Good road and track suspension set up?

[propcar]

I think you would find those two worlds apart in most ways. If you really care about street manners and want MCS, the 1WNR is very well suited and I would put them against a wide range of 2-ways in a race environment and like my chances - spec damper for Spec 46, and we run them on a lot of AER/WRL/Lucky Dog cars that require a 200 treadwear tire since they are light on the initial compression hit which helps load that type of tire. On a racecar, I do like having a knob to control that when budget/rules allow, but these are great. Past that, I think KW is the new leader these days on a polished, capable, moderate budget street/track package.

What ways do you find them worlds apart, you can probably elaborate more than I since you have much more experience with these setups on various platforms and applications.

Jvit27/Bimmerman535i both had/have MCS but cited their shortcomings, so on paper an MCS would be better than a Koni based TCK, but in the real world use, the TCK may be better for street use/occasional track. The TRM damper was a good kit for the money (at the time MCS didn't even exist), and was a fully developed kit that came in a box with everything, no guess work on piecing together anything else. Also, very similar in the end goal MCS/TRM, both 'high pressure' monotubes that are able to handle a wide range of rates 450-1110+, with only a single adjustment knob. Sure the MCS has some feature the TRM didn't have (adjustable pressure), but the TRM's do have adjustable preload, so both damper kits have more than enough options to play with but not too many to get lost. I liked that the TRM's rode pretty well for the rates they were built around, again at the time not many dampers (if any) could compete at the price level, or handle those rates reliably not requiring frequent rebuilds. Certainly a good quality for a setup that sees the road. At the time most people were buying AST4100 and they didn't get the best reputation or reliability, so I avoided them.

I'm not saying MCS aren't worth what they offer, they certainly are, but I'm not convinced they're worlds apart better, send me a set and I'll try em out

[jamesclay]

What ways do you find them worlds apart, you can probably elaborate more than I since you have much more experience with these setups on various platforms and applications.

Jvit27/Bimmerman535i both had/have MCS but cited their shortcomings, so on paper an MCS would be better than a Koni based TCK, but in the real world use, the TCK may be better for street use/occasional track. The TRM damper was a good kit for the money (at the time MCS didn't even exist), and was a fully developed kit that came in a box with everything, no guess work on piecing together anything else. Also, very similar in the end goal MCS/TRM, both 'high pressure' monotubes that are able to handle a wide range of rates 450-1110+, with only a single adjustment knob. Sure the MCS has some feature the TRM didn't have (adjustable pressure), but the TRM's do have adjustable preload, so both damper kits have more than enough options to play with but not too many to get lost. I liked that the TRM's rode pretty well for the rates they were built around, again at the time not many dampers (if any) could compete at the price level, or handle those rates reliably not requiring frequent rebuilds. Certainly a good quality for a setup that sees the road. At the time most people were buying AST4100 and they didn't get the best reputation or reliability, so I avoided them.

I'm not saying MCS aren't worth what they offer, they certainly are, but I'm not convinced they're worlds apart better, send me a set and I'll try em out

I usually don't equate "suspension in a box" to more well-developed than dampers only - it's just different. We sell some of those, and we also create packages specific for a customer's needs pairing all the parts together. A bunch of years ago when we sold Moton they tried the suspension in a box approach for E92 M3 - and over half customers for that type of product ditched the springs, added their own mounts, etc because they wanted something more specific.

Difference a lot of times is level of quality - which is mostly level of precision in the parts used, which translates into range of adjustment and ability to work well in the span of those ranges.

I'm not dumping on any brand. We sell ISC which is a US-supported, Chinese manufactured suspension in a box at a super low price point. They work well. But "well" is a range, and I am pretty confident in all these offerings to a large degree you get what you pay for, if you're the type of customer that is dialed into that.

[TostitoBandito]

i have ground control street/touring coilovers 375/430. After about 6 months, i definitely still love them. The rear is a little difficult to adjust ride height, but the front is very easy. I havent felt the need to adjust them much. The setup is very tolerable on the street, and works well on mountain/canyon roads that i frequently drive on. My reason for choosing these was i didnt need too much adjustment, i just wanted the perfect ride height and a better feel in the suspension. I tried new stock suspension and it was a bit floaty for me but was very capable. Honestly, the real difference for me between the two is in feeling. The car feels like it handles better but the difference in performance is likely negligible. so if your looking for something that will get you lower, allow you to add a decent amount of camber up front and still be great on the street, i would recommend GC.. im not a huge fan of the KW V1's on my other car.

I second the Ground Control kits. I have the street/track hybrid kit. It works well. I have more aggressive 450/550 spring rates and it's still fine on the street (I daily drive it). Puts a big stupid grin on my face. I do adjust the dampers to full soft when not at the track though, to make it slightly more civilized on rough roads and the infernal speed bumps.

My only minor quibble is with their camber plates, which work great but can be a bit noisy because the upper needle bearings aren't encapsulated so they require occasional cleaning and lubrication, and because the bottom of the springs can bind on the perch a bit when they get really dirty (remedied this with some cheap thrust sheets). Not a huge deal for me since I have other regular maintenance I need to do on brakes and whatnot, but I've heard good things about the Vorshlag camber plates and might've gotten those (along with the GC struts/dampers/springs) if I did it over again.

[propcar]

I usually don't equate "suspension in a box" to more well-developed than dampers only - it's just different. We sell some of those, and we also create packages specific for a customer's needs pairing all the parts together. A bunch of years ago when we sold Moton they tried the suspension in a box approach for E92 M3 - and over half customers for that type of product ditched the springs, added their own mounts, etc because they wanted something more specific.

Difference a lot of times is level of quality - which is mostly level of precision in the parts used, which translates into range of adjustment and ability to work well in the span of those ranges.

I'm not dumping on any brand. We sell ISC which is a US-supported, Chinese manufactured suspension in a box at a super low price point. They work well. But "well" is a range, and I am pretty confident in all these offerings to a large degree you get what you pay for, if you're the type of customer that is dialed into that.

Sorry, I didn't mean to infer that a 'suspension' in a box is a good choice for everybody vs a bespoke package. But for many, especially those budget conscious; an entry level 'tried and tested kit' from the same vendor can be attractive. Obviously a solution put together by a reputable Vendor with all the adjusters/camber plates/RSM/springs etc. should be fine, and a single point of support makes it easy to sort out any issues. It's good to have as many options as we have on our E36 platform.

[das borgen]

Another vote for TCK. I've yet to find a better compromise, and believe me i've tried.

I endorse JVIT's opinion

[RBNetEngr]

I think you would find those two worlds apart in most ways. If you really care about street manners and want MCS, the 1WNR is very well suited and I would put them against a wide range of 2-ways in a race environment and like my chances - spec damper for Spec 46, and we run them on a lot of AER/WRL/Lucky Dog cars that require a 200 treadwear tire since they are light on the initial compression hit which helps load that type of tire. On a racecar, I do like having a knob to control that when budget/rules allow, but these are great. Past that, I think KW is the new leader these days on a polished, capable, moderate budget street/track package.

James,

Which KW setup are you referring to? V1? V2? V3? Clubsport?

I have a '95 M3 (60k miles) with original suspension and bushings, and added Eibach F/R swaybars (set to soft) and x-brace. I track it with 200 treadwear tires (currently the amazing Bridgestone RE-71R). I was looking at Bilstein PSS9 or KW (primarily Clubsport, but would consider V3 or maybe V2). The goal is to improve track capabilities, but still be able to drive in the road (Texas).

Any recommendations?

Thank you,

-rb