The styling of the E34 chassis has teased my eyes for as long as I can remember. Given my enthusiasm for early BMW Motorsport creations, the E34 M5 in particular has been at the top of my sedan wish list, with the second place preference (an E30 design edition touring) being a distant second.
I've now been fortunate enough to own two E34 M5s, both of which were Japanese market examples. Japanese market cars are excellent buys, as they tend to be lower mileage, well maintained, very well optioned, and most importantly just about as free of rust as you'll find outside of desert climates.
My first E34 M5 was a well bought car in need of moderate restoration work, and I tackled as much of the work as I could myself. It had been imported from Japan in 2008, was literally rust free everywhere and had 108,000 kilometres on it.
I barely drove this car while I had it, as my intention from the start was to find it a new owner who would really enjoy it - I would never want to own a car with jet black paint (impossible to keep clean) and an extended leather interior (not a fan), but I knew it was a great candidate for a restoration. I never warmed up to the car, but it did confirm my appreciation for the E34 M5.
Here's what the car looked like after I had completed my restoration work:
Even after having restored it to the point where it really stood out, it took work to sell the car given the poor economy at the time (2010), though I finally did so just as the leaves started to turn that fall.
A few years and a few cars later, and I arrived at the point where I had arrived earlier with the E30 M3: if I wanted a good E34 M5 to enjoy for many years, now was the time to find one before they went up in value. I remembered seeing a very nice example with just about the exact options I would have selected were I the original owner, well maintained and with low mileage, posted some time earlier on a local forum in a feeler ad. It turned out the thread I had remembered was years old by that point, but after contacting the member I was elated to find he not only still owned the car, but that he was willing to sell it to me.
After a 45 minute long call where he described every known fault of the car to me from memory (most of which I've long since forgotten), I was confident enough to buy it despite it being several provinces away in the Maritimes, although at one point I distinctly recall being a bit nervous after having sent a money order for the full amount of the car to a stranger.
Here are pictures the seller sent me of the car after he pulled it out of storage:
Here are some pictures taken by the dealership which originally imported it from Japan:
I've now owned the car since 2014, and this is without question one of the nicest cars I've ever driven. The builder of my car got everything right: the doors close with a thud, there are no rattles whatsoever, and everything is tight including the steering. The car handles daily duties without any complaints, yet transforms itself on the stab of the throttle or twist of the steering into a wonderfully capable performance car. For my money, there is no equal in a modern classic sports sedan, including the E39 M5s despite their increased power.
I'm looking forward to maintaining this thread over the years as I continue to enjoy this car and start tackling some projects.
Last edited by Shock(/\)ave; 10-19-2016 at 03:14 AM.
Firstly, so jealous and absolutely love the colour.
So you've owned it since 2014 and only now put up a post about it, so what maintenance, repairs and upgrades have you done on it since owning it?
Very nice. A rare find, particularly here on the rust coast.
It had so much maintenance done on it when I bought it that it's needed nothing but oil changes and gasoline (with fuel stabilizer every fill up) so far. A big part of the draw of the car for me was the incredible maintenance history it came with. I'm looking for a few small parts to improve it now, most of which are incredibly difficult to source (rear door sunshade blind pull tab covers, the engine bay electrical cover that had the Wintershall ViVA 1 sticker on it, and so on).
Last edited by Shock(/\)ave; 10-19-2016 at 01:46 PM.
Someone on M5board was reproducing the wintershal oil sticker, he may still have a few. And someone here is soon to be reproducing the motorsports seat belts.
Great looking car. The 3.8 is a great engine. (it certainly bridges the performance gap between the 3.6 and the e39's s62).
Mike
93 M5 3.8 Sterling Silver/Black (euro)
94 M5 Touring Madeiraschwarz/Black
80 745i (project)
83 735i / 5 speed (euro)
86 745i
That's a thing of beauty..Congrats!
(and you have the lighter version of my cloth seats )
Brian A Silverton, OR
'85 Euro 635CSi 5 speed conversion
'87 L7
'93 Euro M5 3.8
'93 740i
'94 850CSi #31
'95 540i Msport 6 speed
'96 M3/4/6 Euro 3.2l
'03 M3 Cab
'12 X5 3.5D Tuned
Unofficial 1995 BMW 540i MSport registrar (please see Facebook BMW 1995 BMW540i Msport registry group to join or report a sale)
Yyyyyyyyaaaaaaaaaaaaaasssssssssssss
Great car. Congrats man, cleanE34 M5's are to die for. Just boughta Jap import myself with 56k miles on it.
BMW:
The fun and the funding never stop.
I actually bought two of the stickers from him - it's the plastic cover that I'm missing. It's N.L.A. at the moment from BMW.
Fully agreed there! I'm never left wanting for more power or torque from this motor.
Then you have my favourite E34 interior.
I read what you posted in another thread, and I wanted to comment on it. I've got my girl to the point where she's not only encouraging me to keep buying, restoring, and selling cars, but she's now wanting to participate in the process.
I would definitely keep at it, as you'll return a lot of cars into service that might otherwise end up used up and parted, and you'll make money while doing it. I'd sell the Porsche while they're still worth stupid money if I were you to fully fund the effort and get a few cars at a time, but I'm not a Porsche guy at all, so that's an easy decision for me...
Thanks! I'll look for your thread about your car.
Last edited by Shock(/\)ave; 10-20-2016 at 10:54 AM.
I appreciate the support, my man (from you). And I have known for years I found the right girl, but this was just the latest evidence (wha wha wha).
I plan on pursuing the Art of the Flip as a side hobby, but will definitely be doing some serious thinking (and drinking) about which car I should let go. No one can deny the 911 should go from a rational standpoint (I'd double my money on it) at this point, and I think E34s are on the cusp of a gradual rise in value. But I AM a Porsche guy, so it's tough! Either way, my ideal four-season daily in Colorado is undoubtedly an E34 M5 Touring. I really need to drive a B38 to seal the deal, but the B40 is just not cutting it.
I know you've been fixing up and maintaining some juicy M cars for years, but it's good to see you posting more details here! The board needs more new, detailed restoration/upkeep threads. It's been getting a bit too E36-esque in here... (the crowd, nothing against the car).
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Really? I'm not going to go digging, but I know you've posted multiple times calling E34 M5s slow and your M30 just as fast.
When you buy a car like one of ours, you're committing a good sum of money - at least in proportion to our yearly income - into a car that is thankfully now an appreciating asset which demands regular maintenance, essentially yearly tax payments through various government fees, and insurance. Given interest rates today, and the potential for extreme volatility in currencies and the stock market, the financial opportunity cost isn't nearly as high as it would have been say before 2008, but it's still a real cost.
I worked hard to assemble the cars I have now, and were I to buy them all today I'd need to more than double my yearly income to afford them. I bought each of them with an extremely long term viewpoint, because owning my dream cars brings me a great deal of joy and satisfaction. That's the other kind of opportunity cost: the opportunity to live well. We're only here for a short time, and despite their problems you and I are lucky enough to live in two of the very best countries there are on Earth. Cars for me are a symbol of freedom, especially fast gasoline powered cars, and being able to drive something exceptional further improves my enjoyment of life. Would I like to go on trips with the money or buy other things I can't currently afford? Sure, but I'll be able to do so soon regardless as my cars are all paid for. Every time I go anywhere in my cars it's an event for me as an enthusiast, and that's worth the money, the time, the occasional frustration... I'm driving the same cars I would be driving were I many times wealthier.
If you're a Porsche guy, keep your Porsche if it brings you the most happiness. If you someday find another Porsche you'd rather have, then buy that one and sell the one you have now. Don't sell the car if it's your keeper and you know you would want to replace it someday - you've already bought yours before they doubled in value, and as such you've been able to enjoy the car for far less initial investment.
Make it a priority to do so. Reach out to other members here with them, go test drive one that's for sale close to you, just do whatever you need to do to make it happen so you're sure it's what you want to go after. I'm extremely happy with mine, but some guys actually get bored with a hand built 340 horsepower sedan with a street tuned race motor.
The main reason it's taken me so long is that I've been working on starting and building our business for since 2012, and that sucked up all of the money and time I could dedicate to the hobby. We also bought a house 5 years ago with a small single car garage which is currently full of furniture. Now that my girl is fully into the hobby (it was a sudden pleasant surprise this year - she even has her own build thread on r3vlimited.com), the plan to build a garage next year is looking really good.
Last edited by Shock(/\)ave; 10-26-2016 at 02:05 AM.
If I owned that e34, I could pass overnight and be a happy man.
To me, that is the most gorgeous vehicle I've laid eyes on in as long as I can remember. I don't think I'd ever sell that if it were mine.
I sooooo miss my e36 M, which had the same colors save dove leather interior, but the sports car ride and climbing in/out got to be too much for my health issues.
Congrats on a beautiful vehicle!! I like that telescoping column too.
Good points, Paulio. Especially your last paragraph, I think the logic you're pointing out is a good counter-argument to the logic non-car people are reiterating to me, that basically since I could double my money on the "investment", it'd be a waste not to sell. It's a platform that ticks more boxes for me than any other (especially at the price point), so the money isn't really worth it.
To really buy into this concept, however, I need to make sure I can daily the 911 without fear, which takes a few important technical, emotional, and insurance changes, haha. And who knows, maybe they will keep appreciating as well, but it's been several long months since the last uptick.
Will do. For reference, I liked the fresh Roland-rebuilt S38 in my M5 more than any other motor I've ever driven. I haven't driven any late-model really fast stuff, or an F car, etc, but the S38 makes the 3.2 in the Porsche feel pedestrian.
I see, I wondered where you'd been That's awesome about her build thread, what's she got?
I hope it pleases you to know I truly appreciate this car every day that I own it - even if I don't drive it.
Exactly.
You're a car guy who's lucky enough to own and drive what he dreamed of owning when he was a boy. The majority of us never get that lucky, and most who do are much older by the time they achieve that dream. You sell that car, you'll want it replaced with another keeper you enjoy just as much or more - and most of the cars on that list would probably cost more than you'd make on the sale, so you're hardly ending up ahead financially.
Now here's where I disagree to an extent: any car you want to hang onto further into the future than you can see should be spared winter driving if at all possible. My E34 is actually my daily right now as per my signature, but I will not drive it through our winters here. Even if I were to tear the car down as much as possible and perform the absolute best, most ridiculous rust prevention preparations possible the door bottoms would rust, as would many of the motor and suspension parts, so I'm going to drive something else instead while there's salt on the roads.
I hate rust, though. I really hate it. I've fought it many times in the past, and it's a tough and relentless opponent.
Maybe you could use whatever you buy to restore and sell on through the winter to keep the long term car in top condition.
Come to Ontario, drive mine, and you'll see what a well maintained 120,000 km 3.8 L is like.
I picked up a 1988 320i touring and offered it to her after she admitted she really liked the two 1991 318iSes I had. Here's her build thread.
Last edited by Shock(/\)ave; 10-26-2016 at 02:08 AM.
I know, I know The reality is I would never be ahead financially if I sold the P car. My replacement list is all more $$$ and less practical.
Never fear: when I say daily, I really mean three season daily. As tempting as it is to hoon the 911 in winter (it's a killer winter car with amazing heat and awesome traction), mine is far too clean to subject it to that wear, tear, and rust. I would have to maintain a winter beater for sure (this season it will be the 540iT, which is already crusty).
I've heard that the mag chloride they use in Colorado is worse than salt for cars, but in a few years of winter driving old BMWs I have yet to see the rust really spread, so I don't know what's up. This may be different with the 540iT being the rustiest one yet
If Angie I make good on a Canada trip like we talk about, you got it. And of course, let me know if you come down to Colorado, because I'd share the 911 key with you in a heart beat
The real question: How feasible is it to B38 swap my touring in a one car, albeit long garage?
Is that still for sale? You two have poured a lot of time and effort into it, what a great thread!
How does the slick-top E30 hatch drive? I was surprised at an autocross this summer that I was real close (in the E34 touring) to the times put down by an E30 touring with a much better set-up, but that could have been driver. After learning to autocross in the 911, BMWs are pretty easy to throw around.
Last edited by BleedsBlue; 10-26-2016 at 02:00 PM.
not much more difficult than swapping a B36, which has been done numerous times. Easier to start with a 6 cylinder car though. Better yet, just find a real one. You can bring a 92 over next year.
And in a touring especially, you want the extra torque of the 3.8. (driving mine today, one benefit of california, year round driving)
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Great thread. I don't get on R3V much, but very nice.
Mike
93 M5 3.8 Sterling Silver/Black (euro)
94 M5 Touring Madeiraschwarz/Black
80 745i (project)
83 735i / 5 speed (euro)
86 745i
That sounds familiar. Once you start flipping cars, your collection of keepers just might start to grow. I keep hearing, "Don't worry, I finally have all of my dream cars. I'm not going to just keep collecting more. Well, unless my financial position improves exponentially, in which case I might consider getting a McClaren F1, [insert list of insanely expensive cars here], oh, and a plane after I take lessons... but that would be about it! Well, we would also need enough land for an airstrip."
I've wondered the same thing myself, but our one car garage is unusable at the moment, and as supportive as he is, I don't think Paul would be thrilled about me stealing his engine (assuming I could figure out how ).
Thanks! I've had lots of interest in it, but it's still for sale.
It would make an awesome road trip if you bought a car up here and drove it back to Colorado. Now is the time to do it since our dollar is worth so little.
Thanks, guys! It's been a lot of fun to work on. I'm sad about selling it too, but it will be worth it for what we have planned next.
I love how connected to the road you feel in the E30 touring. It feels like you're driving a much smaller, lighter car (actually, it is a much smaller car if you see it side by side with any newer car) with nothing interfering with the experience of driving. Driving the M5 is so different it's hard to describe. It feels like it's not happy until you're cruising comfortably and smoothly along at highway speeds. It's way too easy to find your self driving too fast without intending to, or even feeling like you are. Both of them are a blast to drive.
Okay, now that I've completely derailed this thread, I thought I'd contribute a picture of the M5 taken at Tedfest, a local classic BMW car show, this summer. It was a rare moment where there weren't crowds of people gathered around the car drooling at the sight of it.
I told Paul that I would switch gears and help him work on his cars after he helped me work on the touring all summer. So, first, we had to identify at least one flaw on one of his cars. One thing that had been bugging him on the M5 was the door handle gaskets that had cracked. Since they're NLA from the dealer, he sourced them from a Bimmerforums member in Japan.
I'm sure between the two of us we'll figure out how to install them! Next on the to-do list for the M5 (if it were up to me) would be fixing the glove box. Right now, the work-around that's in place is Paul yelling "Noooooo!!!" when I forget it's broken and go to open it.
EDIT: Paul just read this and corrected me about the glove box: "It's not broken, the mounting hardware has just come apart. You just can't open it right now." So... as I said, it's broken.
Last edited by Roadrunn3r; 10-29-2016 at 02:00 PM.
This is what I followed for the gaskets. Very straight forward and satisfying.
http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/304835/
Beauty car BTW!
My replacement list is just that: I'd replace any of my cars with another one of the same, though I obviously couldn't really replace my E36. I can't think of any better cars in their respective roles I'd rather have. I can think of a lot of cars I'd love to drive for a while, but not if I have to sell one of mine to make it happen. Is there a better modern classic collectible track oriented car than the E30 M3? A better modern classic performance sedan than an E34 M5? You could argue there are equals at much higher price levels, but BMW was run by engineers back then, and BMW Motorsport really knew their craft.
Weirdly my keepers are all BMWs when I'm not a BMW fan. I couldn't stand most of their products and marketing for the last decade, but I sure am a fan of some of their older cars.
Carry on then.
You're definitely welcome here, and I'd love to see Colorado someday.
I think the hard part would be sourcing a good S38B38 for a reasonable price. It'd likely be cheaper to import an entire shabby 3.8 L M5...
Fingers crossed we've finally found a serious buyer. He certainly seems committed, but we'll know for sure by Tuesday when we expect a deposit.
The touring doesn't handle like an M3, but it does handle like a 325iS, which is pretty surprising. I'd love to drive one with a period motor swap someday. A mint low mile design edition E30 touring with an S50B30 swap would be the only non M3 E30 I'd trade my E30 M3 for. When I find a mint sport cloth interior and glass moon roof for my E30 M3 I wouldn't trade it for any other outside of a proper E30 Evolution II M3. Love the paint scheme on those motors.
I'll bet it would take a long time to find a good M5 touring for anything less than silly money.
You were certainly wise to buy your M5 touring when you did.
She had a lot of fun writing it, and we enjoyed working on it together (except for the heater core job, which despite my modifications to save a huge amount of effort was still ridiculous).
All good things...
If you aren't shopping for M5s, I would definitely buy the best one you can afford. These cars are still much too cheap, and it's worth it to pay extra for a car someone else has sunk a lot of time and / or money into.
Good thought there. It makes a big difference in these cars.
McClaren F1, Ferrari F40, Toyota Supra, Acura NSX, Nissan Skyline R34, Mazda RX7 FD. I think that would be just about the finest modern classic car collection one could ask for under 10 cars (including what I already have now). I really love cars from this period because they combined the best of the old with the best of the new so well. If I had to add something domestic to my dream car garage, I'd choose Cobra Roadster & Daytona Coupe kit cars.
Time to start pitching in on the next car I buy to restore and sell on, and put your share of the proceeds into a motor swap fund! You'll need another car first, though.
I can't wait. As soon as the touring is officially sold we'll definitely share what's up next.
Yeah, I suppose a post about the car in the thread title wouldn't be a bad idea at some point.
Shogun was the source of the gaskets, and the quality is outstanding. Highly recommended. I bought enough gaskets from him that I have a full spare set for the E36 and E34 should they ever need them again.
I thought my work around was pretty good, but you have a point. I have all of the parts and nothing is broken, so it's just a case of the hinges or whatever the heck these pieces are having popped out of place. If I could remove your damned steering column shear bolts, this job should be doable while taking a nap!
Excellent link - much better than any other I'd found. Thanks for sharing it! I'll actually take care of this tomorrow and post pictures given how easy the process actually appears to be.
Last edited by Shock(/\)ave; 10-30-2016 at 04:11 AM.
There is definitely a tricky balance in there. You can't flip (or at least, enjoying flipping) boring cars, but OF COURSE through fixing one up, driving it etc, you'll develop an attachment. I've basically regretted selling every fun car I've ever sold
Quoted for posterity . I'll make it happen sometime when the BleedsBlue dollar is worth more.
First off, it's impossible to derail your own hubby's thread
I like the way you describe it, though I think the characteristic you're describing with the E34 is exacerbated by the S38's raunchiness (which is one of the main reasons I love it). I'm sure regardless of straight line speed, a slicktop E30 touring will be more fun in the twisties than my two ton, V8, panoramic sunroof panzer (I hate sunroofs).
I hear you man, on both the BMW M golden era, as well as the lack of interest on modern BMWs. Some new BMWs are crazy competent, but they're just clones of the other modern Germans at this point.
At the price point currently, I'd argue that a 911 SC or 3.2 beats the E30 M3 in your given areas, but I know you aren't a Porsche guy
Troof. With BK06091, the bottom end was original after Roland's top end rebuild at 220k miles, so I was planning on a hybrid build (boring, not stroking). The key part of the S38 I would never want to change is the power band and rush to redline. That's also what's entirely missing with the M60
I'm really happy to have my E30, believe me, especially for such a reasonable cost of entry. I would very likely never own an E30 M3 if I hadn't bought mine when I did (I would, however, own an E30 touring instead as I'm a huge fan of the chassis now). Even 6 years ago I knew it was then or never for me; since then their pricing has claimed way beyond my personal justification level, and even further beyond my means to afford one.
My experience with my E34 differs from hers: I find it very drivable around town running errands at a relaxed pace. The brakes are noticeably more capable and controllable than your typical car, and when you turn the wheel sharply the suspension shrugs it off, but the lumpy idle is the only strong indication it's capable of a lot more. Stab the throttle, though, and the car transforms as instantly as the expression on my face.
That's what I enjoy most about my E36 and E34: they're extremely capable at everything, but on my slightest whim they can transform into proper performance cars that will easily provide as much thrill as most cars which were designed only for that purpose.
The E30 is different, though, as it's never really content in town. It feels bored and underwhelmed, and retaliates by underwhelming you in those situations. As soon as you take it somewhere you can actually get it moving it becomes intensely engaged, and you become one with it. A very interesting experience. The last time I had mine out for a proper drive I went though an intersection that had been repaved in such a way that the road I crossed was quite elevated... the car jumped high enough to fully unload the suspension and sail through the air, then landed without losing any composure whatsoever. Calling a car like that capable is an understatement.
Last edited by Shock(/\)ave; 11-01-2016 at 02:13 PM.
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