Valley pan, Vanos, and Timing chain guides this weekend. Jack stands or ramps?

[seabass07]

Holy sheeeet. Lol

[ImTheDevil]

This is the kind of thing that makes me wonder whether the rebuilt units from Dr VANOS might be worth the money.

[waters17]

I had an idea! Rather than deal with the flimsy Harbor Freight work bench, I can mount the vise to this table I built a few years ago. The HF workbench is made from formed sheetmetal, which measures at around .045" thick. My riveted coffee table is built from .125" angle iron. If I strategically place the vise, I should be good to go.

Attachment 573713

[MightyDuc]

Yikes! Some serious déjà vu right now. I just finished this job about a month ago...

A few comments that I hope will be helpful:

- Be extremely careful when installing the vanos oil manifolds/distribution pieces. IIRC, the torque spec is something incredibly low (10 ft. lbs., maybe?). I snapped the head off one of the e-torx bolts with my 1/4" torque wrench. That was not a fun fix and it cost me quite a bit of time.

- My understanding of the whole vanos "press" procedure is that you are creating a new seal where there wasn't one previously. I could be mistaken, but to me that infers that "more" is probably acceptable in this situation. I wouldn't sweat it. For the second press, an impact would be immensely useful, along with a more substantial table.

- For what it's worth, the guides in my engine looked practically brand new. There were grooves, but they were almost imperceptible at 120k miles (and I know they haven't been replaced since I've owned it for the last ~5 years/70k). The large, U-shaped guide was fairly brittle once removed from the engine, though.

- Did you rent/buy a set of timing tools? I saw the cam blocks in one of your pics. Just curious what you intend to use to set the vanos timing wheels? I used the GAS set (which supposedly offers greater precision) and will occasionally get a code for being too advanced on one bank. Not really looking forward to going back in to adjust, but I wish you the best of luck with yours.

- Speaking of luck, you're going to need it when it comes time to reinstall that Jesus bolt. I had the engine out of the car when I did the chain job. Fabbed up a tool out of 2x2x1/4" angle iron to hold the crank and it actually ripped before I got all the way through the last 30°. Also, you probably already know this, but I wouldn't suggest using the flywheel pin when tightening the new bolt to spec. I bent mine trying to remove the Jesus bolt and am fairly certain I would've cracked the upper oil pan had I used it during reassembly.

That's all I can think of for now. Good luck!

[JimLev]

Here's a recap for the day.




During the second vanos pressing, I hit a slight snag...

Attachment 573706

I can't even get the press tool off. I think my only option now, is to install a new top on the work bench, or find someone with a more robust setup. So close, yet so far away.

Is the top of your bench wood or steel? Hard to tell from the pic.
Leave the vanos in the vice, remount it, then continue to finish the 360 deg rotation.

- - - Updated - - -

I had an idea! Rather than deal with the flimsy Harbor Freight work bench, I can mount the vise to this table I built a few years ago. The HF workbench is made from formed sheetmetal, which measures at around .045" thick. My riveted coffee table is built from .125" angle iron. If I strategically place the vise, I should be good to go.

Attachment 573713

That should work, just have the whole neighborhood sit on it, should be fine.

[waters17]

- Did you rent/buy a set of timing tools? I saw the cam blocks in one of your pics. Just curious what you intend to use to set the vanos timing wheels? I used the GAS set (which supposedly offers greater precision) and will occasionally get a code for being too advanced on one bank. Not really looking forward to going back in to adjust, but I wish you the best of luck with yours.

I bought them. ETK off of ebay. They seem to be doing okay. I did have an issue where they backed out off the cam when I was removing the sprockets. They stayed down using Jim's sparkplug tool, but they backed out.

- Speaking of luck, you're going to need it when it comes time to reinstall that Jesus bolt. I had the engine out of the car when I did the chain job. Fabbed up a tool out of 2x2x1/4" angle iron to hold the crank and it actually ripped before I got all the way through the last 30°. Also, you probably already know this, but I wouldn't suggest using the flywheel pin when tightening the new bolt to spec. I bent mine trying to remove the Jesus bolt and am fairly certain I would've cracked the upper oil pan had I used it during reassembly.

I bought a crank holding tool. It worked well when I removed the bolt.

Is the top of your bench wood or steel? Hard to tell from the pic.

Particle board... I remember the guys at work giving me a hard time about buying a HF work bench. I still think it's a good bench, but mostly for storage and small projects, like electronics or scale model cars.

- - - Updated - - -

Seriously?! More problems?! So I got the second unit pressed using the coffee table.

supbench.jpg

After I pressed the second unit, I noticed that I couldn't fully retract the vanos piston. Then I noticed it. There's a broken piece down in the cavity.

vanos1.jpg

Attachment 573746

I drew up a cross section view. I'm not sure how accurate it is, but the plastic piece is down here.
section-.png

I think I'm screwed. I'm going to see if Dr. Vanos can overnight one to me. *edit* It'll be here tomorrow.

[waters17]

I worked on it until 4am today. I was able to get the car started, but the AC belt came loose, so I shut the car off. Fixed that, and started the car back up, and the AC belt slipped again. The third time putting the AC belt back on, -it finally stays on. I start the car up the third time and the SES light comes on.

I must have messed up the timing. I'm getting a P0021 code.

The Torque app tells me:
P0021 - Powertrain
'A' Camshaft Position - Timing Over-Advanced or System Performance (Bank 2)

The timing tools seemed to have worked fine. I even went back and re-pinned it, and checked again.

A few questions:
Any tips?
If I go in there again and try to re-time it, will I be able to re-use all of the gaskets?

[JimLev]

It's probably just the trigger wheel that isn't set correctly if the engine runs OK and has good power.
Have you watched these videos?
http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...a-540tu-engine

[waters17]

It's probably just the trigger wheel that isn't set correctly if the engine runs OK and has good power.
Have you watched these videos?
http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...a-540tu-engine

I did watch the videos. I actually had them playing while I was doing the timing.

I still have the car on the jack stands. I started it up and let it run for a bit, and I revved it a little bit. -only to maybe 1,500-2,500 rpm. As the revs went higher, I noticed a ticking sound. That freaked me out a little bit, so I'm reluctant to take it for a spin. The engine seems to have a small erratic vibration too.

Should I just go ahead and re-time it?

Here's an audio clip. Idle -> rev to 1,500rpm -> 1,500rpm again -> rev to 3,000rpm.
https://soundcloud.com/andy-waters-5...ing-error-code

[waters17]

I re-timed it, and I was super careful and made sure nothing moved. Checked my work. Put it all back together. Same error. I got to thinking about he vanos press issues I was having. Maybe I messed up that vanos unit when I was trying to press it. I was looking at it closer today and noticed that when I pressed it, the plastic was not concentric with the housing. It's offset about a millimeter or two.

I've highlighted the offset in green.
Attachment 573992

I just don't understand how I can time it twice and have the same error.

I took it out around the block, and It seems to drive better, but the SES light is on. It's probably driving better because of the gaskets and vacuum hoses I replaced. Can I continue to drive with this error for a week, or will I end up damaging something?

[JimLev]

You can drive it.
Are you sure you fully rotated the inner part of the vanos CCW all the way?

[cnsorial]

Spitballing, but when I read a jaloponik article about the disastrous chain job it sounded similar to yours. Weird "ticking" noise and engine runs funny. It turned out to be a bent valve Because the timing was off. Hope that's not what happened to you.

[waters17]

Very sure. I checked and re-checked. I did notice that the inner part was more difficult to push in fully once I changed the seals. If the black plastic is creating resistance, would that cause this issue?

Also, Is there a quick way to fill the coolant with the zionsville radiator? I gotta take the car to work tomorrow, and I'm really stressing about coolant.

[JimLev]

The engine always sounds terrible for the first 2-3 min after a job like this. All of the passages need to get filled up with oil then it quiets down.
If he bent a valve the timing would have to be a few teeth off. It would run like crap.

- - - Updated - - -

What's the chance you bent one of the tabs on the trigger wheel?
I fill the engine with coolant thru the top radiator hose, cap off, keep filling it until it comes out of the upper radiator connection.

[waters17]

I wondered about that too, so I checked it out, and it seemed identical to the other one. When I removed the trigger wheel, I bagged it and set it aside. I didn't even touch it until I re-installed it.

Top radiator hose? The hose that feeds into the water pump and the alternator? Do that and wait until it comes out of the radiator where that hose was removed from?

- - - Updated - - -

I was able to put in about a gallon and a half. I'll add more tomorrow. Hopefully I won't have any issues. Thanks, Jim.

[dannyzabolotny]

Spitballing, but when I read a jaloponik article about the disastrous chain job it sounded similar to yours. Weird "ticking" noise and engine runs funny. It turned out to be a bent valve Because the timing was off. Hope that's not what happened to you.

Fun fact, I now own the car that was in that article :P

If the car runs fine otherwise, you can totally just drive it and ignore the SES code. That's what I did for my 2003 540i/6, I just ignored the code for a few months since the car ran great.

[waters17]

Fun fact, I now own the car that was in that article :P


If the car runs fine otherwise, you can totally just drive it and ignore the SES code. That's what I did for my 2003 540i/6, I just ignored the code for a few months since the car ran great.

I googled that article. Since I read your 540i thread, I'm definitely going to have to read the jalopnik article later.


The car made the commute to work fine. -It's a 45 mile drive with a great mix of stop-n-go, highway, and interstate driving. On the bright side, the diesel vanos sound is completely gone. However, the engine doesn't seem to idle very smooth. It doens't feel like it's going to die or anything, but it just doesn't feel right.


I really don't know what to do about the timing issue. I suppose a good weekend project would be to tear it down again and maybe look more into Jim's suggestion about the trigger wheel. I'm thinking I could take the trigger wheels and swap sides and see how that affects things.


Is it possible that the trigger wheel is either too far, or too close to the cps? I believe "air gap" would be the appropriate term. Maybe I'm just having difficulty putting on the bank 2 upper timing cover.

[lesguy]

idle same with AC on or off? I found that after my guides, vanos rebuild, CCV, etc..all were done. THe idle when A/C is on, is silky smooth. Consistently. With off AND when ambient temps are approx 70 or higher and engine 100% warmed up? Then idle just isnt as smooth. Per plug in scanner, ECU is telling the engine to idle at 580rpm when the engine is fully warm/AC off, and per the scanner, the engine actually is fairly steady at 580rpm. But at 580, it just isnt fully smooth. Can feel it in the seat and can visually see my gearshift (6 speed) shaking mildly. At some point I'll plan to get the A/C off idle speed bumped up a bit. Thinking I'll try 620rpm

[waters17]

idle same with AC on or off? I found that after my guides, vanos rebuild, CCV, etc..all were done. THe idle when A/C is on, is silky smooth. Consistently. With off AND when ambient temps are approx 70 or higher and engine 100% warmed up? Then idle just isnt as smooth. Per plug in scanner, ECU is telling the engine to idle at 580rpm when the engine is fully warm/AC off, and per the scanner, the engine actually is fairly steady at 580rpm. But at 580, it just isnt fully smooth. Can feel it in the seat and can visually see my gearshift (6 speed) shaking mildly. At some point I'll plan to get the A/C off idle speed bumped up a bit. Thinking I'll try 620rpm

When I put the belts back on, I was getting a horrible pulley/belt squeak coming from the AC belt. The noise was overpowering the sound of the motor, so I took the belt off, and haven't put it back on yet. The main drive belt was making some noise as well, but after about 8 miles of driving, all the noises stopped. I most likely had gotten fluid or oil on the belt. I'll know more about the idle this weekend when I get some more time to mess around with it.

*edit* I just checked the idle. It's idling anywhere from 570rpm to 590rpm. I too can see the gear shift shaking a bit.

[dannyzabolotny]

Also, did you install the upper timing covers correctly? You can't just bolt them down, you need to use the valve cover and valve cover nuts with two washers on them to essentially clamp down the upper timing covers so they're flush with the heads. If the upper timing covers aren't installed correctly it'll cause errors due to the CPS not being aligned to the trigger wheel properly.

[waters17]

I did the first time, but the second time I just pushed on the upper timing cover until it was flush with the cylinder head. That would be great if it was as simple as that. I'll try re-seating the cover tomorrow.

[waters17]

I never got around to doing anything to the car last Sunday. Jim got me thinking about that trigger wheel, so I researched instead.
I found a small bit of info regarding the alignment hole on the upper timing cover, so I thought I'd explore that avenue.

I locked the flywheel and removed the valve cover. To check the alignment, I fashioned a little pin from a M8 cap screw. Here's what I found.

Attachment 574733

Looks to be about 1° to 2° off. I'm going to set the trigger wheel to the alignment pin and see what happens.

[dannyzabolotny]

The alignment hole check is a good idea, that's helped several people here fine tune their trigger wheels to eliminate the camshaft timing codes.

[waters17]

Unfortunately, the picture I posted is what it looks like without the hold down blocks on. Once I put the blocks on, the pin lined up. I'm going to put it back together and play around with that INPA thing. Maybe I just timed it bad.

- - - Updated - - -

Whelp, I adjusted the trigger wheel/sensor wheel. I advanced it (clockwise) about a half to a full degree. (the pin overlapped the edge of the trigger wheel hole about 1mm) I drove around 20 very spirited miles and the light never came on. I scanned multiple times and turned the car off and on a few times during the drive, and not even a pending error.

Hopefully it's fixed.

-side note:
Since the p0021 code was present, doesn't that mean that the vanos was inactive the whole time? If so, does that mean that my vanos seals have not yet broken in yet?