be done with it

  3. #28
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    nice write-up!

  4. #29
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    IMO, if you are gonna spend moola on aftermarket bars, change your suspension to an M3 aftermarket setup and go with M3 bars. And another thing... listen to the Bern. He's a smart dude. Anybody who can write a thread this in depth deserves some respect.

    I, for one, noticed quite a difference going from my stock sport bar to the M3 bar attached to the struts. But again, thats just JB. Could have been placebo or maybe my tire pressures were spot on.

    ...Buy my set of M3 swaybars.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by euro4life
    IMO, if you are gonna spend moola on aftermarket bars, change your suspension to an M3 aftermarket setup and go with M3 bars. And another thing... listen to the Bern. He's a smart dude. Anybody who can write a thread this in depth deserves some respect.

    I, for one, noticed quite a difference going from my stock sport bar to the M3 bar attached to the struts. But again, thats just JB. Could have been placebo or maybe my tire pressures were spot on.

    ...Buy my set of M3 swaybars.
    I have the full front and rear suspension(subframes attached) from a 99 M3 but I just wanna know if all the wrk would be worth it.Thought I'd just use the struts,sways,mounts and front brakes.My main concern is hoping that there wont be an issue with aligning the damn thing.I'd like to use the stck 325i control arms.
    Last edited by coolcarlski; 07-25-2004 at 04:14 PM.

  6. #31
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    will all this part numbers work on a four door?
    only lowered

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolcarlski
    I have the full front and rear suspension(subframes attached) from a 99 M3 but I just wanna know if all the wrk would be worth it.Thought I'd just use the struts,sways,mounts and front brakes.My main concern is hoping that there wont be an issue with aligning the damn thing.I'd like to use the stck 325i control arms.
    Use everything that you have. You need the M3 kingpins to install the front brakes, and you need the M3 rear trailing arms to install the rear brakes. If you have the M3 rear as a unit, it should be "relatively" easy to install. In the front, you can use your stock control arms, but if you are going to all that trouble, it is definately worthwhile to get the M3 ones. Since you have 99M3 parts, stick with the 96+M3 control arms. You will be happy that you did

    Rusky, all the suspension parts are the same between 2-door and 4-door, so yes, all these parts will work.

    Good luck!
    Bernman

  8. #33
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    Excellent write up.

    Should be in the FAQ or made a sticky....

    Cheers
    Dave
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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernman
    Use everything that you have. You need the M3 kingpins to install the front brakes, and you need the M3 rear trailing arms to install the rear brakes. If you have the M3 rear as a unit, it should be "relatively" easy to install. In the front, you can use your stock control arms, but if you are going to all that trouble, it is definately worthwhile to get the M3 ones. Since you have 99M3 parts, stick with the 96+M3 control arms. You will be happy that you did

    Rusky, all the suspension parts are the same between 2-door and 4-door, so yes, all these parts will work.

    Good luck!
    Bernman
    96+M3 control arms?Then I guess you are saying to use the 99's or am I incorrect?

  10. #35
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    95 M3's used a different front control arm than the 96+ M3's. 96, 97, 98, and 99 all use the same front control arm.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by euro4life
    95 M3's used a different front control arm than the 96+ M3's. 96, 97, 98, and 99 all use the same front control arm.
    Gotcha, So the 96+ is all the same thru 1999.

  12. #37
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    Wow, what a great resource. Should be a DIY sticky!

  13. #38
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    Hey Bernman,
    Would you happen to have tried the non-M sways with the M3 endlinks, attached to M3 struts? Does it work?

    I'm wondering if my non-SP 24mm front bar, attached directly to the struts, would perform similarly to the M3 23mm bar.

    I've searched this and it appears the reverse has been attempted (M3 bar attached to control arms?) but I can't find any specifics other than that one's slightly longer than the other...

  14. #39
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    This will work, but unless you have a larger rear bar as well, the handling balance may be shifted toward understeer. I have not tried this personally.

    I did try connecting the M3 bar to the control arms. Since the M3 bar has longer "arms" than the standard E36 bar, the short non-M endlinks get overstressed and end up making noise. I am sure if used long enough in this configuration the endlink would fail.

  15. #40
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    Yeah, I was thinking if the front bar is reusable, then I'd only have to change the rear one for a configuration that's hopefully very much like the stock M3 configuration if the geometry is indeed similar, as well as the construction (same materals? desnity? flex?).

    And just another thought, perhaps those thick (27mm?) SP sways from 328s could also be used as an inexpensive upgrade for M3s - except attached directly to the strut? Would be interesting, most aftermarket sways appear to be around that thickness. (Of course you'd need to find a matching rear)

    But then again, on the more pessimistic side of things... If the M3 bar + stock endlinks on the control bar has been tried and doesn't work... then by the same token, the reverse (stock bar + m3 endlinks on the struts) would probably fail as well, unless there's more freedom in the design of the M3 endlinks or something?? (I'm totally guessing here)

    So no one else has actually tried this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernman
    This will work, but unless you have a larger rear bar as well, the handling balance may be shifted toward understeer. I have not tried this personally.

    I did try connecting the M3 bar to the control arms. Since the M3 bar has longer "arms" than the standard E36 bar, the short non-M endlinks get overstressed and end up making noise. I am sure if used long enough in this configuration the endlink would fail.

  16. #41
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    Thanks for the write-up. I'll be bookmarking this thread for later use.

  17. #42
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    so it looks like the consensus here is that if you have a 328is, just stick with 328 bars, and don't try using m3 bars? B/c you'd also have to swap struts? Do I have that right?

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelgray6
    so it looks like the consensus here is that if you have a 328is, just stick with 328 bars, and don't try using m3 bars? B/c you'd also have to swap struts? Do I have that right?
    Only for the front. The M3 rear sway bars are interchangeable with all of the E36 cars - they all use the same sway bar links and same attachment points. You just need to make sure that you get the right bushings for whatever bar you're using.
    1998 328i/4 Boston Green
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  19. #44
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    Reviving an old post b/c I'm interested in getting a new suspension. I know nothing about suspension, I just know that mine sucks; on sharp turns I can hear scraping/squeaking from the rear passenger and front drivers side. Is the upgrade in the first post a full suspension replacement?

    I want a full replacement, but nothing heavy duty, a stock or M3 stock suspension would do fine, the car is really just a daily driver. 1995 325i

  20. #45
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    Resurrected

    Does anyone know for sure if the M3 control arms are compatible with 325 axle and would there be a positive change in handling characteristics?

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiScoTeknix
    Resurrected

    Does anyone know for sure if the M3 control arms are compatible with 325 axle and would there be a positive change in handling characteristics?
    They will fit, but you won't get anything out of it. It's not worth the extra $$.

  22. #47
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    can anyone advise on installing rear springs???

    Cosmos - Black l l Lux l HK l OEM clears all around l Depo HID's 55W 5000K l Strut bar

  23. #48
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    Great write up!

  24. #49
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    nice job!!!!

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikese36
    Great write up!
    Quote Originally Posted by 3uroProjektz
    nice job!!!!
    its been on Bimmerdiy.com for ages now as well as BF.c
    (I just wanted to bump for my question heheehe )

    Cosmos - Black l l Lux l HK l OEM clears all around l Depo HID's 55W 5000K l Strut bar

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