Oh no! Not Another Turbo E34 Build.

[M60B40Bimmer]

Update: I'd go to the more recent posts, as these earlier posts aren't too relevant.


Greetings,

As the title suggests, this is another build thread for a e34 m30 Turbo. I'll try to keep it short and sweet with photos flowing.

What I have:

1989 Alpinweiss 2 - 218 E34 535i PROD: 1988-08-26 BMW1
- Open diff
- 5 speed Getrag 260/6
- Runs and drives
- Perfect paint 9/10
- Literally zero options from factory.
- 185k Miles
- Racing Dynamics springs, sways & Strut brace.
- Light wood grain trim
- Everything works

Here's the goodies
-Square set of style 5's, 17x8 I presume. PERFECT condition w/ Center cap tool. The PO had no idea.

IMG_0095[1] copy.jpg

1989 Alpinweiss 2 - 218 E34 535iA PROD: 1989-08-02 BMW2
- 3.91 LSD (I assume)
- No door, hood or fenders
- Pretty good paint 8/10
- Wired for phone and CD changer
- Heated and electric front seats
- Also shitty interior
- 190k Miles
- Motor is pulled -> Valves look good.

IMG_0015[7].jpg

So the short plan thus far is to work on BMW1 and it get to be a perfect daily, while building the BMW2 motor. Once BMW2 motor is ready, I can just drop it in.



Goals:
400 HP Daily-able

BMW2 Motor
On an engine stand
M30B35
190k

Work to be done not by me:
✓- Hot Tank block
✓- Deck and hone Block
✓- Install forged pistons, rods, bearings, rings and lower end. (I don't trust myself that much)
- Head work (maybe heavy duty rockers? Would like some insight on if it is really needed.)
- Powder coat intake (grind down forged production runners) and valve cover Alpinweiss-2 or Alpinweiss-3

Work to be done myself
✓- ARP studs
- MLS headgasket
- New Manifold studs
- General motor maintenece items (hosing, cooling systems, lines, etc)
- 260 reseal
- Diff Reseal/Half Rebuild
✓- Complete interior rebuild from E brake back

Things to buy to throw on:
- PNP Megasquirt
- Borg Warner 257SXE super core
- Top mount tubular turbo manifold from Rapid Spool (good&tight)
- Begi FPR
- Wastegate ( know little about waste gate brands )
- Clutch that can handle the HP/TQ. Was thinking an M5 staged clutch, but I'd really like an organic clutch.
- xxxxxxx Brand Boost controller


I appreciate any comments! Especially from Binjammin.

[Smoky540i]

Wow...that's my initial reaction. Looking forward to seeing this project come together!

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[E38740iMD]

I appreciate any comments! Especially from Binjammin.

Don't expect any comments from him. He has vanished

However. I would replace the oil pump on motor2. Mine may be giving problems however I do have 273,000 miles on mine. I doing basically the same thing you are. Last night I finally put together my oil supply solution. Took 4 hours and came up to be 90. Dollars off ebay. What intercooling setup will you use? What kind of gauges and have you decided on a turbo yet

[M60B40Bimmer]

Ill look into the oil pump situation.

Don't expect any comments from him. He has vanished

What intercooling setup will you use? What kind of gauges and have you decided on a turbo yet

I'm pretty set on either a Borg Warner S366 177283 or a HX55 3590044 Maybe a hx40 if the spool is going to be that much better.

As far as intercooler, my plan was to run a decent brand intercooler in a standard setup, I'm not very familiar with intercooler brands and how much getting a good one differs from an okay one.

Gauges would be Prosport gauges.

[Redfive]

Sounds like you've got most of it right. In terms of what should be done, I don't agree with the tuning option. If you want it to drive like factory, you need a better solution. My engine sucked with all the various work-arounds I tried at first.
You'll also need more than a M5 clutch, organic did nothing for my setup, had to go with a ceramic puck clutch.

I can save you a lot of that work and cost. Not sure if you're aware my 400rwhp fully built, stand-alone ECU driveline is for sale.

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...to-driveshaft)

Since you want to do your own turbo setup, I'd sell you the fully built long-block, with engine control system, fuel system, lightweight flywheel, cooling system, water injection, minus the TCD setup and exhaust and the transmission. Then you could add your turbo setup and have it tuned.

How does my setup run? Ask Matt Farrah -->

My engine has a number of Paul Burke parts which are no longer available (pistons and cam).

[nonturbodan]

I had very good results with a segmented kevlar setup at 400rwhp. I don't think it wore at all in the several years I ran it. Looked excellent every time I had it apart.

[Redfive]

I got a segmented kevlar from UUC and mounted it to a brand new 9lb JB racing flywheel. I drove like a baby for the first 1500 miles to break it in and it never worked. It would slip going up a hill. I couldn't even merge onto the highway without slippage. Took it apart and it looked like it only had one point of contact. Sent it back to UUC and then sent me a ceramic puck clutch to replace it. I also had to go and find a 12lb steel flywheel and get it resurfaced.
I was really disappointed by that whole experience. It's hard to drive a car like mine gently and it took forever to get through the break in period because the car never got driven. Then it took UUC 6 weeks to resolve. Then I ended up with a clutch that is not my ideal experience and I lost a full year of driving the car. I wanted a stock feel and didn't get it. In the end it would have been better for me to have just started with a twin-disc.

OP- Buying my setup will accomplish all that you're looking to do, faster and for less money. I'm only selling it because I want something different and selling my car is not an option, so this is the closest I can come to parting it out and starting a new project with an S62.

[BleedsBlue]

Cool! In for updates, if OP decides not to buy RedFive's sweet setup

Bin might be resurrected if someone in here mentions how ideal the M30 is for FI due to it's low compression. BINTRIGGERED.

[Redfive]

He talked about having a shop build his engine, so I figured why not start with something that's already built? If he does his own turbo setup on my engine, there'd still be a lot of work. He'll just get to the end result much faster and cheaper.

As for Bin, I'm reaching out to him. I used to see him 5-6 times a week, then he moved out of state, got of GF, engaged and is going to school. He's quite busy. I want him to come to my 40th b-day party next month.

[M60B40Bimmer]

Thanks for the offer red, I originally saw your post about parting your legendary car, and I did consider it. I did heavily consider your long block, but What really turned me off about it was the need for a standalone and my lack of knowledge about tuning. I am very inexperienced as far as standalones go and how they work with stock systems. Although I would love to learn.

I'll take a second look at your setup and consider whether or not it can work for me. I do love what you've done with it. Your e34 has been the idol e34 for me for quite awhile.

Even if I'm not interested in some of your parts, I may send you a message to tap into your vast knowledge.

As far as clutch material goes, I'm open to just about anything....... As long as it's drive able on the street. Kind of a "lady in the streets, freak on the track" style. That's how the saying goes right?

[nonturbodan]

I think my kevlar setup came from clutchmasters. Went in with a brand new, unmodified single mass flywheel. Very close to stock engagement characteristics. No tendency to shudder or grab.

One thing you dont want to do is buy too much clutch. Ceramic has poor engagement characteristics, multi plate clutches are very expensive. No reason to make trade offs if they arent necessary.

[Redfive]

I think my kevlar setup came from clutchmasters. Went in with a brand new, unmodified single mass flywheel. Very close to stock engagement characteristics. No tendency to shudder or grab.

One thing you dont want to do is buy too much clutch. Ceramic has poor engagement characteristics, multi plate clutches are very expensive. No reason to make trade offs if they arent necessary.

My clutch and flywheel was $1200. A twin disc was $1500 more. At that point the difference was a drop in the bucket.
The my clutch holds really well. Starting off requires extra modulation and throttle, but once moving it is fine.

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[Redfive]

Thanks for the offer red, I originally saw your post about parting your legendary car, and I did consider it. I did heavily consider your long block, but What really turned me off about it was the need for a standalone and my lack of knowledge about tuning. I am very inexperienced as far as standalones go and how they work with stock systems. Although I would love to learn.

I'll take a second look at your setup and consider whether or not it can work for me. I do love what you've done with it. Your e34 has been the idol e34 for me for quite awhile.

Even if I'm not interested in some of your parts, I may send you a message to tap into your vast knowledge.

As far as clutch material goes, I'm open to just about anything....... As long as it's drive able on the street. Kind of a "lady in the streets, freak on the track" style. That's how the saying goes right?

My long block doesn't require a stand alone. But for the power you are looking for and the possible DD usage, you can expect lots of issues if you try sticking with a piggyback or the stock system. It's just not easy to adjust. I tried it. Blew up two engines.
With my setup, the parameters just need to be adjusted for the turbo you choose, since its a pressure based system (not mass flow). The maps are there for the engine, just needing tweaking. You just need to find a pro to tweak it. (Unless you went with my turbo).
Whatever way you go, I recommend you get it professionally tuned. Save money for that. Because that's what makes or breaks a setup. I'm speaking from experience. I wasted $$$ and years trying to get my engine to run right.
Unlike modern ECUs, like the n54, the stock ECU doesn't adapt. It's a 30 year old computer. The stand alone is a major improvement. Even the megasquirt is a big step up. Mine just has a complete harness. Find out who near you can do the tuning and install the system they recommend. There's no plug and play solution for these engines at those power levels.

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[Smoky540i]

At the risk of sounding like an idiot (which I am concerning turbos)...why do I see a lot of M5x builds that make like 500-700 HP without going to a standalone. Is the M30 a lot different than an M5x when it comes to going FI? Sorry if this is a really dumb question...

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[E38740iMD]

Obd 2 computers co.pared to the obd1 the m30 uses. Most of those m5x S5x engines are running obd2 engine management. The technology is different

[Smoky540i]

Ok thanks. So you can run an obd2 computer on an M30?

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[E38740iMD]

Ok thanks. So you can run an obd2 computer on an M30?

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Cant. M30 is too old

M5x S5x are just a big jump ahead of the m30, knock sensors, variable timing, better ignition setup, 4 valves per cylinder, cam sensors. Etc and the obd2 ecus are reflashable while obd1 can only use. Chip upgrade.

You can add flex fueling, better ignition, cam sensor via half effect sensor on the dizzy plate, Map sensor etc. To the m30 but the stock ecu wouldnt know what to do with the input/outputs hence going standalone to get the most power out of the build

[Smoky540i]

Ok cool. Thanks for the clarification

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[Redfive]

Cant. M30 is too old

M5x S5x are just a big jump ahead of the m30, knock sensors, viable timing, better ignition setup, 4 valves per cylinder, cam sensors. Etc and the obd2 ecus are reflashable while obd1 can only use. Chip upgrade.

You can add flex fueling, better ignition, cam sensor via half effect sensor on the dizzy plate, Map sensor etc. To the m30 but the stock ecu would know what to do with the input/outputs hence going standalone to get the most power out of the build

Couldn't have said it better.

When it comes to building up a M30 turbo. You can do all kinds of stuff to the engine and turbo to make power, but it really comes down to the tuning. You wouldn't build a crazy gaming computer, just to run Windows 95 on it, would you?
Tuning is the make and break of these type of builds. Don't skimp on it and if you're not comfortable doing it yourself, hire someone. Trust me, I found out the hardway. It took me from 2005 to 2011, to get my setup to work right. In that time, I blew multiple headgaskets, broke 6 pistons, split 1 head, and destroyed one ECU. Cost me thousands more than if I had just done it right the first time. And it wasn't all my attempts at tuning either. I hired ICS to tune my car only to have the engine fail shortly afterwards.

[M60B40Bimmer]

Late late late late update. Things are moving slow. Decided not to buy RedFive's setup due to lack of funds just sitting around.

Currently just rebuilding an m30 and prepping for turbo, but not actually going full turbo until a later time. Just focusing on getting a bulletproof m30 in the car.

Just got the block and internals from the machine shop. 0.003 off the top of the block. All bearing clearances were within stock spec after 185k miles. Pressure tested, cleaned and threads chased. Piston clips were also within spec. Polished crankshaft, milled front timing cover(tougher than you think). Light hone.

Next is Oil pump rebuild, bearings and rings.

Gallery:
https://postimg.org/gallery/r9toq4as/

[E38740iMD]

things look nice!

[M60B40Bimmer]

Updates!

- De-rusted my iron block and painted it!
I used a gel, eco-friendly rust remover. Rather annoying to work with, but it is non toxic and does not create deadly fumes. Always a plus.

- De-rusted my bolts and painted my calipers with G2 caliper paint. Lovely stuff!

- Additionally, I installed new freeze plugs and installed my main bearings.

- Although I am behind schedule as my assembly lube has not arrived in the post yet, and the fact that I received defective main bearings. Thankfully I was sent a replacement!

- Opened up my oil pump and checked it out. Looks good! Although found teeth of my cam sprocket in my filter. I think ill need a new sprocket.

Next is to buy the ~$350 in oem bmw fasteners (conrod, main, etc) and rings to install my pistons.



I used a self etching primer, with an engine aluminum look enamel.







Cheers!

[q20v]

Looking good! Once everything is clean and starting to go back together things really get exciting.

[M60B40Bimmer]

Interested in opinions or thoughts on my path.
Updated path of the engine project:

.....Crank Power Goal: 500hp peak, 430hp street tune
.......................Turbo: Borg Warner S257SX-E(likely) or S362SX-E (Selection depends on detonation issues and ease end power goals) with around .88 A/R
......Exhaust Manifold: Otis' Stainless Steel Tubular manifold Non divided
......................Tuning: MegaSquirt V2 PNP with m20 turbo base tune + fuel or m30 turbo base tune, Launch control and tune switch.
.......................Clutch: UUC Performance Organic (will be street driven)
...............Differential: 3.15lsd or 3.23lsd (current 3.46lsd)
..................Internals: Stock forged rods and Stock pistons, Cleaned and balanced.
..........................Fuel: Pump 92/93 (No e85 available and I want to avoid meth/water injection)
............Fuel Injector: EV14 60lb or 80lb injectors
................Fuel Pump: Walbro 255
...................Flywheel: Old 633i lightweight flywheel, lightened SMF or uuc lightweight flywheel. Anyone have experience lightening flywheels?
..............HG Fastener: ARP Headstuds
...............Waste-gate: To be decided
..........Blow-off Valve: To be decided
....................Exhaust: Custom 3" or 3.5" with a single cat, resonator and muffler.
....................Ignition: Wasted or Sequential
...............Intercooler: To be decided depending on space
............Transmission: Getrag 260/6
........Intake Manifold: Custom aluminum or CGarage dual plenum intake from Poland.
..............Headgasket: Cometic MLS, Unsure on size (stock size if motor is being installed prior to turbo, .140 if being turbocharged on stand) Copper Spray?
..........Main Bearings: Glyco w/ OEM NEW BMW main bolt.
...........Rod Bearings: Oem BMW or Glyco, Can i reuse these conrod bolts? they're the press in to the rod type.
.................Camshaft: Stock Camshaft, Still considering turbo cam. Would the cost be worth the effort?
...............Crankshaft: Stock Crankshaft, polished and balanced. Within stock bearing spec.
.................Oil Cooler: Depends on available space.

Head mods: Rocker lockers, HD rockers bimmerheads, Gale's Banjo Bolt, Machined and cleaned, e28 m30 coolant elbow.

Paint: Thinking an e92 m3 Fire Orange for my e34 on staggered M-par style 37's.

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Questions:


(Answered) Driveshaft: Is there anything I can do to improve the strength of my driveshaft? or resistance to sheer/twisting?


(Answered) Seals: For sealslike oil pan, timing cover and rear main part seal, do i need rubber or silicone gasket alongside the new gasket to ensure a seal? Surface is
cleaned and prepped for mating.

(Answered) Crankshaft Rear Main Seal: How far in does the seal need to be? It is flush with the lip of the bore in the seal part, but it still has some room to move back.

Fuel Pressure Regulator: Do i need a aftermarket FPR? Will the 1:1 bosch work for anything or do I need to make a custom rail and implement something else.


(Answered) Vibration dampening: Are OEM engine mounts the best for vibration dampening? I want it to vibrate the chassis as little as possible.

A/c with turbos: Has anyone has experience with keeping their AC and fitting a down-pipe for a turbo? I'm curious if I am able to keep it. I can see it would create lots of space if I were to just remove it, as I really never use AC. Could be a cool option though.

Engine bay cleaning: What is delete-able (or moveable) in the engine bay? Can i move the Charcoal Canister to a less obtrusive location?


(Answered) Reliable electric fan with safety warning: Anyone know of one, or has any experience with Electric fan failure?

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Things I am looking for:

Distributor: Looking for a block off plate

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Planned projects:

Oil filter relocation: Curious if issues would arise. Plan is to use a dual port plate and two stainless steel hoses to relocate the oil filter away from the engine. Using a feed and return filter system.

[AHenry014]

Driveshaft: Is there anything I can do to improve the strength of my driveshaft? or resistance to sheer/twisting?

Look at what the e36 guys do. A lot more of them are making big power than us. I think the stocker is good for the power you are looking at making.

Seals: For sealslike oil pan, timing cover and rear main part seal, do i need rubber or silicone gasket alongside the new gasket to ensure a seal? Surface is
cleaned and prepped for mating.

I dont use sealant anywhere it wasnt used from the factory. Its worked well for me.

Crankshaft Rear Main Seal: How far in does the seal need to be? It is flush with the lip of the bore in the seal part, but it still has some room to move back.

Doesnt matter so long as its got a crank surface to seal to.

Vibration dampening: Are OEM engine mounts the best for vibration dampening? I want it to vibrate the chassis as little as possible.

Stock is the best youre gonna get.

Reliable electric fan with safety warning: Anyone know of one, or has any experience with Electric fan failure?

I am running a volvo fan and have been for years. Works awesome. No failures. Im sure theres a way to design a redundant system, but it seems like overkill.