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Thread: Is the BMW dealership scamming me?

  1. #1
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    Is the BMW dealership scamming me?

    Got brand new M3 replicas rims and tires for my 2013 E92 coupe. Went to BMW for an alignment. Off the bat the services guy looking at my tires and giving this curious look, like something was wrong. Started asking me about my tires. Starts telling me that there's some feathering and ask me to do as he did and run my hand back and forth. I kind of played along. Told him it's hard for me to tell. In fact I felt no feathering at all. The problem is I've just put them on yesterday and have less than 20 miles on it. Then he starts pitching me about these Michelin pilots blah blah , blah. I let him talk and just thought to myself this guy can't be seriously trying to go this route. He can't be serious about convincing my brand new Dunlop tires are bad. This guy is one bold MF! Anyhow I got my alignment done and I realized that the car is now pulling right on the freeway. Before even though my old tires were wearing unevenly, it was not pulling to any side at all. I called the service rep back and he robotically went through the possible causes and one was that my tires are bad. At this point I have not brought it back. I fear that I already know what he's gonna tell me, that it's my tires.

    Are they scamming me? I sense that they are. They probably frown on anyone that don't buy rims and tires from them especially replicas! And if they lose me they only loses a customer that spends the minimum with them. What should I do?

  2. #2
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    Talk with the service manager asap. Yeah, the tech is full of bs about both Michelin and Dunlap tires. Both make great tired. It sounds like the tech wasn't paying attention.

  3. #3
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    Get a lifetime all-wheel alignment from Firestone or similar. It's perfectly fine for DD purposes, and they give you a printout of before and after settings. If you're tracking, then go to a specialty shop. It is possible to get a bad tire (but that is rare these days) - you can observe the tire grooves travel left to right when you are spinning the tire on the balance machine.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcoZandrini View Post
    Talk with the service manager asap. Yeah, the tech is full of bs about both Michelin and Dunlap tires. Both make great tired. It sounds like the tech wasn't paying attention.
    This guy is the service manager. We don't have contact with the tech that works on the cars generally.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBun View Post
    This guy is the service manager...
    Take it to an alternative BMW dealer if possible, otherwise take it to a specialist independent mechanic (BMW preferably).
    They may not be intentionally scamming you, but a second opinion couldn't hurt.

  6. #6
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    I believe you are speaking about a service advisor and not a service manager. They rarely deal with customers up front unless there is an issue. There could be multiple issues. If your suspension is F'd up physically the old set up might have been set up to track straight but doesn't mean the tires are all lined up evenly. If they have a nice hunter rack or something of the sorts you would see your camber is out most likely on the side its pulling towards. Its possible the tech didn't do the alignment right but you'll just have to see. Replica wheels don't matter, the service advisor might not like it but his ass is getting fired real fast when his CSI score starts tanking. Each customer is an individual, go in there like you know what the F your talking about and say I want this, this and this done. If anything is other than how it is when we last spoke you are to call me. Its as simple as that. Everyone thinks the dealers trying to scam them when they tell them the list of problems the car has. Its there job to tell you your oil filter housing is leaking. An indy might not bother and keep quite because you'll be happier thinking everything is perfect.

    Who put the new tires on, did it start pulling after the new tires, who did the alignment. Why did you get new tires, did you hit a pot hole and get a blow out. Some of the tires BMW sell's such, like the goodyears I believe they where that come on all the 5 series. They bubble left and right.
    Last edited by BimmerDude3; 04-26-2016 at 05:26 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by BimmerDude3 View Post
    I believe you are speaking about a service advisor and not a service manager. They rarely deal with customers up front unless there is an issue. There could be multiple issues. If your suspension is F'd up physically the old set up might have been set up to track straight but doesn't mean the tires are all lined up evenly. If they have a nice hunter rack or something of the sorts you would see your camber is out most likely on the side its pulling towards. Its possible the tech didn't do the alignment right but you'll just have to see. Replica wheels don't matter, the service advisor might not like it but his ass is getting fired real fast when his CSI score starts tanking. Each customer is an individual, go in there like you know what the F your talking about and say I want this, this and this done. If anything is other than how it is when we last spoke you are to call me. Its as simple as that. Everyone thinks the dealers trying to scam them when they tell them the list of problems the car has. Its there job to tell you your oil filter housing is leaking. An indy might not both and keep quite because you'll be happier thinking everything is perfect. Who put the new tires on, did it start pulling after the new tires, who did the alignment. Why did you get new tires, did you hit a pot hole and get a blow out. Some of the tires BMW sell's such, like the goodyears I believe they where that come on all the 5 series. They bubble left and right.
    You're right, I'm taking about the service advisor.

    I got new rims and tires cause the old tires were worn. The front , one was wearing on the outside edge. And it was not pulling at all. Went straight. After the new rims and tires were put on, I had not noticed the car pulling while driving about 10 miles to the dealership. Only a few days after did I notice a freeway pull like how one would lane change on the freeway.

    Yes there are so many things that it could be but this guy saying there was feathering on brand new tires, is a joke. But he was so confident. As if his mechanic back there can rigg the numbers or re-adjust the alignment after it's been completed to cause the pull so I could come back and he would tell me it's the tires. I can't prove it but I'm not liking whats happening.

    Here are the numbers.

    https://flic.kr/p/FGCau1

  8. #8
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    Agree asking for the Svc Mgr----not the service advisor. If no resolution. I've utilized lifetime alignment from Firestone, Big O tires etc...----Most people buy it an never get it aligned again, while I was also in there about 12 to 18 months at a shot. It prolonged the life of my tires :-). Good Luck
    ]

  9. #9
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    Since you didn't talk to the manager yet, talk to that person...as Bimmerdude says, if you are confident they will respect you.
    The Mgr has an obligation to make people happy as opposed to the advisor...he (the advisor) may have just made a mistake, he is (probably) human...

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doge View Post
    Since you didn't talk to the manager yet, talk to that person...as Bimmerdude says, if you are confident they will respect you. The Mgr has an obligation to make people happy as opposed to the advisor...he (the advisor) may have just made a mistake, he is (probably) human...
    You must not know about the reputation of car salesmen and service advisors! They are one and the same. Trying to convince me that my tires were feathering after I told him I just put it on yesterday, is no mistake. Complaining about stuff to the cook about your food that he's cooking and asking him to make you a new dish may not be the smartest thing to do. I have to tread carefully.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBun View Post
    You must not know about the reputation of car salesmen and service advisors! They are one and the same. Trying to convince me that my tires were feathering after I told him I just put it on yesterday, is no mistake. Complaining about stuff to the cook about your food that he's cooking and asking him to make you a new dish may not be the smartest thing to do. I have to tread carefully.
    Wrong!! Do as the others have suggested-Speak to the Service Manager/Journeyman technician for the shop!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBun View Post
    You must not know about the reputation of car salesmen and service advisors! They are one and the same. Trying to convince me that my tires were feathering after I told him I just put it on yesterday, is no mistake. Complaining about stuff to the cook about your food that he's cooking and asking him to make you a new dish may not be the smartest thing to do. I have to tread carefully.
    I am sorry you have had such bad experiences.
    However, you are incorrect about your assessment. I have dealt with both, but I don't let them talk their "voodoo" to me. You made a mistake by not listening to your gut when the tech started talking about feathering tire wear. Tires, as you already know, cannot wear as such in the time frame you provided. You should have requested, then and there, to speak with the Manager.
    A service Manager SHOULD uphold the quality and integrity of the service performed for that dealership with respect to all of the techs/advisors that work there...that is why they have a manager in the first place.

    If you don't want to believe me, fine. I am not the only one suggesting this course of action though.
    I give people the benefit of the doubt. That adivsor may by trying to scam you, OR, maybe he is an idiot. Either way, you need to speak with the Manager. I am a technician and manager by trade, I care deeply about the quality of the product I produce and the customers perception of quality. This is why I say these things, the service Manager should feel similarly.

    I have worked in food service, are you implying that if your chicken was under-cooked you wouldn't say anything? Again, in this example the chef is responsible for his line cooks. If one of his line cooks makes an error, the chef is usually extremely gracious unless they're a d-bag. The chef should yell at that cook for trying to poison someone, comp your meal, and cook the replacement himself...Sounds kind of like the core message above, no?
    Last edited by Doge; 04-27-2016 at 11:01 AM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBun View Post
    You must not know about the reputation of car salesmen and service advisors! They are one and the same. Trying to convince me that my tires were feathering after I told him I just put it on yesterday, is no mistake. Complaining about stuff to the cook about your food that he's cooking and asking him to make you a new dish may not be the smartest thing to do. I have to tread carefully.
    I'm quite aware of reputations and recognize that when the milk smells bad, I don't drink it. The two, are, in fact, not the same. If you sense there is an error and do not speak up, you, sir, then have only one person to blame. Your course of action is simple: request to speak with the service manager and right - er, correct - the ship.

  14. #14
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    Well I decided to get my tires re-balanced and do another alignment somewhere else.

    Here are the numbers.


    Before
    https://flic.kr/p/FGCau1

    After
    https://flic.kr/p/GHbmNx

    Road weight test
    https://flic.kr/p/Gi82AE


    The front camber are non-adjustable so only toe were adjusted. The after camber reading is actually more of what I expected when I measured with a my little rectangular leveler. The right seemed slightly straighter.

    All my tires were off balanced and they fixed that. That's another story where I got them done.

    After all this it still pulled to the right but not as much as before but enough to know.

    The guy said there's no way my brand new tires can be feathered as the BMW serviCe advisor claimed. I've chosen not to go back to them and just sever the bad relationship.

    Auto innovation says that their Hunter tool indicates that the tire should pull right. There's a test that mimics road driving. That it's highly likely the tire is causing it and that I don't need to swap it to test, cause that's what the test is for. Funny that he should tell me this after, when previously he said he would swap sides and do a road test. But whatever.

    Now the question, does this new camber reading indicate that it should pull right due to alignment seeing that it's more positive on the right?
    Last edited by JohnBun; 04-29-2016 at 09:34 PM.

  15. #15
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    I don't think so.
    From what I know about alignments, toe should be the contributing factor. It's supposed to be toed-in a little bit to compensate for bump-steer. It's strange that the toe range is different from one place to the next. But AFAIK camber's only attributing factor is cornering. When taking a turn the body rolls and the camber allows the contact patch of the tire to not roll to the outside edge. If the toe was in on one side and out on the other (as was the case in the before column from the dealer) that should allow the car to pull in the direction of the biased toe, in your case the passenger side. (Plus you're camber is only 0.02 different, that is almost insignificant)

    I had a bad tire and it cause all sorts of weird things to happen, but your new tires really shouldn't have an issue...That being said, it is not unheard of for new things to take a dump off the bat. I'm not suggesting this is the case, but what if the tire was installed "improperly"?

    If it were me, I would ask that tire place if that is even possible. Maybe they could re-seat them?
    New rims and new tires should not be doing that, unless there is a structural issue with the front suspension...Like the control arms being "bad" for example.

    Is your steering only pulling? Or is it also a bit loose?

  16. #16
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    The new place said BMW alignment should pull right because of the caster diff as well. And your saying the toe would also.

    Btw the camber is .2 diff not .02 will that now make a diff?

    I wouldn't put it past the tire guy to damage my tires. He was fishing for tips and I intended to tip After he got done with all four but he jump the gun thinking I wasn't going to. He put my back tires in the wrong direction, kicked my rim off when removing it, over torqued my rims, scratched them when installing the new tires. So yeah I don't think going back to him is a good idea. Oh and unbalanced them. He really thought he could pull one over someone who is way better off them him in life. (Hence why he is where he is, unhappy with his life enough to hate on me and think slick enough to not be figured out.) Now There's a chance that this 40 year old could just be horrible at his job and was completely wrong about him....but I digress.

    My steering is firm and not loose. Next step is to swap left to right and see where the pull goes.
    Last edited by JohnBun; 04-30-2016 at 03:32 AM.

  17. #17
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    Oh and the tire test also suggest that the tire should cause a pull to the right but I will need to swap test to verify once and for all. See third pic.

  18. #18
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    It sounds to me like the constant in these various scenarios is the customer...

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ss109 View Post
    It sounds to me like the constant in these various scenarios is the customer...
    Yeah I do admit it may seems that way. I'm untrusting, negative at times, antisocial, and give off a less than intelligent impression. Those combinations can cause a whole lot of problems. But I'm here getting an opinion on whether all these things that are going through my head are more likely to be true or false. I'm not claiming that all these things ARE true.

    But why don't you elaborate a little more on what you mean by what you said.

    You seem to think the world is some fairytale place where all business people are caring, honest and soul purpose in life is to look out for you....
    Last edited by JohnBun; 04-30-2016 at 01:57 PM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBun View Post
    Btw the camber is .2 diff not .02 will that now make a diff?
    He really thought he could pull one over someone who is way better off them him in life. (Hence why he is where he is, unhappy with his life enough to hate on me and think slick enough to not be figured out.)
    You're right, I can't do math that late at night...I should know better. And still no, I don't think there is much of a difference.
    I think that if you are presenting yourself in such a way in front of them they will likely think the same about you...no one likes to be condescended to. Then again, fishing for a tip before a job is completed is pretty scummy.

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBun View Post
    Oh and the tire test also suggest that the tire should cause a pull to the right but I will need to swap test to verify once and for all. See third pic.
    The hunter machine only tells you a bias on a tire, not the cause. It could be the tire, but why would it pull? I think that something else should cause this, unless you have the unlikely scenario of a bad, brand new, tire. Swap away, hopefully it tells you something useful.

    Please refrain from philosophical discussions, negativity is the only result. OP is allowed to think the way he wants, as is everyone else.
    This is a BMW forum not NPR.

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