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Thread: Anybody here familiar with the piece rate pay?

  1. #1
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    Anybody here familiar with the piece rate pay?

    Apparently, our company/bosses have decided to pay us differently. Now I don't know if this has been implemented for the entire service department or only a batch of us. We are on hourly rate pay while other techs or repair (master) techs are still on flat rate system. We used to work 40 hours a week but I believe it will be 44 hrs from now on due to new schedule & timing. Four days a week only. I get two days off. I don't work on Sundays. The new pay is as follows - (going to keep it simple) if you achieve at least 75% of your clock hours (30 hrs or now 33 hrs) you shall get paid $15. If you do not, then you are at minimum wage $7.25. Keep in mind this means 'wrenching/labor hours' as your clock hours. There have been other changes as well. There are now five teams and each team shall have three techs working that can handle two to more cars at a time. I lead my team apparently and if my team earn at least 10+ hours combined then we can safely assume that we can make that $15/hr over the course of one week. For example, lets say my teams makes 8.70 hrs on Mon, 10.30 hrs on Tue, 9.80 hrs on Wed, 11.20 hrs on Thu, then we add those hours and get 40 hours for week one. This means we have safely made over 75% of our clock time and shall get paid $15/hr. One thing I need to clarify is whether we are still on the hourly rate or is it like the flat rate system. After 30/33 hrs do you get paid $15 hourly or $15 times the amount of hours you earn for the rest of the week?

    The only problem is that as long as there's work then there's potential. Otherwise, not.

    Hence, asking if you any of you have experience in this system and what has been your view/opinion about it?



  2. #2
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    Why do you not ask the boss? Jiffy lube probably has higher wages.
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  3. #3
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    I think this new pay system has been implemented at every car dealership under its name.

    That's the thing I hate about. Why the damn $7.25? They could've bumped it up to $10 but why?



  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by auaq View Post
    I think this new pay system has been implemented at every car dealership under its name.

    That's the thing I hate about. Why the damn $7.25? They could've bumped it up to $10 but why?
    I have never heard of this pay grade. Are you a step graduate or something? What kind of dealership is this? I take it is not a NA owned one. Honestly this sounds borderline illegal but that would depend on what you signed in your contract. Where are all your top techs? Im assuming they are not included in this system. Also a team of 3 techs is supposed to make 40hrs by the end of the week? How many lifts do you have or was that worded wrong? Cause that sounds like day one people at step training program working that have never turned a wrench before or a shop that is slow. And if the shop cant provide the work to do they have no right to claim its your fault.

    Again like I said before its all in teh contract. Depends what you signed. If your in STEP and risk getting stuck with the 50,000+ dollar bill if you don't complete your X years signed employment agreement I understand why you wouldn't want to leave. In that case you basically have to do whatever they say and not get fired unless you have a good lawyer and grounds for a law suit.. But if your not I would find another job. Sounds like a deal they would make for the low level guys and then give them all the grunt work so they have to work harder than jiffy lube techs.
    Last edited by TwistedMetal; 03-31-2015 at 02:53 AM.

  5. #5
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    Sorry for the late response.

    No, this isn't a BMW dealership as I work at a Toyota dealership. Also, this piece rate pay is only for the basic/lubetechs and not for others that do brake jobs, tires, balance and alignment, fluid flushes, etc. and no master techs in this new contract either. They're all on the flat rate system which makes sense. We, the basics, were on hourly pay rate before and obviously were paid full 40 hours for the week. We have a total of five teams each consisting of three technicians/lubetechs but only three different teams working everyday. Each teams have two bays/lifts. Hence, a total of 6 bays for us. To keep it simple we call ourselves 'Dispatch 6' as there are other dispatch (teams) as well. We work 11 hours a day but minus 1 hour for lunch break, so 10 hours basically. On average we do right about 100 +/- cars in a day although usually we are told of 60+ appointments on average for one day. We get a lot of walk-ins too and sometimes 'Dispatch 5' (aka Advanced Techs; mount & balance tires, alignments, brakes, fluids, fuel services, batteries, filters, oil changes, etc.) get backed up pretty badly and we have to help them out. Our jobs are very simple and straight forward. We do oil changes, rotate tires, check tire pressures, check air & cabin filters, perform a long list of multi-point inspection on the vehicle, check the history and recommend any services that may be due per Toyota maintenance program/interval, change wiper blades and that's about it. We do not help 'Dispatch 1, 2, 3 & 4' as they are the master techs and their jobs are different and I'm sure you know what that means.

    Let me explain a little bit about this new pay rate system. Basically, we have been explained or told to turn in at least 10.00 hours per day for each technician in a team. Sounds simple enough but there's more than that unfortunately. For example, Team A brings in a car that has 20k mi on it and gets an oil change and tire rotate as per Toyota's maintenance program. This job pays 0.50 hrs. Sometimes depending on the type of vehicle it can pay up to 0.60 hrs (Toyota Tundra, 4Runner, FJ-Cruiser, Sequoia, Land Cruiser) or 0.70 hrs (only Toyota Tacoma in this case). Here's what happens. Regardless of whoever technician in Team A worked on this car or even if they have worked together, that 0.50 hrs (or 0.60 or 0.70) gets split into three, and that's how tech 1, tech 2, and tech 3 turns in hours for Team A. Similar approach and pay for Team B and Team C and others. Additionally, if any team does an 'up-sell' or sell something like air & cabin filter which usually pays 0.30 hrs together, even that gets split within the team as well. So, lets take a closer at this example below:

    A 2014 Camry came in for a 20k service -> 20k service means 'oil change & tire rotate' -> pays 0.50 hours -> sold 'air & cabin filter' which pays additional 0.30 hours -> totals 0.80 hours for Team A -> which then is divided by three (split) -> paying 'tech 1' an approximate 0.266 ~ 0.27 or rounding it to 0.30 hours.

    Hence, 'technician 1' in Team A has earned or turned in 0.30 hours for the day so far. Similar for technician 2 and technician 3 in Team A. On average, a job/ticket can pay a technician from 0.30 hours to 0.50 to 0.60 hours before the split and at the end of the day if all three technicians add up their total hours and reach that 10 hour target each (or 30 for the entire team), then you are in that safe zone. If this team were to do this on regular basis, on consistent basis then you can safely achieve and exceed that 75% of your clock hours for one week in order to get paid at the rate of $15. If, however, you fail to reach that 75% target (29.99 hours for the week) then you shall get paid at the rate of $7.25. What this means is that each team will have to do at least 70-100 cars a day. How do we accomplish that? According to them, they want us to do four to six (or even eight cars) per hour. They say that it shouldn't take more than 10-15 minutes to get the job done. That's why we've got two bays (so far) for all the teams.

    Now I know what you're thinking after reading all that cause you really want to say, "This is madness!!" And, believe me, yes, it is. We have been working so hard, day by day, literally at the speed of three times that we had never expected or thought of before all this nonsense came up about more than a month ago. Back then when we were on the hourly rate and on different working environment where we used to do 30 - 40 cars mostly on weekdays. On Fridays and Saturdays we would do around 50 - 60 cars. Life was good and easy back then. Now, it's like proper slavery work. Everyday I'm having pain in my shoulders and feet. My fingers hurt a lot now a days. My back too. There are times when we're having to stay back after hours because we're still getting customers coming in or that we or others are backed up and we have to do our jobs and can't let the customers wait any much longer then they already have. Whenever I get back home, I turn the key off and open the door, but I stay in the car for a few moments before I have the energy to get out of the car, close the door, and lock it. At this point, I'm totally exhausted and out of energy. I'm walking very slowly to the front door like an old man when I'm in my late 20's for crying out loud. My body is then completely sore.

    It has been getting worse for the last two weeks or so because we're not getting busy at all lately. I'm hardly producing 5 hours a day let alone near 10 hours. By the end of the week, I'm managing to turn in somewhere in the twenty's. One way you may think that at least I'm not hurting myself from excessive work overload now but at the same time I have to also think about my paycheck at the end of the day (or week) and that I need that 30 hours no matter what. There have been times where there would be no work and I would have to go grab work from dispatch 5 just to make those extra hours that I truly need or just to be on the safe side in case it slows down anytime. Everybody at work are sharing the same experiences and we all are not happy at all. Apparently, they have said or promised us to help us out by compensation. They're giving us a $100 bonus and paying us overtime at the rate of $18. And, they have also paid us $15 despite of not making enough hours. You would now think that's not bad at all and them being generous to us. True. However, I am still not satisfied and here's my reason - regardless of the compensation or making 25 -28 hours, since then I have not seen a paycheck where I made more than what I used to make back then on hourly basis. I have noticed around $50 less than my old paychecks. That is what upsets me the most. Back then I always used to make around $380 to $400 weekly, the extra coming from overtime. With this new pay rate, I've been making somewhere in the region of $320 - $350 only. So ..... the conclusion?

    Double-Triple workload => but Less pay???
    than,
    (previous) Light workload => Good pay??

    Now that we've all seen it how it's been going on lately and how this all works out, we're not happy about it at all. We have never been in this sort of situation before and have never expected this in the beginning. Initially, on paper it all sounded good and we thought that this was some kind of an opportunity for us to make more but we were dead wrong. We had doubts in the beginning too but we were not sure back then. We weren't prepared for this. We have questions that puzzles us like why the damn minimum wage? Surely, a minimum $10 would have worked for us but why $7.25??? That just does not make sense at all. I know no dealerships or even a small independent shop that would pay that minimum wage. This is a dealership for crying out loud. And then there's that stupid 'splitting hours in between the techs' thing. Why????? Again, this does not make sense at all. You're asking us to produce more, to take the advantage of this system because it is possible, it is legit, this system allows us and get paid more when in fact the reality is that we're nowhere making anything because it is absolutely impossible, completely beyond our limits, and human limits that is, introducing own set of rules or how the system works to accomplish the task you've given to us? Are we being treated like robots or human beings???

    If I wanted to I could go back to advanced tech like I did at one point of time but then again there's not a lot of hope for me in that position as well. They've already got too many advanced techs and is slow over there. Kind of hard to make money over there too, so I'm kind of stuck where I am.

    I'm just sick and tired of this job and am now on the lookout for a new one. Till then I'm going to take my time and work slowly and steadily but efficiently. Don't care about them meeting their quota or how backed up we get.



  6. #6
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    Is this a fill in job for the moment or are you trying to develop a career out of it?

    If the hours are split by all members of a team how do they figure out who's the star of the day and who is dogging it? This must be excluded from the flat rate system. And please dont take any offense to this next line I mean none just comes from working a bunch of years on the line myself. But it seems they have thrown you on the scrub line. You can expect to be treated like shit and have odds similiar to the lotto to advance your position. When I started I was throw into that "scrub" position aswell. Although I did get decent jobs I was never allowed to move up or offered a raise or allowed to tackle jobs that I was capable of which I had done before. And I was not looking for the gravy train and a cake walk like the 40-50 year vets have EARNED. However having your future cut short is not ok in my book. I got fed up and packed up and left. My next place of employment let me in the door and left the dog lesh outside. I was allowed to work and find my own place as to what I am capable of and what I am not. (obviously working with the people next too me and even though I didn't have someone standing over my shoulder I am sure they knew what was going on.) Being allowed to prove yourself is key.

    If you do bigger jobs your dont have to walk out with a messed up back everyday. Doing tires sucks, no one likes doing tires if that is all you do might aswell head to mavis.

    Also voice your concerns to your boss politely and respectfully. Ask him where he sees you ending up (as in advancement) or where he would like you to end up. Say do I prove exactly how much of an impact to the team I am? etc.

    If you want some advice there just PM me I will try and give you good advice.

    Good luck. Remember your working for you, not them.

  7. #7
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    Basically, the split thing gives equal hours to the team itself. All three techs are making similar hours with a very slight difference here and there by about 0.10 hours. Each team are independent on their own. It's just a matter of finding work and a lot of it. Apparently, our service director isn't a very friendly person to talk to. He hardly talks a lot and to others except only when he has to. All he says is, "I want to see numbers only." We have three service managers and him being the director. I know one tech went in to talk about a raise and the first thing he said, "What do you want?" in a rude fashion and refused to approve his raise in the end. It's not just us but every body knows he's not a pleasant guy. From what I've heard is that the entire shop techs are not happy ever since he showed up after replacing our old service director who was complete opposite in nature. Our old director actually got promoted to some Chief Operations position or something and time to time we would see him. He was much more friendlier, talkative, and more willing to help. One of our tech used to be a team leader in our dispatch and have tried to talk to our current director about the situation number of times but found no favor for us as he has always replied with the same answer, trying to compensate us. I think we all got the message that he doesn't want to change anything now and shall remain as is.

    I do understand the job position, the nature of this business, and how they want you to work. Certifications and all the ASE's don't really count much but it's your reputation that does a lot. I can do more than our job descriptions but we're not allowed to do so. Not even inspections even though me and few others do. Sometimes I'll do it because a customer was waiting for a long time and I do get paid for it.

    I have worked at another dealership previously and my first manager was a great guy and after learning of my work experiences in the past he was impressed with it and was thinking of promoting me to a line tech. Sadly, he left the dealership and joined another one much closer to his house. In place of him came a new manager who is similar to our current director. In the end, he was treating us like how I'm being treated here presently. In the end, I packed up and left. I'm now in that similar situation again.

    I appreciate your advice and response though, and I hope that I can move on and improve better or find a better job with less burden on my health.



  8. #8
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    I saw this thread a few weeks ago. Just now checking back, and WOW. Get the hell outta that place!

    You seem like a reasonably intelligent guy. You write in proper sentences and paragraphs. Can you do more than just oil changes? Do you have a decent amount of tools? You said you're in your late 20s, are you ready to go flat rate?

    There are more questions I have but, basically, get the hell outta that place!

  9. #9
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    one of my very early shops was a full service gas station where we were expected to drag them off the drives for service. We made a 10% commission on all parts sold and installed but tires and batteries, those were 5%. Worked ok till they decided it was too much for us so they added a little trap like yours did. If we didn't sell and install twice our wages every pay period, we lost the entire commission. I stayed about another 6 months and was the only drive jocky who made commission every week.

    Very lousy way to treat your employees and certainly not the way to get them to work happily. And happy sales crews sell.

    Honestly, you're getting screwed without a kiss. I'd start looking at other shops and start taking ASE tests so you have the certs to flash at the next hiring manager. They won't nesc. make you a better tech but they don't hurt and they do help get jobs. Esp when you get your Master Cert.

    Good luck man, I had fun in the early days but it was a hell of a lot more work (physically) than running the dept or the shop. Plus the money's a lot better with the certs to back your quality work. LEarn Engine Management and Diagnostics, that's where the real cash is. At Benz, a tech who knew the labor codes back and forth could pencil whip a diagnostic ck and 15 min sensor replacement for up to 3.2 if they knew the damn codes inside and out.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhunter29928 View Post
    I saw this thread a few weeks ago. Just now checking back, and WOW. Get the hell outta that place!

    You seem like a reasonably intelligent guy. You write in proper sentences and paragraphs. Can you do more than just oil changes? Do you have a decent amount of tools? You said you're in your late 20s, are you ready to go flat rate?

    There are more questions I have but, basically, get the hell outta that place!
    Yes, I can do more than just oil changes but because of our job priorities, me and others are limited to what we can do, but personally yes a lot more than just that. I've done timing belts, suspension and steering work, tune up, axles, clutch discs, brake jobs including drum brakes, then everything to do with wheels and tires, mounting & balancing and alignments, patching tires, radiator and cooling system, have done quite a bit of engine diagnosis or check engine light stuff, etc. Heck, I've even rebuilt my ZF 5HP19 transmission in my 530i and made a thread about it here on this forum. There are probably a few more lists that I could add but these are some of my past work experiences. Yes, I do have a decent amount of tools or more just enough to get the jobs done. I have previously worked on flat rate even at my first dealership and even have at my current job as well for a short time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Poco Loco View Post
    one of my very early shops was a full service gas station where we were expected to drag them off the drives for service. We made a 10% commission on all parts sold and installed but tires and batteries, those were 5%. Worked ok till they decided it was too much for us so they added a little trap like yours did. If we didn't sell and install twice our wages every pay period, we lost the entire commission. I stayed about another 6 months and was the only drive jocky who made commission every week.

    Very lousy way to treat your employees and certainly not the way to get them to work happily. And happy sales crews sell.

    Honestly, you're getting screwed without a kiss. I'd start looking at other shops and start taking ASE tests so you have the certs to flash at the next hiring manager. They won't nesc. make you a better tech but they don't hurt and they do help get jobs. Esp when you get your Master Cert.

    Good luck man, I had fun in the early days but it was a hell of a lot more work (physically) than running the dept or the shop. Plus the money's a lot better with the certs to back your quality work. LEarn Engine Management and Diagnostics, that's where the real cash is. At Benz, a tech who knew the labor codes back and forth could pencil whip a diagnostic ck and 15 min sensor replacement for up to 3.2 if they knew the damn codes inside and out.
    I am currently searching for new jobs at the moment but I've also talked to one of my managers in private about this situation and the impact it has had upon me personally. I did mentioned a while ago of not going back to the advanced tech (flat rate) but after much thinking now I've decided to reverse that decision. After some talks and discussions, I gave him or offered (I suppose) two options. Either to put me back on flat rate or I quit. My reason being that I don't have to deal with this split thing in this new pay rate system for the lube techs and the fact that flat rate pays higher than lube techs. I could have a slow day today but if I have managed to turn in some hours and multiply that with my flat rate I could definitely be making more than even on my previous hourly pay let alone on this stupid and current piece pay. I do have four ASE's already and you're right that I should go and get more. At least that would give me better chances then.



  11. #11
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    Honestly, in the aftermarket, an ASE Master with tools can basically write their own ticket. There's lots of toolboxes out there but very few Technicians. Get your certs, get your tools and head for greener pastures. Out here it's quite common for an indy to pay 40/10 (40% labor 10% parts) to a Master. That turns into serious coin in a busy shop by the end of the pay period. Plus our cars last forever and there's no rust to deal with. If I had to fight rust, I wouldn't have ever gone into the biz personally. We used to tell the owners of rusty cars to go elsewhere because if we had to do it, they were paying double. They usually understood. I can't even imagine dealing with that every day.

  12. #12
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    Curious...

    What is the labor rate you're pulling 40% from? I've known ASE Masters who weren't worth a damn. I was an ASE Master many moons ago. Never bothered to recert because BMW doesn't care. I could pass the tests again, no problem.

    Side note: My parents retired to Tucson. They love it there. They passive/aggressive-ly want me to move there...

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhunter29928 View Post
    Curious... What is the labor rate you're pulling 40% from? I've known ASE Masters who weren't worth a damn. I was an ASE Master many moons ago. Never bothered to recert because BMW doesn't care. I could pass the tests again, no problem. Side note: My parents retired to Tucson. They love it there. They passive/aggressive-ly want me to move there...
    This is true BMW doesn't give a shit about ASE certification, most places care about prior experiance. Where have you worked and what did you do there. And how long where you there.

    A million people get out of a school and fuck up, crash cars, etc. they want to see you have been working for more than 6 months and havent fucked up.

    ASE and other technical school training doesnt teach you vehicle specific stuff that you would learn going to that brands school. i.e. Mercedes school, bmw school, audi, porsche, etc

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by auaq View Post
    Apparently, our company/bosses have decided to pay us differently. Now I don't know if this has been implemented for the entire service department or only a batch of us. We are on hourly rate pay while other techs or repair (master) techs are still on flat rate system. We used to work 40 hours a week but I believe it will be 44 hrs from now on due to new schedule & timing. Four days a week only. I get two days off. I don't work on Sundays. The new pay is as follows - (going to keep it simple) if you achieve at least 75% of your clock hours (30 hrs or now 33 hrs) you shall get paid $15. If you do not, then you are at minimum wage $7.25. Keep in mind this means 'wrenching/labor hours' as your clock hours. There have been other changes as well. There are now five teams and each team shall have three techs working that can handle two to more cars at a time. I lead my team apparently and if my team earn at least 10+ hours combined then we can safely assume that we can make that $15/hr over the course of one week. For example, lets say my teams makes 8.70 hrs on Mon, 10.30 hrs on Tue, 9.80 hrs on Wed, 11.20 hrs on Thu, then we add those hours and get 40 hours for week one. This means we have safely made over 75% of our clock time and shall get paid $15/hr. One thing I need to clarify is whether we are still on the hourly rate or is it like the flat rate system. After 30/33 hrs do you get paid $15 hourly or $15 times the amount of hours you earn for the rest of the week?

    The only problem is that as long as there's work then there's potential. Otherwise, not.

    Hence, asking if you any of you have experience in this system and what has been your view/opinion about it?

    Damn, that's legalized slavery .

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