Help Needed: Steering shaft flexible coupling

[f50nut]

I've been trying to search and identify which part I need to order. My steering is very loose. On the highway, I can turn the wheel a couple of inches in either direction and the car continues straight. In addition to loose steering, it's tramlining pretty badly. Going to replace all the bushings under the car, and most importantly the lower steering shaft rag joint.

Having a hard time identifying that part though. Is it this one?

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...15#32311092644

Do we have to replace the whole shaft or can the joint be replaced separately like on the E36? Any help on this would be appreciated, looking to order the parts today.

Thanks

[saneesh8]

I think Greg (gmushial) replaced it with a cheaper alternative..

Also found this..

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...-favorite-mods

[gmushial]

I've been trying to search and identify which part I need to order. My steering is very loose. On the highway, I can turn the wheel a couple of inches in either direction and the car continues straight. In addition to loose steering, it's tramlining pretty badly. Going to replace all the bushings under the car, and most importantly the lower steering shaft rag joint.

Having a hard time identifying that part though. Is it this one?

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...15#32311092644

Do we have to replace the whole shaft or can the joint be replaced separately like on the E36? Any help on this would be appreciated, looking to order the parts today.

Thanks

That's the correct part, and if you can order it and have the money, that's what needs to be installed... but you might check and see what's failed: on mine is was both one ujoint, and the flex disc... if it's only the disc, one might/should be able to replace just it with a hockey puck... otherwise, you can try for used ones off eBay and use directly if viable, or rebuild it. But unlike the E36 lower shaft, it's an all or nothing replacement. The ujoints are not replaceable/serviceable. ... but a couple inches: that's got to be scary... my Z was loose, and it tramlined badly... but not as bad as you describe... though very heartened to say that now: with the solid LCABs and the rebuilt column, it's two finger driving and follows exactly where it's pointed, ie, there's hope.

[BenFenner]

There is also this thread which eventually has some good images: http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...ile-but-a-bear
And this one: http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...eering-coupler

But you may have seen these and other related threads already (assuming you checked the manifesto prior).

Vorshlag also provides an alternative. I will try to find that. It replaces the entire lower column section. (Edit: Vorshlag no longer displays the product on their web site.)


Frankly, I like the hockey puck idea the best, especially if the coupling can't be purchased without getting the entire assembly.
The Real OEM link you have looks like you'll be paying for the entire assembly. The cheapest I'm finding it for is $222.19.

[f50nut]

Great info, thank you guys. I remember Gary's thread now that I'm reading it again. Seems like the Z3 unit is in fact different and only comes in one piece, with the bushing riveted on.

I'm not crazy about the solid or very hard alternatives (puck). Seems like they'd put too much stress on the rack. The Vorshlag version is nice in the sense that it telescopes, but appears to be NLA.

Like everything else on this car, I'm going to bite the bullet and replace the piece with a new one. It has 152k miles and counting, and from what I'm told, a previous "encounter" with a curb or road sign. The rack and control arms are new, so I'm sure the rag joint is toast. At 80mph, keeping the car straight is a harrowing experience. White knuckle, two hands on the wheel, checking corners constantly...

Thanks again guys.

[Randy Forbes]

Great info, thank you guys. I remember Gary's thread now that I'm reading it again. Seems like the Z3 unit is in fact different and only comes in one piece, with the bushing riveted on.

I'm not crazy about the solid or very hard alternatives (puck). Seems like they'd put too much stress on the rack. The Vorshlag version is nice in the sense that it telescopes, but appears to be NLA.

Like everything else on this car, I'm going to bite the bullet and replace the piece with a new one. It has 152k miles and counting, and from what I'm told, a previous "encounter" with a curb or road sign. The rack and control arms are new, so I'm sure the rag joint is toast. At 80mph, keeping the car straight is a harrowing experience. White knuckle, two hands on the wheel, checking corners constantly...

Thanks again guys.

That sounds more like an alignment issue; after the rack/control rods were replaced, was the toe IN set correctly? Last time I drove a car that sounds like what you described, it was running about 1/4" toe out (but even "zero" toe can be lively; best compromise is to set it to 1/32" - 1/16" toe IN). For comfortable/relaxed driving__sans white knuckles__you want the pivotal steering components in a loaded state.

Okay, I've worked on over a hundred (>100) of these cars (Z3 from 2.3 to 3.0 & all of the Z3/M versions__except an S-50/B32, for you nit-pickers) and I have yet to come across one that exhibits any symptoms of a worn out rag-joint (mileages from <6k to >200k). Point is, that would not be the first item I'd condemn, before I looked at the rest of the system.

Incidentally, how good are your shocks? Original equipment shocks are generally toast by 40,000 miles. Tires too; brand new tires, with (relatively) tall tread-blocks will also exhibit a lot of squirm, until they wear down a little bit.

[gmushial]

Only a fool questions Randy's wisdom... so check the toe and see what you see. But if it is the column, an easy test is: put the key in the ignition, turn the key to run (so that the steering wheel is now free to rotate, but don't start), and see how much side to side play there is in the steering wheel. If it's the column that's the problem the play will be evident then and there. To have that much play on the freeway at speed - there can be many causes. But to have play at rest, it's either the rack - but your's is new, or the column [with the engine off, you don't have power steering, so the rack should more or less be fixed in position]... but if you apply very little force back and forth to the steering wheel and you have back and forth slop: one of the ujoints or the disc are gone in the lower column (or, in my case, both). ... when I replaced the original column, it was at approx. 170k miles, just as point of reference.

[Randy Forbes]

Only a fool questions Randy's wisdom... so check the toe and see what you see. But if it is the column, an easy test is: put the key in the ignition, turn the key to run (so that the steering wheel is now free to rotate, but don't start), and see how much side to side play there is in the steering wheel. If it's the column that's the problem the play will be evident then and there. To have that much play on the freeway at speed - there can be many causes. But to have play at rest, it's either the rack - but your's is new, or the column [with the engine off, you don't have power steering, so the rack should more or less be fixed in position]... but if you have very little force back and forth in the steering wheel: one of the ujoints or the disc are gone in the lower column (or, in my case, both). ... when I replaced the original column, it was at approx. 170k miles, just as point of reference.

Thtat's a good test (engine off, etc.) wish I had thought of it

[f50nut]

That sounds more like an alignment issue; after the rack/control rods were replaced, was the toe IN set correctly?

It certainly needs an alignment after some of the work I've done to the suspension. I'm not sure if alignment was out of spec after the rack / control arms. Now that I've got wide tires up front it's VERY pronounced.

Incidentally, how good are your shocks? Original equipment shocks are generally toast by 40,000 miles. Tires too; brand new tires, with (relatively) tall tread-blocks will also exhibit a lot of squirm, until they wear down a little bit.

Just replaced with Ground Control coil overs. The passenger front shock was leaking and soaked, so they were due for a change. Tires are brand new, so that could be contributing.

Only a fool questions Randy's wisdom... so check the toe and see what you see. But if it is the column, an easy test is: put the key in the ignition, turn the key to run (so that the steering wheel is now free to rotate, but don't start), and see how much side to side play there is in the steering wheel. If it's the column that's the problem the play will be evident then and there. To have that much play on the freeway at speed - there can be many causes. But to have play at rest, it's either the rack - but your's is new, or the column [with the engine off, you don't have power steering, so the rack should more or less be fixed in position]... but if you apply very little force back and forth to the steering wheel and you have back and forth slop: one of the ujoints or the disc are gone in the lower column (or, in my case, both). ... when I replaced the original column, it was at approx. 170k miles, just as point of reference.

I tested this over the weekend and WOW it's pretty bad. Note the clunk as well. It's gotten significantly worse over the last few weeks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVfFQx08TC4

[robb1887]

I'll see about grabbing a quick clip of mine. I have all new ball joints and "lightly" used GC. My rack and column are original at 98xxx. My steering is smooth and very confident... Bergy even commented on how responsive all of my steering was a Schuh.

[f50nut]

That'll be good to see. How were your tie rods?

[robb1887]

I R&R'd them when I did the rest of the suspension. Car drove fine prior to the majority of it, but it avalanched into "well while I'm here" when I went to my GC's. Only bits that weren't replaced last year were the sway bars, sway bar body mounts, and rear sway bar end links.

I have roughly 4k on the new setup which would include:
GC coils
Meyle HD front arms
Poweflex FCAB
Lemforder(sp?) Tie rod complete assemblies
Meyle HD front sway end links
GC Hybrid plates
AKG poly subframe bushings
Bimmerworld camber/toe rear weld ins

Rack didn't show any leakage/play and my column seems tight when I checked it doing my cooling stuff since I could literally look right at it.

[gmushial]

It certainly needs an alignment after some of the work I've done to the suspension. I'm not sure if alignment was out of spec after the rack / control arms. Now that I've got wide tires up front it's VERY pronounced.



Just replaced with Ground Control coil overs. The passenger front shock was leaking and soaked, so they were due for a change. Tires are brand new, so that could be contributing.



I tested this over the weekend and WOW it's pretty bad. Note the clunk as well. It's gotten significantly worse over the last few weeks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVfFQx08TC4

Yow... man you must have big ones and made of solid brass... I could've never driven a car with steering so loose... but it sounds like at least the flex disc is toast, and likewise probably one of the ujoints... but that doesn't matter: simply slop a new or used one in there and you should be good to go. But I wouldn't drive it until you do - it sounds like that flex disc is being held together by simply a pair of anchor pts (vs all four) and if even one goes, you're going to be toast and anyone else that you take out with you. :-(

[f50nut]

Yeah, car isn't going anywhere until it's fixed. All the parts I need for a full suspension refresh front to back are on order. To hell with it, I'm doing the control arms, tie rods and H&R sway bars too. This car handles worse than my Camaro.

Imagine what it was like to drive when everything loosened up in the Smoky Mountains on my way from NY to GA! And of course the whole drive back.

- - - Updated - - -

Bimmerworld camber/toe rear weld ins

I'm sure you covered this already in your build thread, but how do you like these? Are they prone to loosening up like the others I've seen?

[robb1887]

Yeah, car isn't going anywhere until it's fixed. All the parts I need for a full suspension refresh front to back is on order. To hell with it, I'm doing the control arms, tie rods and H&R sway bars too. This car handles worse than my Camaro.

Imagine what it was like to drive when everything loosened up in the Smoky Mountains on my way from NY to GA! And of course the whole drive back.

I'm sure you covered this already in your build thread, but how do you like these? Are they prone to loosening up like the others I've seen?

I don't want to imagine that.

I haven't had any issue yet but as stated I don't have tons of miles on it and I've had it aligned once a year. I will say that my alignment shop is a BMW specific race shop and the techs there have wrenches cut specifically to adjust and tighten the E30 rear ends (and ours) with these kits installed. I was there when he was doing the most recent one and he had to double wrench the nut off to make the adjustments. He also double wrenched them back on.

[gmushial]

Now that you know that it's the lower column: have you actually looked to see what's failed? Doing the same test with someone else at the wheel and you looking, the horror show should be quite visible.

For anyone else that's reading this thread: since all our Z are getting long in the tooth - if the steering get's sloppy, long long before it gets to this state, find out what's happening and fix it... too easy to become a statistic given the situation. :-( And equally: if you have more than 150k miles on the Z, then start looking for a replacement column, just to have it ready... someone recently said that there were only a few new ones left in the country - either buy up a new one, or find one or two on eBay and squirrel them away, 'cause you're going to need them - these columns are wear items, and do need to be replaced, it's just a question of when, and when it starts to fail, how rapidly it does such.

[f50nut]

Now that you know that it's the lower column: have you actually looked to see what's failed? Doing the same test with someone else at the wheel and you looking, the horror show should be quite visible.

Haven't had a chance just yet. I have a lot of work travel coming up and it'll need an alignment anyway, so I might just have all the work done at Guten Parts. I'll be sure to document the old lower steering shaft.

For anyone else that's reading this thread: since all our Z are getting long in the tooth - if the steering get's sloppy, long long before it gets to this state, find out what's happening and fix it... too easy to become a statistic given the situation. :-( And equally: if you have more than 150k miles on the Z, then start looking for a replacement column, just to have it ready... someone recently said that there were only a few new ones left in the country - either buy up a new one, or find one or two on eBay and squirrel them away, 'cause you're going to need them - these columns are wear items, and do need to be replaced, it's just a question of when, and when it starts to fail, how rapidly it does such.

I'll echo this. I have put just 1500 (mostly highway) miles on the car I bought it in November. Steering seemed fine when I picked it up. I'd estimate it went from good to bad in about 500 miles.

[f50nut]

Update:

I dropped the car at Guten Parts to have all the work done. Unfortunately, I don't have much time to wrench these days, but they do excellent work so I'm happy to have them take care of it.

I haven't seen the steering shaft yet, but I'm told it was shot. The u-joint and bushing were on their way out. Not surprising.

My driver's side sway bar end link was also bent, so we replaced both sides. I was told this car hit a curb or road sign at some point in its life, so this also makes sense.

I decided to change everything under the car. While we're in there, right? Here's a list of everything that's been done so far:

NEW:
OEM control arms
OEM tie rods
OEM wishbones
OEM lower steering shaft
OEM sway bar end links
AKG control arm bushings
AKG rear trailing arm bushings
AKG diff bushing
AKG sub frame bushings
H&R sway bars and bushings
Strong Strut front bar

Also flushed the trans and diff fluid for Amsoil, and sealed the diff with a new gasket and new plugs. I might be missing something. This week, it's getting corner balanced and aligned.

BMW sent two left side wishbones, so Guten installed these red ones they had on the shelf. You can see one of the 18x11" rears at the bottom of the photo



And here are some photos from their instagram:

[f50nut]

Quick update for anyone watching this thread.

All of the tramlining issues have been corrected. Car feels solid and planted. After adding the strong strut and everything else, the front end feels very tight. No more dash or glove box rattles.

I followed the toe recommendations Randy posted and the car tracks straight at speed. I can steer it with two fingers now.

My only gripe after all of this work is that the steering feel is still a bit vague, but I suspect that's due to the level of assistance given by the power steering.

In a past life I drove an f-body. They're notorious for cooking the power steering fluid. We used to solve that by under driving the power steering pump which not only lowered the fluid temps, but added some steering weight and feel. Has anyone tried that on these cars? Curious.

[BimmerBreaker]

None of my Z's have had "vague" feeling steering. Quite direct and responsive tbh. My roadster's rack is on it's way out though, feels a little "sloshy" so I would look at the rack.

If you do replace it, I recommend doing some research on a non-M rack. They are linear and a quicker ratio. I'll be throwing one on my Coupe once I have time.

[f50nut]

Maybe the word I'm looking for is "light"

It feels more direct and connected now, but still way too must assist. I like a firm wheel with a lot of feedback and I can't say I've ever experienced that in one of these cars.

[f50nut]

If you do replace it, I recommend doing some research on a non-M rack. They are linear and a quicker ratio. I'll be throwing one on my Coupe once I have time.

Interesting. Do you know how the ratios compare?

[Randy Forbes]

Interesting. Do you know how the ratios compare?

It's enough of a difference that for the first time you take the car out, you'll be over-driving the corners; I was caught off guard on the first one I'd done!

I suppose you acclimate to it quickly enough, and it's okay if you only have one (1) example__in my own case, if I didn't do the same steering rack mod to all three (3) I would surely wreck at least one of them!

I suppose it's too late to get some detailed pictures of your old steering column? Close-ups of the U-joint and flexible coupling would be interesting to see. I'm also curious as to what would cause yours (and the few others) to have deteriorated, as I just don't come across bad ones, nor complaints of the symptoms.

[Vinci]

Interesting. Do you know how the ratios compare?

I was just looking this up last night to get my slipring set.

Based on my reading, the M rack is 3.2 turns lock-to-lock with a progressive turning rate. Meaning that in the middle of the range, turning is less sensitive to give you better high-speed stability without constant twitch corrections.

The non-M rack is 2.7 turns lock-to-lock and a linear turning rate.

[328 Power 04]

Yes, the Z3M racks are the same as what came on E36 3 Series. A non-M Z3 rack is a very worthy upgrade. I have one on my Coupe and it's great.