Sourcing a loan for 2003 540i M-sport

[blackknight530i]

I'm actually with Danny on this, I would suggest getting the M5 over the 540i M-Sport, unless you want an automatic. Considering the price premium people want for 03 M-Sports, you're way better off getting the M5 that it robbed the parts bin from and getting better reliability, more power, better brakes, LSD differential, better leather, etc. The M-Sport just doesn't compare. That said, you couldn't get the M5 in automatic, so if you absolutely have to have that, it makes sense to get the M-Sport in auto trim. You'll probably have better luck finding someone to give you a loan for a M5, since it's much more of a collector car and will hold its value, if not go up.

[masbury]

Red;

You're still a young guy. I've been at the car game since the 60's. Credit Unions are the absolute way to go. Example;

Last year bought a 2002 Mercedes Benz SL500, triple black (Keep the booing to a dull roar please!). Got it for $8800 which was $2500 back of wholesale book at the time. Had 90K miles and needed nothing except spark plugs and a trans service. Icon Credit Union gave me a 100% loan on the $8800, interest @ 3.4%.
3 months ago, bought a 2000 E39 M-Sport. 116K miles, needed radiator etc. Got it for $2600. Mountain America Credit Union financed the whole $2600 at 4.3%.

Short story, GO FIND A CREDIT UNION, because if you want this particular car, you will be kicking yourself in the ass if you wait and miss it.

By the way, beat the crap out of the seller on the price, that way you can get a smaller loan.

See ya

[LASwede]

The perceived value of the car, meaning how much joy you get out of it, is probably what matters in the end, and the buyer ultimately decides if it was a good or bad purchase. I was planning to buy an E39 M5, but driving it in Los Angeles traffic, which mostly is bumper to bumper, stop and go, traffic would likely wear out the clutch much faster.

I would still love to have an M5, but the 2003 540i M-Technic made more sense to me, especially getting the Automatic. I fount one for $7300, and could not be happier. I still have to put in $2K in initial repairs, i.e PS hoses, front brakes, fan clutch, etc, but other than that the car is absolutely mint with an immaculate service history. This is my 27th car, and my fourth BMW. Despite frequent trips to the gas station, this car brings a smile to my face every time I drive it, That is worth a lot to me.

[AK_5eries]

If you own your home, equity is definitely the way to go.

[BimmrMeUpSnotty]

Yea, a loan on a used luxury car is the easiest way to destroy your credit quickly. Just wait till the timing chains break....

Lol, You'll only destroy your credit if you don't maintain your payments, you wait for your timing chain to break??? You're supposed to maintain your car properly, that way the timing chain, and guides don't break..... Goes for everything else too.

OP, just get a personal loan either from your bank, or a credit union. if you were in the service, is there a Navy Federal near you? They are awesome, and you don't even have to tell them what it is for.

[lesguy]

agreed on creditunion.
and if you dont think you qualify for one, most likely, you do. Search. Chances are just living in a certain area qualifies you to be a member

[dk500]

Lol, You'll only destroy your credit if you don't maintain your payments, you wait for your timing chain to break??? You're supposed to maintain your car properly, that way the timing chain, and guides don't break..... Goes for everything else too.

OP, just get a personal loan either from your bank, or a credit union. if you were in the service, is there a Navy Federal near you? They are awesome, and you don't even have to tell them what it is for.

By that I meant I was under the assumption that OP couldn't afford the car, and the moment a large ticket item came up he would've been screwed, since he already took a loan out on the car and would then me stuck either paying the loan or fixing the car, but not both.

[BimmrMeUpSnotty]

By that I meant I was under the assumption that OP couldn't afford the car, and the moment a large ticket item came up he would've been screwed, since he already took a loan out on the car and would then me stuck either paying the loan or fixing the car, but not both.

Yeah, but he'll be ok, even when things break.

[MikeGB]

Never mind.

[Red Ryder]

People sure are quick to make assumptions about others’ financial situation. I can understand due to my lack of loan savvy I may have come off as someone who doesn’t know what they’re getting into, I know that happens a lot just due to what I see in the e39 Facebook groups I’ve peroused. Really it’s just that I don’t have much experience with loans because I’ve always paid cash for everything my whole life. I’ve been driving the same car for 10 years, so yeah, I am just learning about car loans now. I just didn’t think an old car with a small loan was a big deal, but I am finding out why it is. $10k is not much for a great car, but it’s still a good chunk of change no matter how you slice it so I prefer to finance it regardless. And even if something very expensive came up and somehow I didn’t have money for it for whatever reason, I have a 2^nd car to use while I save or DIY it.

I cancelled the PPI, the seller had some records but was not able to find all that I was requesting, nor could he could verify the age of the clutch and a couple other things. There were also a couple items like thrust arm bushings he did not want to replace, but that had been recommended on one of the maintenance invoices, and I did not want to have to deal with that and the body work even though I had negotiated the price down for that already. I wanted it a lot but started to think I could find something better. I stuck with it for a while because the seller was great, and the price was fine, and I’m a big e39 fan. But told him I am holding off for now due to not having more concrete information and he was very understanding. I felt bad because he lost some paperwork when he moved, and if he had that it might be a different story, but oh well.

So there’s that story.

VANOS failures are rare, and not even very expensive usually, in the M5. Timing chain guides arent cheap and are a very common problem for 540i's. For $14k you can easily find a decent M5, or two or three non M-Sport 540i's. Very little to justify the cost of an M-Sport tbh, its an options package not a separate model. To each their own though

Yea I wasn’t putting too much weight on the VANOS seals, even though it would bother me to hear the rattling. The only M5’s I’ve seen for $15-$18k had a lot of miles on them, but I haven’t looked extensively since I wasn’t planning on buying one. But to a certain extent I do think a well maintained car with more miles is better than a car with lower miles that might not have been maintained well. Still from what I’ve read and seen, the M5 is more expensive to own and fix than the 540. But you would know more than I do.

I thought about buying a 2002 Sport, but since I was not buying an M5 I at least wanted the next step down which obviously comes down to looks since the engine is still the same between a 2003 and 2002 540. However, after everything I have done with my car from a drivetrain swap to adding all the cosmetic bits I want it to have…I just don’t want to chase parts on another car. A 2002 looks nice enough, but I would want the M door sills, bumper covers, etc.

Maybe try hitting up your parents for a loan, all they can say is no.
If you can wrench on a car the maintenance costs aren't that high.
Your biggest expense would be the cam chain guides, then a clutch, and replacing worn out suspension.

I would never ask my parents for a loan, but that’s me. I would definitely learn to work on a BMW, I had already started watching DIY videos for various jobs. I would have to buy some new tools though.

The chain guides are plastic, right? If metal ones would work, someone who machined them would make a nice profit in the aftermarket.

............

If you're still thinking about financing, maybe apply at the dealership and apply with your credit union rather than your bank. Also see if the credit union will do better than the dealership once you get the loan.

Also, there's nothing really special about the 03 unless you're a purist. Everything on the car is going to be in a state of decay and need replacing anyway. If I had to do it all over again, I'd buy an older cheaper model car for $3-4k or whatever they're going for, and then fix everything up. I think that would cost so much less in the long run.

Interesting story, I’m glad it worked out for you. I did apply with a credit union and got a great rate and all, but that all changed when I told them the car was out of state. I will have to look into other credit unions around me.

I thought about buying a 2002, but I’ve already fixed up one car…the next car I kind of just want it to be what I want from the get go.

FWIW: I had to use my home equity account to cover part of my last car purchase because I hadn't sold my old car yet and I found a deal too good to pass up. I don't think this was entirely legit but I paid it off quickly and that was all the bank cared about.

If you own your home, equity is definitely the way to go.

We have owned our home for 4.5 years, so I’d have to see how much equity is build up in it. Probably not much.

I'm actually with Danny on this, I would suggest getting the M5 over the 540i M-Sport, unless you want an automatic. Considering the price premium people want for 03 M-Sports, you're way better off getting the M5 that it robbed the parts bin from and getting better reliability, more power, better brakes, LSD differential, better leather, etc. The M-Sport just doesn't compare. That said, you couldn't get the M5 in automatic, so if you absolutely have to have that, it makes sense to get the M-Sport in auto trim. You'll probably have better luck finding someone to give you a loan for a M5, since it's much more of a collector car and will hold its value, if not go up.

No automatic for me in a car this old.

I was under the impression the M5 was more expensive to own and maintain. Do tell, because they are much more abundant. Though it seems like if I want one with under 100k miles it’s close to $20k or just over.

I was looking into Hagerty to insure this car.

You're still a young guy. I've been at the car game since the 60's. Credit Unions are the absolute way to go. Example;

Last year bought a 2002 Mercedes Benz SL500, triple black (Keep the booing to a dull roar please!). Got it for $8800 which was $2500 back of wholesale book at the time. Had 90K miles and needed nothing except spark plugs and a trans service. Icon Credit Union gave me a 100% loan on the $8800, interest @ 3.4%.
3 months ago, bought a 2000 E39 M-Sport. 116K miles, needed radiator etc. Got it for $2600. Mountain America Credit Union financed the whole $2600 at 4.3%.

Short story, GO FIND A CREDIT UNION, because if you want this particular car, you will be kicking yourself in the ass if you wait and miss it.

By the way, beat the crap out of the seller on the price, that way you can get a smaller loan.

Here is what happened at Kemba credit union. I asked about an $11k loan, they had to tack on $100 for some reason I don’t remember. The loan was for $11,100, 48 months, and the rate was just under 4% and if I only paid the minimum payment for the life of the loan I would have only paid $900 in interest. After everywhere else I went, when I heard this I was like sweet I’m in. Then they asked where the car was and I said out of state, and all that changed, rate went to 7%, loan type changed as well, and she said some other stuff but I was so annoyed I stopped listening.

Were the Merc and BM out of state? I agree the credit union is the way to go if it’s in state, but otherwise it’s no better it seems. Or maybe I need to try a different credit union, I don’t know. Figured they’d all be the same when it comes to risk.

That’s how I felt, that this car is so rare and this one looked great and has a seller I could work with. The mileage, albeit high, was low relative to the age of the car. And I love that the car has some pedigree to it. The only thing I didn’t like was that I really wanted a black interior and it was tan, it didn’t have the NAV, no heated seats, and it had some dents. I know the body guy at EAG and he quoted me $500 to fix them (there was one big one in the front quarter panel and a series of 5 or 6 small dime sized dents on the rear door). So I took that out of the price. I just figured I could live with everything else.

It also had bad pixels but that is common and is cheap to fix, there were cracks in the wood but I was going to swap to the silver trim anyway, and the ambient temp sensor was broken. I could live with all that too. But it came to light that there is too much ambiguity with the maintenance history, the age of some major parts in general like the chain guides and clutch, and he did not want to fix a couple things like thrust arm bushings and some cooling system components.

There’s always another car. I hope…

The perceived value of the car, meaning how much joy you get out of it, is probably what matters in the end, and the buyer ultimately decides if it was a good or bad purchase. I was planning to buy an E39 M5, but driving it in Los Angeles traffic, which mostly is bumper to bumper, stop and go, traffic would likely wear out the clutch much faster.

I would still love to have an M5, but the 2003 540i M-Technic made more sense to me, especially getting the Automatic. I fount one for $7300, and could not be happier. I still have to put in $2K in initial repairs, i.e PS hoses, front brakes, fan clutch, etc, but other than that the car is absolutely mint with an immaculate service history. This is my 27th car, and my fourth BMW. Despite frequent trips to the gas station, this car brings a smile to my face every time I drive it, That is worth a lot to me.

I found many more nice examples of an auto than a manual. But I read some stores of auto issues, and my current car was plagued with that which is why I swapped it to a manual transmission. Are the autos in 540i’s any good? How much lag is there in the shifting? I just assumed the shifting wouldn’t be very good since autos haven’t really gotten faster until more recently.

Lol, You'll only destroy your credit if you don't maintain your payments, you wait for your timing chain to break??? You're supposed to maintain your car properly, that way the timing chain, and guides don't break..... Goes for everything else too.

OP, just get a personal loan either from your bank, or a credit union. if you were in the service, is there a Navy Federal near you? They are awesome, and you don't even have to tell them what it is for.

I could have gone with the personal loan, my wife didn’t seem to mind. But there was just something about that high interest rate I couldn’t stand. Credit union was an option but as previously stated did not end up being that great.

Nice, but no I am not a serviceman.

[FlyOverCountry]

My .02

- Never take out a loan on something that depreciates.
- Save up cash and buy it.

You will find another msport 6speed probably with less miles and less money.

- One way tickets are cheap. so expand your search.

[blackknight530i]

So, M5's tend to cost more upfront, obviously, if you want to get a really nice well-cared for one. Thing is, they usually are better kept than your run of the mill e39. Of course you can find the random $6-8k salvage title M5 that Danny is always on the lookout for, but most in decent shape with clean titles go for about $10-15k up to the really nice low mileage ones at $18-22k. People say to steer clear of the 2000 models, but that's due to piston rings and VANOS noise (not a problem, just noisy due to a different design that was revised later). Yes, the engine parts are typically more expensive than your 540i or 530i, but the suspension and such is pretty much the same as a 540i, so parts would be pretty much the same for all of that. The cooling system is much more robust than the 540i due to the use of metal parts instead of plastic and timing guides typically last longer than 540i guides due to there being a double-row timing chain that doesn't stress the main u-guide as much. Of course, there are the M5 specific issues, but those aren't too bad and can be handled with some preventative maintenance. All the other M5 repairs are pretty much the same as you'd have with any other e39.

Bottom line, if you can swing it, the M5 will be the much better choice overall. Its value will actually increase, rather than decrease like the 540i/530i, though it might not be for several years that it really starts to go up.

[dk500]

So, M5's tend to cost more upfront, obviously, if you want to get a really nice well-cared for one. Thing is, they usually are better kept than your run of the mill e39. Of course you can find the random $6-8k salvage title M5 that Danny is always on the lookout for, but most in decent shape with clean titles go for about $10-15k up to the really nice low mileage ones at $18-22k. People say to steer clear of the 2000 models, but that's due to piston rings and VANOS noise (not a problem, just noisy due to a different design that was revised later). Yes, the engine parts are typically more expensive than your 540i or 530i, but the suspension and such is pretty much the same as a 540i, so parts would be pretty much the same for all of that. The cooling system is much more robust than the 540i due to the use of metal parts instead of plastic and timing guides typically last longer than 540i guides due to there being a double-row timing chain that doesn't stress the main u-guide as much. Of course, there are the M5 specific issues, but those aren't too bad and can be handled with some preventative maintenance. All the other M5 repairs are pretty much the same as you'd have with any other e39.

Bottom line, if you can swing it, the M5 will be the much better choice overall. Its value will actually increase, rather than decrease like the 540i/530i, though it might not be for several years that it really starts to go up.

Well said

[Red Ryder]

So, M5's tend to cost more upfront, obviously, if you want to get a really nice well-cared for one. Thing is, they usually are better kept than your run of the mill e39. Of course you can find the random $6-8k salvage title M5 that Danny is always on the lookout for, but most in decent shape with clean titles go for about $10-15k up to the really nice low mileage ones at $18-22k. People say to steer clear of the 2000 models, but that's due to piston rings and VANOS noise (not a problem, just noisy due to a different design that was revised later). Yes, the engine parts are typically more expensive than your 540i or 530i, but the suspension and such is pretty much the same as a 540i, so parts would be pretty much the same for all of that. The cooling system is much more robust than the 540i due to the use of metal parts instead of plastic and timing guides typically last longer than 540i guides due to there being a double-row timing chain that doesn't stress the main u-guide as much. Of course, there are the M5 specific issues, but those aren't too bad and can be handled with some preventative maintenance. All the other M5 repairs are pretty much the same as you'd have with any other e39.

Bottom line, if you can swing it, the M5 will be the much better choice overall. Its value will actually increase, rather than decrease like the 540i/530i, though it might not be for several years that it really starts to go up.

Just wanted to say thank you for this post, very informative. Especially the bit about the cooling system and timing chain guides. I agree M5's are generally better kept. I still haven't ruled it out, just still seems like a much more serious car. Plus at the same price point an M5 usually has around 20k more miles. I struggle with the whole concept of "low mileage" e39's because while for how old a 2003 540 or M5 is, sure 115k miles isn't high as that car was driven 8200 miles/year which is low (just an example). But objectively, 100k miles is a lot on any car, in my opinion anyway. Then again, I will not be driving the car year round so maybe I just need to get over that.

For an e39 I'm pretty set on a manual. But out of curiosity, how is the auto trans on say, a 2003 540 M-sport? Being such an old car I just can't picture it being much of a pleasure since autos have only just gotten good in recent years.

[XAlt]

Just wanted to say thank you for this post, very informative. Especially the bit about the cooling system and timing chain guides. I agree M5's are generally better kept. I still haven't ruled it out, just still seems like a much more serious car. Plus at the same price point an M5 usually has around 20k more miles. I struggle with the whole concept of "low mileage" e39's because while for how old a 2003 540 or M5 is, sure 115k miles isn't high as that car was driven 8200 miles/year which is low (just an example). But objectively, 100k miles is a lot on any car, in my opinion anyway. Then again, I will not be driving the car year round so maybe I just need to get over that.

For an e39 I'm pretty set on a manual. But out of curiosity, how is the auto trans on say, a 2003 540 M-sport? Being such an old car I just can't picture it being much of a pleasure since autos have only just gotten good in recent years.

The M5 is a better car, press a button and it turns back into a 540. It's more reliable, and will keep its value because ///M. If you'd like a more luxobarge cruiser oriented ride, get some Bilstein Tourings and call it a day.

Almost all of us here buy 540s because they're cheap, plentiful and offer 80% of the fun. Plus, they come in automatic/swagon editions, but you won't be needing either of those. They will never beat an M5 in smiles per gallon, unless you bring a supercharger into the mix, and even then the M5 can have one too.

The 5HP24 auto is certainly competent, especially with software, but has a reputation for spontaneous random failure. Fluid/Filter changes help avoid that, but as Asim said below, there's no guarantee it'll go your way.

BMW ZF automatics have been fun cars to drive, at least in my eyes, even an old 3 speed E24 is a fun car. The 6 speed Getrag 420g (identical on both cars) is a wonderful box though, it can handle tons of abuse and while a bit sluggish, will reveal it's character to you after a little while.

The 540's M62 starts falling apart towards the 80-110k mark, and suspension on any E39 begins around that too. The M5 will simply have less engine issues and usually be better kept, don't settle when you don't have to.

[auaq]

Yeah, but even then a fluid/filter change isn't the only way to fix any issue with an auto transmission. It's the internal issues that I would be more concerned about which obviously means to tear it down and rebuild it which is definitely going to cost a lot. And say after you rebuild the tranny, there's no real guarantee it is going to last for a long time. Ask me how I know. I rebuilt my 530i ZF 5HP19 transmission myself and it ran and shifted fine for about a year. It had everything new inside, thoroughly cleaned inside and outside, I even got the OE fluid from the dealer which had cost me a lot, a new torque converter too. After a year of driving my CEL came on for torque converter lock up clutch-solenoid code. I kept on driving for another two years or so. I then started to experience some harsh downshifts later on. For me, it wasn't really worth to try and drop the transmission again and fix the problems. In the end, the car actually got sold.

[dannyzabolotny]

Almost all of us here buy 540s because they're cheap, plentiful and offer 80% of the fun. Plus, they come in automatic/swagon editions, but you won't be needing either of those. They will never beat an M5 in smiles per gallon, unless you bring a supercharger into the mix, and even then the M5 can have one too.

This this this. Nobody willingly buys a 540i at this point if they can afford an M5, unless they have some really weird priorities.

[Red Ryder]

Well a few of you have me rethinking the M5. 01-03 anyway, sounds like it might be better to stay away from the 2000. And it seems like there is a premium for the 03, so I probably see myself ending up with an 01-02 model if anything.

The M5 is a better car, press a button and it turns back into a 540. It's more reliable, and will keep its value because ///M. If you'd like a more luxobarge cruiser oriented ride, get some Bilstein Tourings and call it a day.

Almost all of us here buy 540s because they're cheap, plentiful and offer 80% of the fun. Plus, they come in automatic/swagon editions, but you won't be needing either of those. They will never beat an M5 in smiles per gallon, unless you bring a supercharger into the mix, and even then the M5 can have one too.

The 5HP24 auto is certainly competent, especially with software, but has a reputation for spontaneous random failure. Fluid/Filter changes help avoid that, but as Asim said below, there's no guarantee it'll go your way.

BMW ZF automatics have been fun cars to drive, at least in my eyes, even an old 3 speed E24 is a fun car. The 6 speed Getrag 420g (identical on both cars) is a wonderful box though, it can handle tons of abuse and while a bit sluggish, will reveal it's character to you after a little while.

The 540's M62 starts falling apart towards the 80-110k mark, and suspension on any E39 begins around that too. The M5 will simply have less engine issues and usually be better kept, don't settle when you don't have to.

Other than the double row timing chain that is easier on the main U-guide and the cooling system being more durable due to metal components, in what other ways is the M5 more reliable/built better? I thought the VANOS on M5's was more complex/expensive to fix? I am trying to educate myself on all this but there is a ton of info out there, which is a good thing but can be difficult to sort through at times. As far as I know, these are the well known issues with 540's, do all these apply to the M5?

- valve colver gaskets
- thrust arm bushings
- VANOS solenoid seals
- coolant system
- timing chain guides

What are the issues the M5 is known for? I've also heard VANOS, but what else.

My current car was known for auto transmission failure which is why I swapped it to manual, I definitely do not ever want to deal with a bad auto again. So if it has a reputation for failure then definitely forget it. And I don't want to have to mess with software to get it to respond more quickly to driver input. Just out of curiosity, I wonder if anyone has installed paddles on an e39, I saw someone do it with a G8 GT. I think they used some from the Camaro.

What mileage intervals are the major maintenance? I don't want to buy an e39 that immediately needs complex or expensive work done, but obviously expect little things like dead cluster/MID pixels. I guess my approach for buying an e39, after I have done my research, is to find the lowest mileage car for the right price with good maintenance history I feel comfortable with. Either way, I just really don't want a car with more than maybe 80k miles. Between 60k and 70k would be ideal, but I also don't want to pay more than maybe $25k for one. Or maybe by the time I finally find one I'll have a crap ton saved up, who knows.

Yeah, but even then a fluid/filter change isn't the only way to fix any issue with an auto transmission. It's the internal issues that I would be more concerned about which obviously means to tear it down and rebuild it which is definitely going to cost a lot. And say after you rebuild the tranny, there's no real guarantee it is going to last for a long time. Ask me how I know. I rebuilt my 530i ZF 5HP19 transmission myself and it ran and shifted fine for about a year. It had everything new inside, thoroughly cleaned inside and outside, I even got the OE fluid from the dealer which had cost me a lot, a new torque converter too. After a year of driving my CEL came on for torque converter lock up clutch-solenoid code. I kept on driving for another two years or so. I then started to experience some harsh downshifts later on. For me, it wasn't really worth to try and drop the transmission again and fix the problems. In the end, the car actually got sold.

I'm sorry about your luck, must have been awful. Thanks for the heads up though. I kind of knew the auto couldn't be very quick to respond to inputs just being old tech, but wasn't sure about its reliability.

This this this. Nobody willingly buys a 540i at this point if they can afford an M5, unless they have some really weird priorities.

Honestly the '03 540 M-sport would likely be good enough for me, it meets all my performance/luxury/design criteria and is a big step up from my current car. I don't auto-x or dragrace either so I don't need anything super competitive. What has me considering the M5 more seriously now is if it's more reliable and better built, and the fact that it will one day appreciate doesn't hurt. I also like that they are easier to find, and that they are typically better kept cars as blackknight said.

[XAlt]

VANOS is not something that needs fixing on any 540i.

The M-Sport has the same suspension setup, and other than the LSD, is just missing an S62. The reason the M540i (I'm just going to call it that, because it's the same formula as its E34 cousin) even exists is because that every M5 came bloated with options from the factory and is easily a 100k car new.

[blackknight530i]

VANOS is not something that needs fixing on any 540i.

The M-Sport has the same suspension setup, and other than the LSD, is just missing an S62. The reason the M540i (I'm just going to call it that, because it's the same formula as its E34 cousin) even exists is because that every M5 came bloated with options from the factory and is easily a 100k car new.

Suspension isn't exactly the same. Try putting M5 springs on any 540i and watch the front end raise up to 4x4 levels. It's similar in feel, but not identical.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

[XAlt]

Suspension isn't exactly the same. Try putting M5 springs on any 540i and watch the front end raise up to 4x4 levels. It's similar in feel, but not identical.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Nearly the same feel, but yea M5 springs on a 540 = lol

- - - Updated - - -

Well a few of you have me rethinking the M5. 01-03 anyway, sounds like it might be better to stay away from the 2000. And it seems like there is a premium for the 03, so I probably see myself ending up with an 01-02 model if anything.

Other than the double row timing chain that is easier on the main U-guide and the cooling system being more durable due to metal components, in what other ways is the M5 more reliable/built better? I thought the VANOS on M5's was more complex/expensive to fix? I am trying to educate myself on all this but there is a ton of info out there, which is a good thing but can be difficult to sort through at times. As far as I know, these are the well known issues with 540's, do all these apply to the M5?

- valve colver gaskets
- thrust arm bushings
- VANOS solenoid seals
- coolant system
- timing chain guides

What are the issues the M5 is known for? I've also heard VANOS, but what else.

What mileage intervals are the major maintenance? I don't want to buy an e39 that immediately needs complex or expensive work done, but obviously expect little things like dead cluster/MID pixels. I guess my approach for buying an e39, after I have done my research, is to find the lowest mileage car for the right price with good maintenance history I feel comfortable with. Either way, I just really don't want a car with more than maybe 80k miles. Between 60k and 70k would be ideal, but I also don't want to pay more than maybe $25k for one. Or maybe by the time I finally find one I'll have a crap ton saved up, who knows.

80K mile 540s are probably worst kind you can get, prepped and ready to piss coolant, leak oil, and need suspension parts. Ask the PO what he's done.


The M5's guides will eventually suffer the same fate (probably 10 years from now) but a combination of dual row chains\lower temps\material will keep them good for a while longer. There's a premium for facelift M5s as a whole, but honestly I'd take a well maintained 2000 any day of the week, oil consumption and some ticking isn't the end of the world. VANOS units can get rattly, but it seems that a solenoid replacement\rebuild will take care of that and won't cost as much a guide job. It also doesn't have a valley pan gasket, nor an intake manifold, and overall is just a less leaky engine. Technically rated for 5w30 in later revisions, and it'll probably be fine, but just use 5w50\10w60\15w50 and never have a second thought.

Consider the rest of the car identical, and here are some universal E39 issues.

*Vapor Barriers ASAP
*Tape up your jack point covers (if missing) for wind noise
*Brakes
*Sway Bar End links
*Thrust Arms
*Window Regulators
*MID Pixels
*Weatherstripping in various areas, some more important than others
*Don't play with the sunroof
*Twisted seats.
*Foggy headlights

- - - Updated - - -
RUST

Since you're from Ohio, time for some E39 rust education.

http://www.bavarian-board.co.uk/uploads/kbannon/E39_rust_1.jpg
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39-m5-e52-z8-discussion/515546-my-e39-m5-rust-tidy-up-refresh.html
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39...oint-rust.html

Attachment 591067

info dump complete

[Red Ryder]

^Thank you for the info! I have been watching DIY videos on the coolant system rebuild, timing chain guides, valve cover gaskets, and general stuff like brake jobs, end links, window regulators, etc. I think I could/would do all that except maybe the chain guides...seems doable but also intimidating. I need to look up more about the thrust arm bushings.

I also spent some time on ECS's website just trying to get a general idea of how much parts cost, pretty much seems like things are 2-3 times as much as what I buy for my Accord. The pads I buy for my BBK are the same price, so that's nothing new. I want to compare a handful of parts between the 540 and M5 just to see the difference. Their site says coolant rebuilds are good to do every 60k miles, and chain guide failure symptims show up between 80-100k miles. I wouldn't take that as bible, and I'm sure that depends on driving conditions too.

From what I've read here and elsewhere people don't seem to care as much about mileage on these cars as long as it has been kept up well. I agree I would rather have a higher mileage car that's been taken care of than one with far less miles that hasn't. But I already have a high mileage car and I want my next one to look/feel/behave like it is much newer, plus I will be driving my kids around in it and I want to make sure it is dependable and safe. So I have it in my head that 50-70k miles sounds good (maybe 80k), but I also don't want to buy a car that will soon need major maintenance. So I guess my question is, is it truly better to buy these cars with higher mileage where most of the big things have been done (if the car was kept well)? Like clutch, chain guides, etc? To simplify, is there a "good mileage" to buy a well kept 540/M5 at?

80K mile 540s are probably worst kind you can get, prepped and ready to piss coolant, leak oil, and need suspension parts. Ask the PO what he's done.

So maybe better to buy with higher miles unless some things have been proactively. I see most for sale with around 100k miles. I know that's low for a car this old, but objectively speaking that is a lot of miles and I struggle with that.

The M5's guides will eventually suffer the same fate (probably 10 years from now) but a combination of dual row chains\lower temps\material will keep them good for a while longer. There's a premium for facelift M5s as a whole, but honestly I'd take a well maintained 2000 any day of the week, oil consumption and some ticking isn't the end of the world. VANOS units can get rattly, but it seems that a solenoid replacement\rebuild will take care of that and won't cost as much a guide job. It also doesn't have a valley pan gasket, nor an intake manifold, and overall is just a less leaky engine. Technically rated for 5w30 in later revisions, and it'll probably be fine, but just use 5w50\10w60\15w50 and never have a second thought.

I think I saw on e39 source it was around $750 to have the VANOS repaired, not sure if that was dealer or indie shop though, and that video is old. People say the VANOS rattle is not threatening or problematic, it would just bug me to hear it.

If I got a 2000 I would have to update the headlights and tail lights, I'm a lighthing snob ha. So the motor in the 2000 M5 is different than the 01-03? I am going to have to read more about this.

Forgive my ignorance, you mention three different oil types...are you saying you change them up for the different seasons?

Consider the rest of the car identical, and here are some universal E39 issues.

*Vapor Barriers ASAP
*Tape up your jack point covers (if missing) for wind noise
*Brakes
*Sway Bar End links
*Thrust Arms
*Window Regulators
*MID Pixels
*Weatherstripping in various areas, some more important than others
*Don't play with the sunroof
*Twisted seats.
*Foggy headlights

- - - Updated - - -
RUST

Since you're from Ohio, time for some E39 rust education.

http://www.bavarian-board.co.uk/uploads/kbannon/E39_rust_1.jpg
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39-m5-e52-z8-discussion/515546-my-e39-m5-rust-tidy-up-refresh.html
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39...oint-rust.html



info dump complete

Ugh, definitely don't want to mess with rust. Just not at all. So that means buying a car here that was never driven in winter, or finding a southern car somewhere. If I find a car I want, in addition to looking it over myself, I will be getting a pre-purchase inspection done at a dealer or BMW shop....hopefully rust is something they would look for.

What are the issues with the brakes? And what do you mean with the sunroof?

Thanks again.

[blackknight530i]

Here's the way I see buying a car with higher than 100k miles. I expect that I will be doing the full suspension overhaul, intake vacuum hose replacement, cooling system overhaul, and probably struts/steering parts. Anything that has been documented as completed within about 20-30k miles, I can put off. I don't buy a car with 100k miles expecting it to feel like new, so I'd much rather buy one with like 150k miles and just go ahead and do all the stuff I just mentioned. At least if you factor that in before buying, you'll know you'll get a new feeling car for cheaper. If you buy a 95k mile car for $2-3k more and in 6 months to a year you have to do that stuff anyways, then are you really ahead? The only cars I would buy that I would expect to still feel like new and stay that way for 20-30k miles are cars with 50-60k miles. The other thing is getting a newer car with higher miles means you get the better looks/tech/fixed issues of the later models, while paying less than a low mileage 2000 or something. Also, if someone piecemealed the suspension overhaul, you could be chasing your tail trying to find which parts are bad and which aren't. Better to just overhaul everything at once and know it's all good.

[waters17]

Here's my expense list for a year of ownership. All the work that was done needed to be done. I feel like I'm pretty close to the 'worst case scenario' end of the spectrum.

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...-the-last-year

Also, you can subtract $450 from the vanos line item. I messed mine up when I was trying to press my vanos unit. This required me to get a rebuilt unit sent overnight. The cost was so much because I messed up the core.

The chain guide job isn't that bad. You spend most of your time cleaning and tagging parts. I'd much rather do the guides than do the suspension work. Yes, parts are expensive, but you adapt.

[XAlt]

TCGs are a 150-250k thing usually.

Just get an M5 and worry less.