Ceramic brakes ain't got no soul.

[auaq]

I've already the cut front rotors once already probably about two years ago and now the brake pulsation is back again, so that's another thing.

I've cleaned and greased all of the brake components but alas it hasn't made any real difference. In the end, those ceramic pads are just not desirable for me.

[paul p]

Liking the Pagids so far.
Might be giving up a tiny bit of initial bite over OEM, but braking force 'ramps up' immediately.
Modulation is child's play too.

A day Kinderschlepping and two commutes later starting to notice slight dusting the wheels but still seems less than stock.
Considering they are 1/2 the price as well, i'm quite happy.

[paul p]

Pick your poison.
While the front wheels are filthy, the car still brakes beyoooooootifuly.
Small price to pay considering dust washes off easily VS semi race pads like Porterfield RS4s we used to run on street/autoX/track cars.

If you DIY and do real track days like Gingerman or ..... Road America
Best have dedicated pads for that.
*shrugs*

[Mike WW]

Wow, almost like oil threads, except more civil.

I put Akebonos on my first touring back in '09. Didn't really notice much difference in the braking dept and I was looking for it. The difference on the style 5s was of course dramatic and the things didn't seem to wear. With 100K on them the fronts were probably less than 25% worn and the rears maybe a third. Rotors looked great too. I'm a big fan, it's what I use now.

[paul p]

Wow, almost like oil threads, except more civil.

At least brake pad threads have an objective component, wheel dusting.
And the purely subjective metric, brake feel.
Very few of us can afford back/back testing of pad material.
Time or Cash.

Oil threads automatically devolve into appeal to authority or ad hominem. Us users barely have any real data or anecdotes.
Just sayin....

I put Akebonos on my first touring back in '09. Didn't really notice much difference in the braking dept and I was looking for it. The difference on the style 5s was of course dramatic and the things didn't seem to wear.

That's the crux of it. Every time I've tried ceramic pads, the initial 'bite' is lacking.
I've used semi race pads that needed some heat to function properly. But once they've warmed up.
*shrugs*

[ACS5]

Had Akebonos on mine. An absolute "no go" for an E39 if you ask me: way less bite than what OEM, plus about 10k miles down the road rear pads lost their snug fit and were clunking horrible each time I'd go over a slightest bump. Went back to Textar and dusting my wheels every other day.

[paul p]

So I've had one issue cropping up lately.
When stuck in slow highway stop&go traffic for a while, there's an occasional squeal using light pressure. Letting go or getting on em harder makes it go away
This might not be pad or fitment related IMO. Haven't had time to pull and reset the pads tho.

What do ya'll use to lubricate the caliper pins with. What I cleaned off seems thicker than synth Mobil1 red grease or even goopy generic black caliper grease.
Much less 'give' to it.

[ViolinARC]

My plan for next brake refresh will be Zimmerman rotors and either Textar or going to try what Philly has on his - Carbotech pads. I also plan to replace the brake lines and flush the fluid too. Even though I have plenty of brake pad life in the front I just don't have any braking confidence in them anymore. The brake pedal is too spongy and soft. Plus, brake shimmy is back again. The rotors were already cut once about two years ago. Rears are Brembo discs with Cool Carbon. Either ways I'm going to replace all four of them.

Yo Auaq...when this was happening to me (returning brake-n-shake after replacing fluid, calipers, rotors and pads), it turned out that my TAB's were beat. After replacing with Powerflex PFF5-501B, all that shaking when braking has TOTALLY disappeared. I didn't do anything to the brakes this time around and they were shaking like crazy before the TAB replacement...

EDIT: I'm aware that this was posted a while back...

- - - Updated - - -

So I've had one issue cropping up lately.
When stuck in slow highway stop&go traffic for a while, there's an occasional squeal using light pressure. Letting go or getting on em harder makes it go away
This might not be pad or fitment related IMO. Haven't had time to pull and reset the pads tho.

What do ya'll use to lubricate the caliper pins with. What I cleaned off seems thicker than synth Mobil1 red grease or even goopy generic black caliper grease.
Much less 'give' to it.

From my experience with squealing brakes, it's the pads and their contact points. You need to carefully apply anti-squeal paste to all the contact points and you will defeat this issue. It's interesting when I go to a BMW shop and hear a car that just had brake work, squeal to a stop when my 16-yo DIY brake job e39 silently glides to a stop...

It took a couple replacements to get silent braking but I definitely figured out that it was proper application of the anti-squeal paste...

I used a decent quality silicone based grease for the caliper pins on my '00. It seems to work well as I get a very even and consistent pedal feel. I'm going to have to attack the new-to-me '03 because the pedal feel is constantly changing. It probably needs a fluid flush and caliper servicing...

[paul p]

Ok. Make of this, what you will.

After running both cars thru an auto touchless carwash.
The wheels on Gerta w/ OEM pads came out perfectly clean
The wheels on Bjorn w/ Pagid pads were still a little dirty.

Since we're still in 'winter' mode, not really worried about appearances. But still...

*shrugs*

- - - Updated - - -

From my experience with squealing brakes, it's the pads and their contact points. You need to carefully apply anti-squeal paste to all the contact points and you will defeat this issue. It's interesting when I go to a BMW shop and hear a car that just had brake work, squeal to a stop when my 16-yo DIY brake job e39 silently glides to a stop...
It took a couple replacements to get silent braking but I definitely figured out that it was proper application of the anti-squeal paste...
I used a decent quality silicone based grease for the caliper pins on my '00. It seems to work well as I get a very even and consistent pedal feel. I'm going to have to attack the new-to-me '03 because the pedal feel is constantly changing. It probably needs a fluid flush and caliper servicing...

Lots of fun bringing a thread back from the grave (or at least 7 months back), cause since the dog days of summer .... haven't heard a single peep from the brakes.
We'll see if that's still the case once things warm up

[sealbeach740]

Since we've talked about brake squeal, I'd like to add that I have Akebonos on all 3 of my BMWs. And, each time I put Akes on, I used CRC Brake Quiet on the back of each pad. I have not heard a squeal or sound out of any of the 3 cars when slow stopping, normal stopping or (very infrequently) quick/hard stops.

While I won't say the Akebonos have the same feel as OEM pads, I do know I can get my Akes to initiate an ABS controlled stop (which, in my mind, is the safest emergency stop a non-professional driver can do). Beyond that, if you want a better "bite", just push the brake pedal down a wee more.
Of course, this is just my point of view. Different views for different people.

[XAlt]

I've been driving with extra rusted Brembos and supposedly OEM pads for the longest time until they actually started to clunk on me. They stopped pretty reliably, but the build-up never seemed to stop, especially when the car sits for weeks at a time.

20161230_115037.jpg

New cheapo powdercoted Meyle Rotors/Akebono pads and it feels perfect for me, plenty of bite, for now. I'm probably just satisfied I can brake like a normal person now.

[f355spider]

I asked few people if braided lines are worth for upgrade or not. The response I've got so far is that they've hardly noticed any difference at all in pedal feel. Feels like stock. I'm going to say at current 213k mi and with stock and original brake lines, I think it's time to replace them and go with those stainless steel braided lines.

That is exactly my experience. I swapped mine out at around 25k miles for Stop Tech lines...no difference in pedal feel...still spongy, I think it is just what it is for that combination of master cylinder and calipers. But if you do go this route, I would recommend purchasing the ECS Tuning braided lines for two important reasons: 1) they include the two lines near the ABS ECU, so you get a set of six lines, instead of four, 2) the ECS lines have oem style fittings on each end, so they will not "clock" or rotate in the mountings. This is critical! All other brands do not have this, so the line can rotate in such a way that the line will rub on the fender liner on the front. Happened to me, and eventually the line failed and I lost my brakes! Fortunately it happened while I was only driving 10mph in a parking lot, and was able to down shift and use the parking brake to come to a safe stop.

I inspect those lines anytime remove the wheels or have the car on a lift, to ensure they have not loosened or moved (fortunately they never have, so I am blaming this on a bad installation by the shop I had install them).

- - - Updated - - -

I've already the cut front rotors once already probably about two years ago and now the brake pulsation is back again, so that's another thing.

I've cleaned and greased all of the brake components but alas it hasn't made any real difference. In the end, those ceramic pads are just not desirable for me.

I had the same happen before, and thought I needed the rotors turned. I was told I more likely had brake pad deposited on the rotors. Was told this is a common misdiagnosis, and pad deposition is most often the culprit. Went through the brake pad bedding procedure found on a website, and sure enough, it fixed the issue of pulsing. I was surprised.

- - - Updated - - -

I've been driving with extra rusted Brembos and supposedly OEM pads for the longest time until they actually started to clunk on me. They stopped pretty reliably, but the build-up never seemed to stop, especially when the car sits for weeks at a time.

20161230_115037.jpg

New cheapo powdercoted Meyle Rotors/Akebono pads and it feels perfect for me, plenty of bite, for now. I'm probably just satisfied I can brake like a normal person now.

I don't know if Brembo ever started painting the hubs or "hats" on their rotors, but I got so fed up a few years ago, I took off my wheels, scrubbed the hell out of them with a wire brush, then masked and sprayed them with two coats of zinc primer, then two coats of silver paint. Fixed! I later replaced the front rotors and went with Zimmerman Z coated ones (Z for zinc, presumably)

[paul p]

Since we've talked about brake squeal, I'd like to add that I have Akebonos on all 3 of my BMWs. And, each time I put Akes on, I used CRC Brake Quiet on the back of each pad. I have not heard a squeal or sound out of any of the 3 cars when slow stopping, normal stopping or (very infrequently) quick/hard stops.

This has to help a lot. I've never had the time nor patience to let a good shmear of goop set on backs of pads tho.
*shrugs*

I do know I can get my Akes to initiate an ABS controlled stop (which, in my mind, is the safest emergency stop a non-professional driver can do).

The sign of a good brake job. By design you should be able to overpower the tires by hitting that pedal.
Be it setting off ABS, or locking up multiple tires w/o.

Beyond that, if you want a better "bite", just push the brake pedal down a wee more.
Of course, this is just my point of view. Different views for different people.

I prefer grabby side of 'perfect' VS vague.

[computiNATEor]

This thread mirrors my feelings exactly on my now-deceased Akebono Ceramics. The low dust formulation was great, and they still have more than enough friction to engage the ABS, even at triple digit speeds, but the initial bite was so poor that I could hardly stand it. Not at all confidence inspiring.

I've ordered a set of ECS Tuning's slotted and drilled brake rotors and CoolCarbon S/Ts; those should be arriving in the mail today. I ordered the drilled and slotted rotors for a couple of reasons.

- First, it lowers the rotating unsprung mass of the car, where even small tweaks will pay big dividends in responsiveness. Other than a lightweight set of wheels, this is about the only way to lower that number.

- Second, ECS does not make a set of rotors that are only slotted. I probably would have bought the just slotted rotors had they been available.

- Third, I hope to get a big increase in brake bite, and get a firmer pedal, with the installation of ECS's bronze caliper guide bushings. I'll post a full review, maybe even a little video, if that's something people would like to see.

[paul p]

This thread mirrors my feelings exactly on my now-deceased Akebono Ceramics. The low dust formulation was great, and they still have more than enough friction to engage the ABS, even at triple digit speeds, but the initial bite was so poor that I could hardly stand it.
Not at all confidence inspiring.

That's really it.
If I brush the brakes, still want some instant initial bite. Responsiveness .... communication from the system.
There's a lot to be gained from flushing the fluid and lubing the calipers.
Eventually tho it's just the pads.

The two best braking cars I've driven regularly are Gerta our dealer serviced creampuff (till we got her). And this Volvo 740 turbo I once owned. Scary car, boost cranked to 13psi and, well, it's a Volvo.
Handling, was ..... possible. But Thor didn't like turns.
The braking tho, like the acceleration. Was Spectacular

Gerta obv has dealer pads.
No idea what Thor had. But they were spectacular.

[paul p]

Welp, here we go again.
Did the fronts on Björn after 50k miles.
Caliper pins and boots needed some more attention this time.
Aesthetics suffered.

That said, took a chance on SM Jurid pads this time. All that local euro part joint had in stock.
They have as good a bite as Pagids, maybe slightly better.
Classic 'grabby' autobahn braking in effect!



Can still live w/ the dust.

[SW530]

Did you bed your pads this time around?

[StephenVA]

They are one of the OE builder/suppliers

[paul p]

Did you bed your pads this time around?

Do it every time. Picture was taken just before throwing the wheels back on, and with the basketweaves on the car, can't really get a good after shot like back in 2016.
Live just a few blocks from I-94 so can usually hop on late night to do the high speed braking cycles and then return to my neighborhood for the slow speed stuff.

[paul p]

They are one of the OE builder/suppliers

Yup, confirmed that via FCP while waiting at the parts store for some other stuff. They offered some sort of ceramic as an 'upgrade' which I politely noted wasn't one IMO.