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Thread: 98 M Roadster - Estimated Value Help

  1. #1
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    98 M Roadster - Estimated Value Help

    My boss has a 98 M Roadster that he needs/wants to sell as they have two (well..ones a Z3 but...) and are moving and only want to take one with them.
    I'm trying to help him out and having a difficult time coming up with a reasonable expected value for this car.
    This is what he emailed me about it -

    1998 m roadster

    4k Osteen paint job 2 yrs ago.
    Silver on Black
    154k miles
    Clutch at 100k
    Front end rebuild 145k
    New alternator and battery
    Alarm.
    Hk amp with new head unit and speakers
    3.2 engine 145 horses chip can be changed to 165
    Headliner new rear window
    Several other small upgrades.

    Any input would be greatly appreciated.
    And this isnt meant as a for sale thread. I'm just trying to gauge with other Roadster owners what he might expect to realistically ask.

    Thanks....
    Last edited by E39n00b; 01-20-2015 at 10:34 PM.
    “I don’t know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.”


  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by E39n00b View Post
    4k Osteen paint job 2 yrs ago...
    3.2 engine 145 horses chip can be changed to 165...
    Headliner new rear window...
    What is an Osteen paint job?

    "145 horses chip can be changed to 165" ?!?

    Headliner...in a 98'...really?

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    http://www.mroadsterbuyersguide.com/market-statistics

    Credit to jrmartin03 (Jon Martin).
    Last edited by BenFenner; 01-20-2015 at 09:54 PM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bingley View Post
    What is an Osteen paint job?

    "145 horses chip can be changed to 165" ?!?

    Headliner...in a 98'...really?
    Osteens is a local paint shop. Like I said, this is what he emailed ME, so its a local reference.
    Sorry for the confusion.
    The chip? I have no idea, not a M guy myself.
    Headliner? Same thing, I have no idea.

    Oh..and you offered zero help with my question BTW, but thanks for the sarcasm.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by BenFenner View Post
    Thank you very much sir.
    Last edited by E39n00b; 01-20-2015 at 10:08 PM.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by E39n00b View Post
    Oh..and you offered zero help with my question BTW, but thanks for the sarcasm.
    He was asking questions to clarify what the car has to offer a relevant value on the car at hand... you didn't even mention how many miles it has or the color combo, sort of hard to determine a value when omitting that crucial information

    The buyers guide is definitely the best resource though

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    Mileage is in the OP....
    Sorry, but it seemed the "really" comment was a pretty good indication of sarcasm.
    “I don’t know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.”


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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by E39n00b View Post
    Osteens is a local paint shop. Like I said, this is what he emailed ME, so its a local reference.
    Sorry for the confusion.
    The chip? I have no idea, not a M guy myself.
    Headliner? Same thing, I have no idea.

    Oh..and you offered zero help with my question BTW, but thanks for the sarcasm.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Thank you very much sir.
    Mr. Bingley is asking valid questions. He is trying to get unusual claims verified. In 98 there was no inner liner on the softtop. Maybe it was replaced? HP ratings was 240 stock. Not sure why you posted 145. He is trying to help you and isn't sarcastic.

    Terry

    Stuff. I got stuff.

  9. #9
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    Sorry E39, but you come on asking of help, you are lacking critical information, and you throw attitude at the first person asking for clarification?!

    You got a lot of nerve, pal...

  10. #10
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    In all fairness (not being an Z3/Z3M person), I recognized from the italics that you were probably cutting and pasting what the seller had sent you, but to be honest, a number of the things listed *really* need to be more specific for any kind of fair valuation.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by E39n00b View Post
    Oh..and you offered zero help with my question BTW, but thanks for the sarcasm.
    Yaeh, your right--I was being a bit sarcastic--if you were a noob I'd have been much more gentle, but since you have over 80 posts under your belt I figured you know how anal we Bimmerforums members are about the technical details of our cars. 98's did not come with headliners and the later headliners cannot be retrofitted, so I'm questioning the headliner reference. The stated horsepower is 95 shy, and the next statement is that a tune can increase this by 20 horses, which is a bit comical when you get right down to it--on both accounts. The Osteen reference just had me puzzled--I didn't know if it was a paint type I haven't heard of or a color or what (is this like an Earl Sheib paint job?). At any rate, a $4k paint job is not a good thing as it is too little for a quality complete repaint, and too much for anything else except a collision repair.

    There is woefully insufficient information in your OP to truly assess the car's value, including a statement as to why you ask--are you looking to buy it from your boss? Is he looking to sell it here (we have a separate forum for that)?

    What is a 98' M Roadster worth with 154K on the clock in Florida? So much depends on condition and maintenance. We need pictures--detailed pictures. If it was stored outside in Florida for any of its life, is the interior shot? What is going on with the trunk floor/differential mount/subframe, has this been addressed? We need pictures of the inside of the trunk--close ups of the spot welds in particular areas, both inside the trunk and underneath. There is so much to know to give an accurate indication of value. I think we can probably provide a range based on what little we do know:

    154K 98' M Roadster with an aftermarket head unit cobbled to the factory amp and unknown speaker replacements. Some parts replacements, but nowhere near enough listed for the miles. Something was done to the paint 2 years ago somewhere named "Osteen" and it cost $4K, but we don't know exactly what, or whether this was a good or bad thing. Seller is selling because he has two cars--a Z3 and an M Roadster and is moving (he has two Z cars and is keeping the Z3 and selling the M Roadster--what's wrong with this picture?). Nothing said about the subframe.

    Range of possible values assuming it runs and drives is $4K bottom to $10K tops IMHO.

    Sory for the snarkishness in my first response--like I said, if you were a noob I'd have been more gentle.

  12. #12
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    Sir, its a '98, it was 14 years old when he had it repainted. That alone is a good enough reason to repaint a car.
    Around here $4k for a full repaint on a small car with no roof is an average price for good work.
    Theres nothing here to question about the paint. However, it is totally my fault about the Osteen comment.
    Its a local shop thats been around since 86 and is known for their quality paint work. Thats why to "me" he mentioned it in the description.

    I had no idea that HK was stock in this car so I get your comment about the stereo, but have no further info on it at the moment.

    I truly dont understand why not needing two roadsters is an issue for you though. Its a husband and wife, retiring and moving to the Keys and they want to get rid of one of the cars.
    Its a personal choice. The Z is hers and the M is his. I dont get your concern over this.

    Regarding the HP, my first assumption (since I dont really know) is the difference between the two available engines.
    I obviously just assumed he knew what he was talking about.
    Is this correct? - North American-spec model uses the 240 hp (179 kW) S52B32 engine.

    Not that it really matters, but my 80 posts are regarding E39's and n00b in my name should be a good indicator that Im new to bmw myself.
    I've asked a lot of questions on this forum more than anything and things have gone well so far.
    “I don’t know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.”


  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by E39n00b View Post
    Sir, its a '98, it was 14 years old when he had it repainted. That alone is a good enough reason to repaint a car.
    Inherently, by itself, it is not. Paint condition is one tool (in a toolbox) that can be used as a guide to how the car was treated during those past 15 years. If the car was garaged, washed, and waxed on a regular basis, 14 year old paint will still be quite good (see my 17 year-old M3). The fact that it had gotten bad enough to warrant a respray can be used as an indicator (though not a guarantee) that it was a) kept outside in the sun (then you end up with other UV related issues to take into account, or possible b) driven in an area with lots of sand/salt (basically being sandblasted over time). Again not deal breakers, or even necessarily bad things, but very important when it comes to valuing a car. Of course, that also assumes that everything is on the up and up, and it wasn't resprayed to hide door dings or worse (not accusing, but as a buyer that has to be a concern).

    Quote Originally Posted by E39n00b View Post
    I had no idea that HK was stock in this car so I get your comment about the stereo, but have no further info on it at the moment.
    For me I'd also want to know if it was an OEM stock replacement, or aftermarket. It also mentioned new speakers.. Are we talking OEM, Bavarian Soundworks, etc? Really what I'd be looking for was whether the speakers retained the OEM connectors, or if they were spliced in.

    Quote Originally Posted by E39n00b View Post
    I truly dont understand why not needing two roadsters is an issue for you though. Its a husband and wife, retiring and moving to the Keys and they want to get rid of one of the cars. Its a personal choice. The Z is hers and the M is his. I dont get your concern over this.
    I understand your explanation, but for the target market the idea of selling an M and keeping a regular Z is....... unusual (to put it politely). I think most of us would move the vanilla one before the M car. Even knowing that it's a his/hers thing.....still makes me wonder if something else is going on. That's not personal, just a "that's so far removed from my way of thinking, something must be up."


    Quote Originally Posted by E39n00b View Post
    Regarding the HP, my first assumption (since I dont really know) is the difference between the two available engines.
    I obviously just assumed he knew what he was talking about. Is this correct? - North American-spec model uses the 240 hp (179 kW) S52B32 engine.
    I'll let someone else answer that definitively, but yeah they had the S52 for that year. IIRC I thought the regular Z had two engine options, which makes me wonder if he was starting to mix them up.
    Last edited by jholder; 01-21-2015 at 08:12 AM.

  14. #14
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    Thank you for the detailed reply.
    This was the last reply I received from him -

    The computer chip is set for sale in US. It can be flashed to euro standard and it adds 20-25hp and removes the 6500rpm limiter.
    headliners were not stock but you could get them in later years for this car. I found one and installed it. Rear window I replaced 3 weeks ago.
    The Stereo has an Alpine head (cd player, USB, BT) 3yrs old. Speakers I replaced are after market except for the 2 subs which are original. Amp is original Stereo is nice but in that car it will never be a concert hall.......
    I also forgot to mention I replaced all 6 ignition coils and all 4 O2 sensors at 145k.
    I have the original boot cover for when the top is down, The OEM wind screen for between the seats, and a cover.
    “I don’t know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.”


  15. #15
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    For the horsepower figures, I think a safe bet is that the owner fat-fingered the job and meant "245" and "265" respectively, not "145" and "165".

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    Surprisingly, this seller does seem to have a handle of what he's talking about. The aftermarket tunes/ECUs do remove the 6500rpm limiter in 1st gear; the headliner is a nice perk, as is the new rear window. Replaced speakers is good since most factory ones have disintegrated by now, however he is correct in that it will never be a "concert hall" or even sound as good as today's premium car audio systems.
    Cyrus Mistry

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    Sounds like an $8500 car tops.

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    No answer to the OP's questions, but I'd rather have a low mileage meticulously maintained 6 cyl non M Z3 than a worked over 150K mile M. That's just me though.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by amancuso View Post
    No answer to the OP's questions, but I'd rather have a low mileage meticulously maintained 6 cyl non M Z3 than a worked over 150K mile M. That's just me though.
    My thoughts exactly--indicating it's probably a worked over 150K+ M and not a meticulously maintained specimen.

  20. #20
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    In my area - $4k pays for a top quality, but sub-concourse level paint job for a same-color respray. That doesn't sound like a bad thing to me at all. You guys would probably freak out if you saw the level of work I've had done for just $2k...
    Quote Originally Posted by BeachFreak View Post
    You got a lot of nerve, pal...

    Quote Originally Posted by E39n00b View Post
    The computer chip is set for sale in US. It can be flashed to euro standard
    There is no "euro standard" tune for the S52. There is no euro tune AT ALL for these engines. They were only available in the US.

    Most of what he is saying at least seems in the realm of reason but the occasional red flag tells me hes not a hardcore enthusiast, which is fine. I'd say it is a $7-9k car depending on a few various factors. I'd list at $10k and take anything north of $8k.

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  21. #21
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    There is something funky with it if the standard Z3 is the keeper. There are to many questions that can only be answered with good pictures, is she still on Roadstars?

    Quote Originally Posted by BimmerBreaker View Post
    I'd say it is a $7-9k car depending on a few various factors. I'd list at $10k and take anything north of $8k.
    I concur: with the info at hand
    List it about 10k and take anything north of 7.5k

    Remember great pictures sell cars! text listings sell nothing.

    also once you post pics and your for sale advertizement send the link to your ad to http://www.mroadsterbuyersguide.com/

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    Lmao

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