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Thread: CES Motorsport BW 8374 EFR vs GTX35R Testing and GA 1/2 Mile event

  1. #1
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    CES Motorsport BW 8374 EFR vs GTX35R Testing and GA 1/2 Mile event

    Getting prepped and ready for the 1/2 mile event in GA this weekend ... Euro Evo Getrag 6 speed trans installed, DSS 6 spd carbon shaft installed, BW 8374 EFR turbo installed, DKnight custom underpanels installed.... Should be interesting

    ready2.jpg readycarbon-dss-6spd1.jpg ready8374-EFR.jpg

    For this event, we decided to bolt up the Borg Warner 8374 EFR turbo to our shop E36 M3 with the updated Steedspeed TwinScroll E36 manifold that is finally ready for production, to see just how well this turbo stacks up to the Garrett GTX35R. Since we have tons of dyno data with the GTX, and the 8374 is a very similar turbo, we thought it would be a great comparison. We installed Borg Warner's 1.05 a/r External WG housing on the 8374, along with the Turbosmart Hypergate 45 wastegate, and put the car on the dyno for some test runs...

    The first graph is the comparison dyno of the Borg Warner 8374 EFR turbo running their 1.05 a/r ewg T4 twinscroll housing, versus our previous best run with the Garrett GTX35R 1.06 a/r T4 twinscroll housing... Same Nick G tune with draw thru 803 MAF OBD1, MS109 Fuel, 26 psi.... Ambient Air Temps were within 5 degrees between these two runs, with the GTX run at 75 degrees and the EFR run at 80 degrees.

    We saw a net gain of +40whp and +55wtq at 3800 rpm with the EFR turbo...

    BW 8374 EFR vs GTX35R ms109 26 psi.jpg

    and.... 423wtq and 16.7psi at 3000 rpm... Is this a record for a single turbo of this size at this rpm? Flow was slightly better up top with the EFR vs the GTX, but spool was significantly better.

    EFR vs GTX spool 3k rpm.jpg

    We will post more updates after this weekend on how well this setup performed. Our previous best at this event was 168.5 mph... Looking to beat that this time around.

    The CES Motorsport Team
    Last edited by jgcm3; 05-12-2016 at 06:06 PM.

  2. #2
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    180 mph.
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  3. #3
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    Great testing as usual! This really shows the 8374 shine down low and in the mid range. EFR FTW!

    Mike
    IG: @mikevanshellenbeck

  4. #4
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    Is the EFR internally or externally gated?
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  5. #5
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    96 332IS 6466 turbo
    Will this EFR be the new turbo for the famous CES "GTX " car ?
    1996 332IS
    Built 3.2
    CES/Steed TS Precision 6466, spraying a "$π!℅" load of meth.
    Technique Tuning 80# tune.
    1/4 mile 10.84 @ 136.72
    Your 1 and only stop for all your BMW performance needs
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  6. #6
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    Nice! What injectors/fuel pump?

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  7. #7
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    I've been awaiting data on the efr turbos, this is great! Can anyone comment how the efr run starting a few hundred rpm earlier would affect the low end/mid range in this scenario? Seems to me it's giving the efr the advantage. Regardless, looks like a fantastic turbo for this motor.

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  8. #8
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    Who would think that there could be something better than a gtx at spool up.

    I wonder where the compressor taps out.
    This is my signature....

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadBoostedBmwM3 View Post
    Who would think that there could be something better than a gtx at spool up.

    I wonder where the compressor taps out.
    786 rwhp on Sound Performance's dyno (not sure of brand and some say it reads high) on a fully worked Supra.

  10. #10
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    SWEET BABY JEEZUS!!!

    Welp...that's just thrown a wrench into my build budget! How much more does an externally-gated EFR 8374 with TS housing cost than a GTX358R?

    "You don't win silver....you lose gold."

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by danomite View Post
    SWEET BABY JEEZUS!!!

    Welp...that's just thrown a wrench into my build budget! How much more does an externally-gated EFR 8374 with TS housing cost than a GTX358R?
    Probably less

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTrace View Post
    Probably less
    I'm starting to believe the BW hype...that is scary strong, and scary fast! Soooooo much spoolage!!!

    "You don't win silver....you lose gold."

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
    786 rwhp on Sound Performance's dyno (not sure of brand and some say it reads high) on a fully worked Supra.
    It's a Mustang Dyno, but reads significantly higher than a dynojet. That 786 is likely much closer to 700rwhp.
    915whp '98 M3 Sedan /// 37k Mile '95 M3

  14. #14
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    I have a sudden urge to order some aluminum sheets
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  15. #15
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    That's an impressive powerband!

    E36 · DYNO · TUNING · WIRING · PARTS

  16. #16
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    Very interested in how the driveshaft works out. What attachment is at the diff end? 6 bolt CV style or 4 bolt universal joint? Also, any chance you got a weight before bolting it in?

  17. #17
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    The carbon fiber one weighs about the same as the stock driveshaft. The Chromo one is heavier.

    Sent from my GTX3582R
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by chikinhed View Post
    The carbon fiber one weighs about the same as the stock driveshaft.
    I certainly hope not. That makes no sense! Not doubting you Brad, just wondering why the hell it's THAT heavy!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakermac View Post
    I certainly hope not. That makes no sense! Not doubting you Brad, just wondering why the hell it's THAT heavy!
    Torque. Need a lot of CF to handle the torque. Adds weight, plus the joints of course

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  20. #20
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    I hear ya! I'm still interested in knowing what joint is at the diff. Is there some sort of plunge joint like an American Iron driveshaft has at the transmission? I wanna do a lightweight driveshaft for my car, but only if I'm dropping a significant amount of weight from the 17lb OEM driveshaft that's in the car now. I'm not YET worried about mega power/torque. I'd also be very interested to know if there are any interesting harmonics in that driveshaft seeing as how it'll probably be seeing 150+ mph for a LONG time. The 84" carbon driveshaft I had in a custom build Honda started to get kind of "shaky" at 130-140mph on the dyno.



    Last edited by jakermac; 05-14-2016 at 03:09 PM.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakermac View Post
    I hear ya! I'm still interested in know what joint is at the diff. Is there some sort of plunge joitn like an American Iron driveshaft has at the transmission? I wanna do a lightweight driveshaft for my car, but only if I'm dropping a significant amount of weight from the 17lb OEM driveshaft that's in the car now. I'm not YET worried about mega power/torque. I'd also be very interested to know if there are any interesting harmonics in that driveshaft seeing as how it'll probably be seeing 150+ mph for a LONG time. The 84" carbon driveshaft I had in a custom build Honda started to get kind of "shaky" at 130-140mph on the dyno.
    Straight from their website. Regarding the CF E36 shaft

    This is our 1-piece conversion for the BMW E36 platform. The shaft is made from 2.75" x .170" tube with a 108mm CV to mount to the differential, which will eliminate any possible pinion angle issues. This shaft weighs 20lbs and since we are removing the hanger bearing, it will make the car seem more athletic and give it a smoother power transfer. This shaft is now being balanced on our new 9500RPM balancer to ensure a perfectly balanced shaft. Comes complete with adapter plates to mount up to the transmission and differential flanges and all necessary hardware for installation.
    PART# BMWSH2-CV-S

    Please Note: The E36 M3 uses either a 4-bolt or 6-bolt rear differential flange. This driveshaft is for the 6-bolt rear differential ONLY. If you're vehicle has a 4-bolt rear flange, please see part# BMWSH1-CV-C. Please verify which differential flange your vehicle has before ordering.
    Part Number: BMWSH2-CV-C

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  22. #22
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    Thank you. I have read that before.

  23. #23
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    Carbon fiber dampens vibration better than the steel does. I'd like the carbon fiber DS but it's ricey. ..... I mean pricey

    Sent from my GTX3582R
    '97 M3, Estoril blue, 2 dr, euro 6-spd, EFR 9180 divided T4 .92 IWG, RK tuning, CP 8.5:1 pistons, Eagle rods, Schrick cams, L19 11 mm ARP studs, O-ringed block, Supertech stainless/inconel valves, Supertech springs & Ti retainers, ported head, S54 oil pump/pan, 80 lb. injectors, OBD1 intake manifold, Steedspeed twin scroll T4, 3.5" SS exhaust, eBoost2 EBC, HFS-4 W/M injection, AEM Failsafe, Zeitronix data logger, Racelogic TC, OpenOBC w. ethanol %, Ireland Eng. engine mounts, UUC black tranny mounts w. enforcers, UUC twin disc feramic, ARC-8's, MCS 2-ways, Z3 rack, Rallyroad strut bar, X brace, Eibach sway bars, Ground Control LCAB bushings, Bimmerworld RTAB's, Powerflex subframe bushings, 210 4-clutch LSD, Stoptech BBK, titainium shims, steel braided lines, brake cooling ducts.

  24. #24
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    How bad does the chromoly vibrate on the street?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by E36 HateR View Post
    How bad does the chromoly vibrate on the street?
    In my opinion, a lot. Makes the car a lot less enjoyable. At about 3500 rpm my car sings and I want earplugs.

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