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Thread: Garage broke my ball joint

  1. #1
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    Garage broke my ball joint

    Please help
    The reputable dealer workshop couldn't adjust my tracking as the adjusting bolt had seized. (110k miles)
    They spent some time trying to free it and it sheered so car is not drive-able until a new ball joint is fitted.

    Where do I stand legally?
    Should the garage pay for the replacement ball joint? Is a new ball joint the only option as I have been told??
    Should I have to pay anything??
    Can I get them to tow it to a garage of my choice to have the bolt drilled out and a new one inserted??
    Should I contact trading standards/ citizens advice or just BMW customer services??

    I need to make a decision tomorrow. Totally depressed. So all advice welcome. ( I'm not a noob, lost all login details :-) )

  2. #2
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    Sounds like the shop did their best to work with what is clearly a poorly maintained, looked after car subjected to abusive, high wear and tear conditions and despite this inevitably broke a bolt before it came free.

    Why don't you look to yourself to place some of that blame?
    Tenured Automotive Service Professional - Avid BMW Enthusiast

  3. #3
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    "clearly a poorly maintained, looked after car subjected to abusive, high wear and tear conditions"

    Very harsh mate.

    The car has Full dealer stamps except 1 in the service book over the 7 yrs and 110k miles.
    Car is driven smoothly and sensibly the average 50mpg shows that.

    So I take zero blame for the fault.

  4. #4
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    The fact that you have no idea what I'm alluding to serves to solidify my point.

    You could be getting 100mpg driving through salt infested snow that attacks the metal on your suspension underpinnings among other things and it wouldn't change the fact.

    Of course you take zero fault. Shops hate customers like you.
    Tenured Automotive Service Professional - Avid BMW Enthusiast

  5. #5
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    Funny guy.

    Anybody got any useful help or advice?

  6. #6
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    Just because its not fitting to your agenda doesn't make it less helpful. Fact is you're not taking responsibility for the condition your car was in when you brought it to this shop for an alignment, and you're placing 100% of the blame on the shop for trying to loosen the bolt that inevitably broke off. Bolts don't magically corrode while a car is in the shop, it is an ongoing process from years of driving on salty snowy roads without proper maintenance of the undercarriage... At the very least frequent washings throughout the winter and preferably a petroleum based undercoating applied at the beginning of each winter season.

    If you want advice more helpful than that you can START but offering useful details like:

    Year / model of car
    What corner of suspension
    Which specific adjustment point in question

    But at the end of the day anyone here would be wasting thier time replying to you, as you clearly refuse to accept any personal responsibility in the degradation of your vehicle that lead up to the shop being blamed.
    Tenured Automotive Service Professional - Avid BMW Enthusiast

  7. #7
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    Not sure why you have any ability to make assertions on the usage or condition of his vehicle.

    I'm not able to help OP as I live in the US and laws are obviously very different here. Out here I'd expect for the shop to at least cover labor to install the new part, if not cover the repair in it's entirety. Regardless of the condition of the part beforehand, a competent mechanic would say "this looks like it might be in danger of stripping, are you prepared for that?" before delving into the repair and causing damage.

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  8. #8
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    Calm down fellas...Breaker, I must agree with you. Shop should have given warning first, taking liability off themselves.

  9. #9
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    Unless they acted irresponsibly, like trying to loosen the bolt with a 1" impact gun, they shouldn't be liable. Bolts corrode and break, $**t happens. But since yoou seem to be "sue happy", you should move to the States, we probably have a program that buys cars for immigrants.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stück View Post
    Sounds like the shop did their best to work with what is clearly a poorly maintained, looked after car subjected to abusive, high wear and tear conditions and despite this inevitably broke a bolt before it came free.

    Why don't you look to yourself to place some of that blame?
    WTF do you know about the OP's car? Corrosion(google it, sport)is common in many places and is no fault of the owner. It is also entirely possible the nut was cross threaded or over tightened when installed. Get off your high horse.
    @OP, Just bad luck, sir. By your own story they tried and shouldn't be held responsible. Oh, not everyone here is an asshat.
    This "general" forum never ceases to amuse me.
    Last edited by ross1; 07-24-2015 at 07:27 AM.

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  11. #11
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    No shop in their right mind is going to call a customer and brief them on the pros/cons of a rust seized bolt every time one is encountered. At best you can spray it with penetrating oil and apply heat, both of which cost the shop valuable time and money that 99% of vehicle owners aren't willing to pay for. At the end of the day customers rarely if ever own a deficiency with their car, its always someone elses fault they were unaware of the problems with their vehicle.

    I've lived in winter climates where the roads are heavily salted, not unlike England, and I know very well what it can and will do to cars subjected to those conditions with no measures taken to counter the damage before it occurs.
    Tenured Automotive Service Professional - Avid BMW Enthusiast

  12. #12
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    Its all about location, if you live in a place with long winters and salted roads then its going to get corroded one way or another. Around here even you'd be hard pressed to find a car over 4 years old without corrosion even if it has been rustproofed every year.

    Either way it's not the shops falt or problem, it's just one of those shit happens situatiotions. Most of the good shops here are used to it and will hit the nut with a torch first if it looks very corroded but it still happens that it shears off once it a while.

  13. #13
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    Buy the ball joint and move on. Done.
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  14. #14
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    While I agree Stuck is in an unusually bitter mood, he is correct in his musings.

    roos1 : while the corrosion that happens to the OP's vehicle may not be his fault, it is his responsibility.

    Barring having made any precautions, a 7 year old, 110k mile vehicle that may or may not have ever had an alignment before is going to have a seized tie rod adjuster. They coulda shoulda woulda a million things but they didn't know it was going to break until it broke.

    OP: Pony up and buy TWO new tie rods for them to install and ask that prior to installation that they unscrew the two halves of each rod to coat the threads with anti-seize compound.
    Quote Originally Posted by B4SH View Post
    If anyone knows, it's this guy who knows literally nothing about everything.
    Quote Originally Posted by fcvapor05 View Post
    Do you even OT? The mean 401k around here is probably about $6, what with all the shiny cars and $1,000 watches and donations to get other members' Volvos running.


  15. #15
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    I agree $hit happins when working on cars. Not the shop fault . If bolt sheared doubt the ball joint has ever been replaced.
    Maybe get a deal on new ball joint or a couple bucks off labor at best.
    Joys of owning a car. Get over it move on.


  16. #16
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    i'm pretty sure that the OP is talking about a broken tie rod.

    If the shop managed to break a ball joint while doing an alignment, they're doing something wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by B4SH View Post
    If anyone knows, it's this guy who knows literally nothing about everything.
    Quote Originally Posted by fcvapor05 View Post
    Do you even OT? The mean 401k around here is probably about $6, what with all the shiny cars and $1,000 watches and donations to get other members' Volvos running.


  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stück View Post
    No shop in their right mind is going to call a customer and brief them on the pros/cons of a rust seized bolt every time one is encountered. At best you can spray it with penetrating oil and apply heat, both of which cost the shop valuable time and money that 99% of vehicle owners aren't willing to pay for. At the end of the day customers rarely if ever own a deficiency with their car, its always someone elses fault they were unaware of the problems with their vehicle.

    I've lived in winter climates where the roads are heavily salted, not unlike England, and I know very well what it can and will do to cars subjected to those conditions with no measures taken to counter the damage before it occurs.
    I've fixed crummy old cars in Chicago for 40 years. You need to spend some quality time under rusty cars. You haven't a clue what it is like.

    - - - Updated - - -



    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Critter7r View Post
    While I agree Stuck is in an unusually bitter mood, he is correct in his musings.

    roos1 : while the corrosion that happens to the OP's vehicle may not be his fault, it is his responsibility.

    Barring having made any precautions, a 7 year old, 110k mile vehicle that may or may not have ever had an alignment before is going to have a seized tie rod adjuster. They coulda shoulda woulda a million things but they didn't know it was going to break until it broke.

    OP: Pony up and buy TWO new tie rods for them to install and ask that prior to installation that they unscrew the two halves of each rod to coat the threads with anti-seize compound.
    Absolutely. It wasn't me who suggested it is nor that the shop should be held responsible.
    BTW, has anyone else noticed the OP's profile? 320d? He's long gone and laughing at us.
    Last edited by ross1; 07-25-2015 at 12:53 AM.

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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ross1 View Post
    I've fixed crummy old cars in Chicago for 40 years. You need to spend some quality time under rusty cars. You haven't a clue what it is like.

    - - - Updated - - -



    - - - Updated - - -



    Absolutely. It wasn't me who suggested it is nor that the shop should be held responsible.
    BTW, has anyone else noticed the OP's profile? 320d? He's long gone and laughing at us.
    What's so strange about a 320d? They are very common in the UK.

    As to the OP, at 110K the tie-rod end would likely have needed to be replaced if not now, then very soon anyway. If this is your regular mechanic and you expect him to continue to service your then I would pay for the part and move on.

  19. #19
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  20. #20
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    When figuring the labor to du a job, it is a common practice to use a multiplier approx 1.5-1.7warranty (KSD, BMW's job time) to calculate what to charge the customer, this basically accounts for frozen and rusty nuts, bolts, etc. If the shop used this value then an equitable solution would be to replace the ball joint for the cost of the part plus any ancillary charge for whatever needs to be removed. I.E e46 ball joint is part of the lower contol arm so you could add in the cost to remove the lower control arm and also to replace the control arm bushings.

  21. #21
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    Sounds like lower, rear "ball joint" and camber bolt to me.
    This has nothing to do with maintenance of the car.
    Sometimes bolts snap. With a socket on the end you won't see if the nut is turning or the bolt is shearing.
    It's an £8 Bolt plus nut and washer.
    A £10-ish bush of you choose a cheap one and a £20-ish one if you choose an expensive one.
    2 mins to remove and 2 mins to replace on the car with the right tools. Lower control arm does not need to come off. The brake caliper does not even need to come off unless doing the top bush.
    A healthy amount of copperslip on the bolt and in the bush tube on reassembly should stop it happening again.
    Last edited by E36328Coupe; 07-25-2015 at 07:33 AM.
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  22. #22
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    [QUOTE=Cheyne;28695324]What's so strange about a 320d? They are very common in the UK.
    QUOTE]
    Nothing apparently. I'm not familiar with all the oil burners sold in Europe, the unfamiliar model # had me think the OP was driving an MB.

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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by E36328Coupe View Post
    Sounds like lower, rear "ball joint" and camber bolt to me.
    This has nothing to do with maintenance of the car.
    Sometimes bolts snap. With a socket on the end you won't see if the nut is turning or the bolt is shearing.
    It's an £8 Bolt plus nut and washer.
    A £10-ish bush of you choose a cheap one and a £20-ish one if you choose an expensive one.
    2 mins to remove and 2 mins to replace on the car with the right tools. Lower control arm does not need to come off. The brake caliper does not even need to come off unless doing the top bush.
    A healthy amount of copperslip on the bolt and in the bush tube on reassembly should stop it happening again.
    This. He could have begged for enough money to buy a replacement in the time it took to post about it 6 times.

    Bolts corrode, stuff breaks ... it's part of owning an old car.

  24. #24
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    Is it the camber adjusting bolt on the rear lower control arm? If the head of the bolt broke off, can they hammer out the shaft from the balljoints metal sleeve? If not, the corrosion inside the sleeve/shaft was too bad then. Not the shops fault for the corrosion. It sounds like the shop warned you the bolt was seized and its pretty common if the bolts were never replaced or lubed with copper grease. No matter what, it was already corroded and you would need to replace those two pieces if you wanted to correctly align your rear end.

    My rear adjusting bolts were also heavily corroded. One sheared but was able to hammer out the shaft from the balljoints metal sleeve and the other bolt was free but had to hammer from the backside due to corrosion.

    You could replace them every 5 years and lube them with copper grease to avoid this problem.

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