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Thread: Air bag control module 2000 Z3 Roadster

  1. #26
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    Wondering if you found the side impact sensors and where this saga is going!
    I like the unicorns.
    '99 Z3 Coupe - Jet Black/Black (1-of-114)
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  2. #27
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    Sorry to have left this thread idle -- I moved on to tackle other gremlins. But I intend to tackle this one by the end of next week. I have been meaning to take the driver's seat out anyway; it's unable to move up and down and I need to tinker with it.

    But I'm hoping when I do remove the seat and pull back the carpet that it's not corroded to hell. From the photos and info here, seems like it's the perfect place for moisture to sit and damage impact sensors.
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  3. #28
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    And we're back!

    Wow, it's pretty grody down there. For starters, both the 13mm in front of the seat and 16mm bolts behind the seat were pretty well rusted up. The 13mm were tough, but not impossible without some "Specialist" WD-40 Rust Release Penetrant applied a couple of times over the course of two weeks.

    The 16mm were a greater challenge, though. They pushed me over the edge to purchase a cordless impact wrench (18V, 325ft-lbs). The one closest to the door gave pretty easy, but the one closest to the transmission tunnel was too close to the seatback to align the wrench at a good angle. But there was enough room to fit a socket wrench with a long-ish handle, which was enough torque. I waited until the seat was free, and moved it into a better position to remove the 16mm seatbelt bolt.

    Since the nuts and bolts were fairly well-rusted, I ordered replacements. The 16mm nuts at the rear of the seat rails are M10 x 28.5, part #52108233497. The front nuts were a little harder to track down, as they don't seem to be directly labeled on RealOEM, but they appear to be M8 x 1.25 collar nuts, part #07119927022. I also ordered the M10 nut 72118132916 that held the seatbelt to the seat, while I was at it.

    And wow... pretty messy underneath!

    20170327_192500.jpg
    That's some concours-ready upholstery, amiryt guys?

    It looked a lot better after some vacuuming, but between the water stains, rust, and assorted cigarette burns, I was pretty sure the crash sensor would be in pretty poor condition. There was the small matter of removing the carpet, which looked a beast to do. I can see why one of the popular suggestions is to simply cut the carpet close to the transmission tunnel.

    Fortunately, there is the seam between the front and rear carpet sections, which does pull back just enough to get a good view of the crash sensor. Here's what I found:

    20170327_202139.jpg

    Just as predicted, the tech doing the airbag wiring bulletin on this car left the original connector and wiring for the crash sensor (the loose yellow connector at top). He just put in the replacement wiring without removing the original. And the wiring does match what is going into the airbag computer.

    The nuts holding the sensor to the body are rusted as hell. I can't tell if they're hex, phillips, or torx or anything. I disconnected the wiring, sprayed some penetrant on the nuts, and plan to come back to this when I have a replacement crash sensor ready.
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  4. #29
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    Free if you want it.

    IMG_1439.JPG


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I like the unicorns.
    '99 Z3 Coupe - Jet Black/Black (1-of-114)
    '99 M Coupe - Estoril Blue/Black (1-of-82)
    '03 540iT - Sterling Gray/Black (1-of-24)
    '16 Z4 sDrive35i - Estoril Blue/Walnut (1-of-8)

  5. #30
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    Replied with address in PM, thanks a bunch!
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  6. #31
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    UPDATE: REPLACING / INSTALLING A SIDE IMPACT SENSOR

    When I last left off, I had taken the seat out of the driver's side. The Bently manual was not actually very helpful for the procedure, but the best guide I've found was this video by X8R, which sells seat bushings for the Z3.

    Other than what's in the video, and what I said before about the liberal application of rust penetrant, I can recommend a couple other things to ease the process. First, before moving the seat around, apply a bunch of tape to the plastic bits that line the cabin, near the door sill. Don't be afraid to use four or more layers of masking tape, especially towards the rear section.

    20170409_170427.jpg

    Ahead of time, I ordered replacement nuts and bolts to hold the seat down. But I was given a pretty long time quote until they'd arrive, so I submerged the rusty hardware that I had in a mason jar full of regular white vinegar. I let them sit for about two weeks, wiped them dry, brushed off a great deal of muck with a toothbrush, applied a touch of WD40 to protect against rust, and put them back to work.

    It turns out the crash sensors are fastened with T25 torx sheet metal screws. The one closest to the tunnel gave with a bit of penetrant and leverage, but the screw closest to the door was rusted to hell. If you can't extract that screw, the best thing to do is try to pop the sensor straight out.

    20170401_142950.jpg

    That's what mine looked like. The torx sheet metal screw fastens into a device called a Prestol Cage (07129901746), which expands to hold the sensor to the body as the screw is threaded through. If your prestol cage and screw are rusted together like mine, and you have to pop the sensor straight out, you'll likely bend the square-shaped mounting hole outwards and have to tap it back into shape with a hammer before installing a fresh prestol cage.

    2017-04-10 18.33.13.jpg

    There's a fresh prestol cage on the left. It was difficult to locate, because RealOEM included the part in a diagram, but removed the corresponding part number. On the right is the old T25 torx sheet metal screw, which I wasn't able to locate in RealOEM. Based on its dimensions, the closest part I could find was a #10-12 x 3/4" 6-Lobe Drive Pan Head Grade 18-8 Type A Point Stainless Steel Sheet Metal Screw, from Fastenal, which is in the center of the photo. It's close enough.

    20170409_170137.jpg

    That's my 65 77 6 905 454 MRSA3-WP replacement sensor installed. JoshS was very kind in sending me sensor 65 77 8 381 564, which while dimensionally the same, has a slightly different connector. Apparently BMW is extremely picky when it comes to crash sensors, and goes through many iterations of these sensors. If you happen to have a vehicle that uses a 65 77 8 381 564 sensor, send me a PM and I'll happily mail it to you (paying it forward!).

    When trying to line the seat back up, thread the front holes through the screws first, then try lining up the rear hole that's closest to the drive shaft tunnel. That one bolt was the trickiest to remove, and at least for me, it was the most difficult to re-attach. Make sure all the seat connectors are re-attached before plugging in the battery and moving the seat around.

    The new module requires no special coding; just wipe the errors from the Airbag system in INPA (F2/E36 --> Body --> Airbag ...). Here's what my error log in INPA looked like after wiping the errors:

    after_left_crash_sensor_install.jpg
    Look, no errors on the left side! Though I still need to replace the right one.

    ... to be continued
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  7. #32
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    I am not sure if I read correctly. Did you get a used module? What part number is it now?

    For both L&R airbags to throw errors together, there is either a wiring fault, or possibly a coding fault. But at least you don't have "Internal ECU error", so you have a good functional module.



    I would have to dig up some documents (but I believe user LannVouivre posted them) that showed the new MRSZ3 v3.0 having a slight difference in wiring.



    Regarding crash data, it usually takes 3 crashes to soft-disable our cars' airbag modules.
    Last edited by 328 Power 04; 04-11-2017 at 08:53 PM.
    -Abel

    - E36 328is ~210-220whp: Lots of Mods.
    - 2000 Z3: Many Mods.
    - 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual 47-50mpg
    - 1999 S52 Estoril M Coupe
    - 2014 328d Wagon, self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs
    - 2019 M2 Competition, self-tuned, 504whp
    - 2016 Mini Cooper S

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by 328 Power 04 View Post
    I am not sure if I read correctly. Did you get a used module? What part number is it now?
    Sorry, I just realized that I didn't put up hardly any info about the replacement SRS module. It's a 65776908896 V3.0 MRSZ3 (same as the original one in the car). As far as I know, it's only been crashed once. Photo below:

    _DSC2850.jpg



    Quote Originally Posted by 328 Power 04 View Post
    For both L&R airbags to throw errors together, there is either a wiring fault, or possibly a coding fault. But at least you don't have "Internal ECU error", so you have a good functional module.
    Do you think it's worth it to re-code the airbag module to see if the right crash sensor error goes away?
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  9. #34
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    I think I would.
    -Abel

    - E36 328is ~210-220whp: Lots of Mods.
    - 2000 Z3: Many Mods.
    - 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual 47-50mpg
    - 1999 S52 Estoril M Coupe
    - 2014 328d Wagon, self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs
    - 2019 M2 Competition, self-tuned, 504whp
    - 2016 Mini Cooper S

  10. #35
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    Sad news, friends. Re-coding the module didn't make the error go away.

    But I do have an eBay alert set up for the next time one pops up for cheap.
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  11. #36
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    Look into the wiring. I wouldn't blame the module now.
    -Abel

    - E36 328is ~210-220whp: Lots of Mods.
    - 2000 Z3: Many Mods.
    - 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual 47-50mpg
    - 1999 S52 Estoril M Coupe
    - 2014 328d Wagon, self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs
    - 2019 M2 Competition, self-tuned, 504whp
    - 2016 Mini Cooper S

  12. #37
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    I see I was mentioned! Wee!

    Here's the TSB info again.
    TSB 72 04 00: sensors for side airbags, mrs 3 fault codes 16/17

    Step 1 says if airbag control unit is 65 77 8 386 192, replace with 65 77 6 908 896
    Step 2 says that if impact sensor wires (pin 20 white/blue, pin 21 white/yellow on X74) are not a twisted pair, replace with PN 61 10 6 914 295
    Step 3 says if the 896 module is installed and the satellite sensors have twisted pair wires, replace the affected airbag sensor with 65 77 6 454

    So if you have an 896, maybe you need to check the other parts and make sure they match what the TSB wants. It's possible someone performed this change in the past, made a mistake, and just gave up on it.

  13. #38
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    YET ANOTHER UPDATE: PASSENGER CRASH SENSOR EXTRACTED

    As it turns out, the passenger side is much easier to work on than the driver's. Bolts were much easier to break loose, and the carpet was much more flexible and easier to lift up and separate. This what I found beneath the carpet:

    20170416_163323.jpg

    Wiring is consistent with driver's side and the airbag control module: original wiring was left in the wiring harness, but a new set of wires and connectors were added in as per the LannVouivre's TSB. The wires appear to be of a slightly larger diameter/heavier gauge than the original. Wiring appeared to be in good condition with no apparent corrosion or breakage.

    Same kind of corrosion as on the driver's side, but just a little less so. I was able to back out both torx screws on the passenger's side, whereas I had to rip the door-side screw out on the driver's side, taking the prestol cage with it. But in both cases, the door-side screws were the most corroded of the two.

    20170416_164043.jpg

    Part number is same as driver's side sensor: 65 77 6 905 454. The corrosion reminds me on what you'd find on an old, exploded alkaline battery.

    20170416_164051.jpg

    On a slightly related note, I visited the local BMW dealership to see if I could get a printout of service history for the car, but no such luck. They said they'd have service history if it were serviced at that dealership, but I'd have to call the original dealership where the car was purchased and serviced to get more information. I believe it was initially purchased in Virginia.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by LannVouivre View Post
    I see I was mentioned! Wee!
    But of course! Your information was essential in figuring out what the hell is going on with the car!
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  14. #39
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    Hello guys,

    I'm from the Netherlands and have the same issue with my 2000 Z3.
    luckily i found this thread, wich made things much more understandable.
    I still have a few questions, maybe you can help me.
    My Z3 has two OBD ports, one under the hood(round) and the OBD2 port under the dash left.
    Wich one to use to reset/code the replacement Airbag unit? A BMW Mechanic told me that, when i use the wrong OBD port to diagnose the airbagunit, it can ruin the unit?? Is this true? Never heard about it, but makes me little bit scared to diagnose the replacement unit...
    I bought an second hand unit with the old number and try this first.
    I also bought a new belt tensioner for testing, because i could not wipe error codes on defective unit. Can i leave it in the car or should i mount the old belt tensioner before coding / resetting error codes?
    Wich (cheap) tool to use to reset/ code the airbag units?
    A lot of questions and some are mayby already discussed, but i want to get rid of this annoying airbag problem.
    If this doesn't work i'm gonna fit a superseded unit with the two crash sensors.

  15. #40
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    You need to use the under the hood, round 20-pin port for airbag module, diagnostics and coding. No, you cannot damage anything by trying on the interior OBD plug. It will just not connect. (Airbag is not wired to the interior port at all.) BMW Mechanic was wrong.

    Old (correct) airbag unit will work fine. Install replacement tensioner first, as the old tensioner may have shorted the airbag unit in the first place.

    Cheap tool/best tool is this setup for Windows laptop.

    I put instructions how to set up, and how to code a module in there, in the first post.
    -Abel

    - E36 328is ~210-220whp: Lots of Mods.
    - 2000 Z3: Many Mods.
    - 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual 47-50mpg
    - 1999 S52 Estoril M Coupe
    - 2014 328d Wagon, self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs
    - 2019 M2 Competition, self-tuned, 504whp
    - 2016 Mini Cooper S

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinniebase View Post
    A BMW Mechanic told me that, when i use the wrong OBD port to diagnose the airbagunit, it can ruin the unit?? Is this true? Never heard about it, but makes me little bit scared to diagnose the replacement unit...
    As 328 Power 04 said, you cannot damage anything by trying the interior plug. Nut also note that your interior OBD port must have its cover/cap attached to be able to use the circular port beneath the hood. The cap for the OBD port has pins that engage with the port while it is covered, potentially preventing a user from tying both ports at the same time.

    As far as the question with the belt tensioner: if the new tensioner is not already installed, install the old unit first. Then install the new airbag module and code the module. If there are any errors related to the tensioner, try to erase them.

    Then, if the code for the tensioner does not go away, install the new tensioner and try to wipe the errors from the air bag module again.

    I say this because if your airbag module has gone bad, it is possible that there is no actual issue with the old tensioner. You could sell the new tensioner or keep it on hand as a spare.

    I recommend the tool that 328 mentioned. There is an expensive Peake Research tool that can erase airbag codes, but it is much cheaper to go with the USB to 20 pin connector and the open source software. You can do so much more with that software than you can ever hope to do with the Peak Research reset tool.
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  17. #42
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    Unless the old tensioner was the problem unit that caused the airbag module to go into Internal Fault in the first place. On my 2000 roadster, it was the driver's tensioner is what made mine go to error 240.
    -Abel

    - E36 328is ~210-220whp: Lots of Mods.
    - 2000 Z3: Many Mods.
    - 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual 47-50mpg
    - 1999 S52 Estoril M Coupe
    - 2014 328d Wagon, self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs
    - 2019 M2 Competition, self-tuned, 504whp
    - 2016 Mini Cooper S

  18. #43
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    Very usefull information guys. Thank you very much!
    I have an Original USB Ross Tech HEX+CAN Vag-Com cable, and a 20 pin connector. I am gonna setup my laptop tomorrow, just downloaded the INPA package from the 328 diagnostic thread.
    I only dont know, if the Vag-Com Cable has the ftdi chip. I will see tomorrow.
    I allready fitted the new belt tensioner, because i did some seat repairs also. I think i gonne leave it in and try it. It only took me 40 euros.
    I will keep you informed.

  19. #44
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    Yes, you can set up your Rosstech cable to work, but you have to set it up with the alternate drivers http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/usb...-com-port.html and "load VCP" in device manager to get a Serial COM port. Then you have to load the FTDI drivers to the newly created virtual com port.

    A little more challenging, but possible.


    Better instructions https://sites.google.com/site/imnuts...ch-vcp-drivers
    Last edited by 328 Power 04; 04-18-2017 at 03:35 PM.
    -Abel

    - E36 328is ~210-220whp: Lots of Mods.
    - 2000 Z3: Many Mods.
    - 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual 47-50mpg
    - 1999 S52 Estoril M Coupe
    - 2014 328d Wagon, self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs
    - 2019 M2 Competition, self-tuned, 504whp
    - 2016 Mini Cooper S

  20. #45
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    I made the INPA setup on my laptop and installed the USB serial port with the Ross Tech cable. Worked flawless, thx to the excellent guide....
    Tomorrow evening i try to code the airbag unit. Now first sleep. Thx again.

  21. #46
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    How is the cause of an internal fault on the airbag module identified so that you don't destroy the replacement?

  22. #47
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    Well on my roadster, it happened right after I put in a used driver's tensioner into the car (it was given to me to try by someone local, silly thing to do). I only had a code for the tensioner before. Right after plugging it in, I got Internal Error when trying to clear.

    So I can only assume it was the tensioner. I still have the used one, but I am unwilling to try again for proof.
    -Abel

    - E36 328is ~210-220whp: Lots of Mods.
    - 2000 Z3: Many Mods.
    - 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual 47-50mpg
    - 1999 S52 Estoril M Coupe
    - 2014 328d Wagon, self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs
    - 2019 M2 Competition, self-tuned, 504whp
    - 2016 Mini Cooper S

  23. #48
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    In OP's case, I would wager that the sensors were shorting.
    -Abel

    - E36 328is ~210-220whp: Lots of Mods.
    - 2000 Z3: Many Mods.
    - 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual 47-50mpg
    - 1999 S52 Estoril M Coupe
    - 2014 328d Wagon, self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs
    - 2019 M2 Competition, self-tuned, 504whp
    - 2016 Mini Cooper S

  24. #49
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    Tried to get connect to the car with Rosstech HEX+CAN and OBD2 to 20 pin connector, to code the replacement airbag unit. Ended with fault IFH-0003. and Ediabas error 95 SYS-0005. No green lights in INPA on battery and ignition.
    Checked all settings multiple times and read the entire Z3 Diagnostic thread and troubleshooting guide. Also the official BMW INPA trouble guide.
    Can't figure it out. Can it be the Rosstech cable? Do i have to bridge pins 7&8 inside cable?
    I have an Original carsoft serial interface also, possible to use this? I rather use the usb version...
    Last edited by Vinniebase; 04-21-2017 at 02:05 PM.

  25. #50
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    Try running INPA "As Administrator" (if on Win10).

    Then make sure the OBD.ini file and USB Serial Port COM ports match.

    Then if still not working, then get a USB VAG KKL cable, or BMW K+DCAN.
    -Abel

    - E36 328is ~210-220whp: Lots of Mods.
    - 2000 Z3: Many Mods.
    - 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual 47-50mpg
    - 1999 S52 Estoril M Coupe
    - 2014 328d Wagon, self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs
    - 2019 M2 Competition, self-tuned, 504whp
    - 2016 Mini Cooper S

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