For experienced drivers

[sportedge]

Hi all! I own a very clean 1998 Z3. It has the M44 engine. It's just a little underpowered for the car, but with a higher ratio LSD, low restriction exhaust and intake and a remap, the car is now perfect... almost! My dream car is a 1968 corvette (convertible, of course). I always have an eye open for a Z3M. Any color, any shape. But they are just too expensive for my budget.
I have the opportunity to trade my high mileage Z3 with a low mileage 1999 E36 M3 convertible. The guy told me the suspension and the brakes needed replacement, and the top doesn't operate. I'm a good mechanic and I have access to a shop. So no big deal, unless the parts are very expensive. Oh, and the M3 is automatic...
My question is: Has anyone did the same trade or driven both cars at some points? What is your opinion? The M3 is WAY bigger than the Z3, and has to be a lot heavier. But it has 100hp more than the Z3. How do the M3 compare to the Z3 in the twisties? A friend of mine has a Z4 with the 3.0L, and every times we go for a ride, he rather drive mine. My Z3 is a blast to drive in back country roads. If I go for a trade, I wont be able to enjoy the M3 on the small twisted roads until all that snow melts (4-5 months wait), and it will be too late to change idea... What do you think?
The Z3 is perfect for toying around. Once you pryed yourself in, you get to sit on the hardest seats ever. After a few hours of this, you need to stop and go for a walk, as opposed to the confort i got to feel in the M3...
Thanks!

[Twistytee]

It all depends on what you value in a car like this. I've driven both but have never owned an M nor a Z. I did recently sell a well sorted '76 TR6 that I had tuned the suspension for the twisties as you describe - sport lowering springs, HD valved Armstrong shocks, poly suspension bushings, uprated brakes, the works. The car only had 104 hp/143 ftlb torque but it also weighed less than 2,500 lbs. it was like driving a tricked-out go cart and was a real visceral driving experience. My e36 is very different. It's well balanced, relatively comfortable, not fast but quick enough, but nowhere near as tossable as the TR6. That being said, the 325 can be fun in the twisties and also serve as a more relaxed commuter or date night car. My wife avoided riding in the TR (small, noisy, carb fuel smell, no a/c) but enjoys trips in the e36. The M3 is faster than mine, has a better suspension set-up, different trim, but is otherwise identical. I sometimes miss the TR6 but I was ready for a change.

If the top is non functional on the M3, plan on $300 - $600 to fix it (new top, straps, or replacement frame and top). Most of the motor and electrical gremlins can be sorted out with the tips here and helpful posters. Plan on $1,500 - $2k for a suspension overhaul. The auto on the M3 is better than the 4 speed GM unit, but it is less engaging than a stick. Did he give you any other details on the M3? If the suspension is shot and the top isn't working, he could have left other deferred maintenance that can quickly add up. Might not be such a good trade if you start adding up all those costs.

[sportedge]

It all depends on what you value in a car like this. I've driven both but have never owned an M nor a Z. I did recently sell a well sorted '76 TR6 that I had tuned the suspension for the twisties as you describe - sport lowering springs, HD valved Armstrong shocks, poly suspension bushings, uprated brakes, the works. The car only had 104 hp/143 ftlb torque but it also weighed less than 2,500 lbs. it was like driving a tricked-out go cart and was a real visceral driving experience. My e36 is very different. It's well balanced, relatively comfortable, not fast but quick enough, but nowhere near as tossable as the TR6. That being said, the 325 can be fun in the twisties and also serve as a more relaxed commuter or date night car. My wife avoided riding in the TR (small, noisy, carb fuel smell, no a/c) but enjoys trips in the e36. The M3 is faster than mine, has a better suspension set-up, different trim, but is otherwise identical. I sometimes miss the TR6 but I was ready for a change.

If the top is non functional on the M3, plan on $300 - $600 to fix it (new top, straps, or replacement frame and top). Most of the motor and electrical gremlins can be sorted out with the tips here and helpful posters. Plan on $1,500 - $2k for a suspension overhaul. The auto on the M3 is better than the 4 speed GM unit, but it is less engaging than a stick. Did he give you any other details on the M3? If the suspension is shot and the top isn't working, he could have left other deferred maintenance that can quickly add up. Might not be such a good trade if you start adding up all those costs.

I love the TR6. I was looking for one at some point. What color was it?
The M3 I'm reffering at was brought to this shop by the PO who was in a desparate situation for cash. All the shop knows, is that the car is driveable, it's in near perfect apparent condition (small dent near the antenna), the thing about the brakes and suspension, and the top. They told me that there was a light in the dash with the top logo light up. They have a report of clean title and no reported accidents.
So the automatic isn't a turn off? I was thinking the top issue was a bad switch somewhere, but you're saying it could be more complex. From what I'm starting to read, trouble with the top is frequent. It takes 5 sec from top up to top down on the Z3. And it's manual, so it always works!
Not fast but quick enough is good for me. Plus, like you mentionned, the wife is bond to like it better...
Is the M3 a high maintenance car? Do they age well? It is very easy to work on the Z3.

[Twistytee]

My TR6 was originally Maple Brown but was redone in Carmine Red during an engine out repaint. It had the original 4 speed manual and I left it that way as it wasn't a highway car. It was easy to work on, parts are plentiful, but also required a lot of patience. I became somewhat proficient in the ability to do roadside repairs. The top was a simple manual Robbins - easy up and easy down.

My e36 is an auto. I didn't specifically choose that, but it was a clean car and I knew the owner history. It drives well and I don't mind the transmission given the traffic I have to deal with. The ZF auto in the M3 is a better tranny than mine. It's a 5 speed with overdrive, shifts quicker and is more durable than the GM auto. It can have issues with the valve body and shifting into overdrive, but I don't think it's particularly common. Most on here will tell you to go with a 5 speed manual tranny (or do a swap). We are owner enthusiasts and many prefer to row their own gears.

Maintenance on these cars is manageable if you do your own work. Otherwise it quickly gets costly. The cooling system is the harbinger for other problems and can quickly lead to a blown head gasket and warped/cracked head if not proactively addressed. The stock M3 suspension is set up well and provides for spirited driving, but rubber components can have a short life. There's a lot of threads on here about poly upgrades, rtab reinforcements, adjustable camber arms, etc. Best to do some quick research, create a budget of likely repairs and maintenance and then make a decision if the math works and you want a change. You can easily spend >$4k in the first couple years of ownership just doing suspension work, deferred maintenance, and upgrades so keep that in mind.

[zellamay]

They are different cars. I've not driven an M3, but I own a 2.8 Z3 and a Z3M Roadster. They are different cars, and they are more similar than the 2 cars you're talking about. So, if power and comfort are prime, make the trade. If you like tossing the car around, don't. Also, you described your car as "perfect ... almost". So why are you considering a trade? I loved my Z3, but fell victim to the horsepower thing. I'm selling the Z3.

[flyfishvt]

The only light in the dash that looks like a top,logo is for the rollover bar warning light. It's part of the SRS system. Get it scanned and find out what the issue is. Roll over warning light will prevent the top from operating bug so will 2 dozen other things.

The m3 vert will never be as nimble as your Z3 in the twisties. By most standards it's a very heavy car. A good guess is that it weighs about 700lbs more than your Z. An e36 vert weighs about 300lbs more than an eE36 coupe or sedan. I've owned 4 e36 verts. 2 of them automatics 2 5 speed. My current m3 vert is a 5 speed. I've also owned several e36 coupes. To be honest the e36 vert is a bit sluggish in the corners compared to an e36 coupe. You can upgrade the suspension and improve the handling. It's not difficult and your budget is the only limiting factor. The rear suspension on your Z3 is borrowed from the e30 but it's very good for that car.

Sounds like you're really attached to the Z3 chassis. Why not look into swapping in a m52. They are easy to get and very inexpensive.

[sportedge]

The deal fell off. Way too rusty underneath. And when I wrote almost perfect... It's because it lacks power a bit. But I have enough experience to know that no matter how strong an engine may be, I'll always end up asking for more!!!