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Thread: Brakes

  1. #1
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    Brakes

    I don't feel like the brakes on my M3 have enough stopping power or "bite" to them. Is this something that new racing pads will fix or do I need a whole new braking system? And if new pads will work, which ones would you guys recommend

  2. #2
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    Unless you race, racing pads, which take time to heat to work well, will make things worse.

    If this is a new problem, you have a problem with your braking system, and you need to start checking the system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marvinstockman View Post
    Unless you race, racing pads, which take time to heat to work well, will make things worse. If this is a new problem, you have a problem with your braking system, and you need to start checking the system.
    This ^^^^^^

    If you want a really nice setup for everyday driving then get the kit I have. I can't say enough good things about it. My complaint was exactly like yours. My original brakes didn't feel like they were biting. All that changed with my Powerstop brakes. RockAuto has the best price on them.

    http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...this-on-brakes
    Last edited by flyfishvt; 01-04-2015 at 04:59 PM.

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  5. #5
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    It's not a new problem, it's just I finally think it's time to do something about it. Why would race pads not help?

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    Think of it this way. Track pads need to operate at much higher temps than street pads. That means they don't operate well at the lower temps you find in every day driving. When you drive around town you're on and off the brakes quickly. They don't heat up very much and they don't heat up very fast. On the track you are constantly on the brakes. So they get very hot and they stay there. Put track pads in there and they will constantly be operating way below the temp range they are designed for. They won't heat up so they won't grip. You will have worse performance than you have now
    Last edited by flyfishvt; 01-04-2015 at 05:31 PM.

  7. #7
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    OEM brake pads are the best performance for the street. The. Best.

    E36 brakes suck compared to a fixed caliper like a EVO or STi. Unless you get a BBK you're stuck with this crappy feel. Obviously this is assuming everything is functioning properly, your brake fluid is fresh, blah blah blah
    Last edited by ThreeD; 01-04-2015 at 07:01 PM.
    -Chris

  8. #8
    RRSperry's Avatar
    RRSperry is offline Senior Moment Member BMW E36 M3 Expert
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThreeD View Post
    OEM brake pads are the best performance for the street. The. Best.

    E36 brakes suck compared to a fixed caliper like a EVO or STi. Unless you get a BBK you're stuck with this crappy feel. Obviously this is assuming everything is functioning properly, your brake fluid is fresh, blah blah blah

    That is complete and utter bull crap... It's all about pad compounds. The E36 has great brakes, provided you have the correct pads and they are properly bed in. Now if you have Hawk pads, they feel like crap with no bite. But that's the pads... (yeah, all Hawk pads feel like blocks of wood.)
    No matter where you go, there you are...

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by RRSperry View Post
    That is complete and utter bull crap... It's all about pad compounds. The E36 has great brakes, provided you have the correct pads and they are properly bed in. Now if you have Hawk pads, they feel like crap with no bite. But that's the pads... (yeah, all Hawk pads feel like blocks of wood.)
    Ya....ok.

    I've tried anything from PFC 06 to OE pads in many E36s and my measuring stick is different than yours. In my opinion, the brake feel and innate flex in the sliding caliper setup is noticeable and significantly worse than a fixed caliper setup.
    -Chris

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThreeD View Post
    Ya....ok.

    I've tried anything from PFC 06 to OE pads in many E36s and my measuring stick is different than yours. In my opinion, the brake feel and innate flex in the sliding caliper setup is noticeable and significantly worse than a fixed caliper setup.
    If the measuring stick is entirely pedal feel, then yes, the stock brakes are just OK with good pads.

    If the measuring stick is how well they actually work, the stock brakes are excellent.

    Fixed calipers are nice, but they are not magical. The other reason why the E36 brake feel is not the best is quite simply that the brakes are heavily boosted to limit pedal effort. With a smaller booster, brake feel would improve dramatically (at the cost of increased pedal effort). Drive, say, our 993TT, and you'll find that a great deal of the improvement in brake feel is that they did not boost the brakes very heavily.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by nick325xit 5spd View Post
    If the measuring stick is entirely pedal feel, then yes, the stock brakes are just OK with good pads.

    If the measuring stick is how well they actually work, the stock brakes are excellent.

    Fixed calipers are nice, but they are not magical. The other reason why the E36 brake feel is not the best is quite simply that the brakes are heavily boosted to limit pedal effort. With a smaller booster, brake feel would improve dramatically (at the cost of increased pedal effort). Drive, say, our 993TT, and you'll find that a great deal of the improvement in brake feel is that they did not boost the brakes very heavily.
    That's a good way to break it down totally agree!
    -Chris

  12. #12
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    Sounds like they just need some maintenance. When was the last time the fluid was changed? Are the wheel bearings in good shape? You could be getting some knockback. Rotor condition? I've found that the pedal feel deteriorates somewhat as the pads wear and the caliper pistons are extended further allowing a bit more flexing. New pads of any kind will fix that. Ceramic pads, (Hawks, in my experience) don't have nearly the bite that OEM style pads do, and I wouldn't recommend them to anybody whose priority is anything other than low dust. Stock M3 brakes are excellent for the street when in good condition. I put Stoptech calipers on my track car because they reduce the frequency of maintenance. They really don't stop much better than fresh stock calipers with proper (for the application) pads.

    I've had good results with Stoptech Street Performance pads in my street cars. Cheap and effective. Newer race pad compounds work much better at cold temps than they used to, but they are often extremely hard on rotors when used at street temps. Don't go there. There are some compounds out there that will literally destroy a set of rotors in a matter of days.
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  13. #13
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    Maybe I haven't really paid attention at alot of nicer setups, I did drive an EVO8 MR once and the brakes were definitely good, but I didn't think they were like another league above my M3. I mean the whole car was better and newer so kind of unfair. Still I think the stock M3 brakes are great.

    Speaking of the booster, do people change the booster to improve the feel?
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by m3bs View Post
    Sounds like they just need some maintenance. When was the last time the fluid was changed? Are the wheel bearings in good shape? You could be getting some knockback. Rotor condition? I've found that the pedal feel deteriorates somewhat as the pads wear and the caliper pistons are extended further allowing a bit more flexing. New pads of any kind will fix that. Ceramic pads, (Hawks, in my experience) don't have nearly the bite that OEM style pads do, and I wouldn't recommend them to anybody whose priority is anything other than low dust. Stock M3 brakes are excellent for the street when in good condition. I put Stoptech calipers on my track car because they reduce the frequency of maintenance. They really don't stop much better than fresh stock calipers with proper (for the application) pads.

    I've had good results with Stoptech Street Performance pads in my street cars. Cheap and effective. Newer race pad compounds work much better at cold temps than they used to, but they are often extremely hard on rotors when used at street temps. Don't go there. There are some compounds out there that will literally destroy a set of rotors in a matter of days.
    My experience with the Stoptech pads is pretty negative. Poor feel, and extremely sticky dust. (Less dust, but it requires more effort to remove.)

    Honestly, my inexpensive pad of choice these days is Textar or Jurid (OEM).
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  15. #15
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    Hawk pads don't dust? The hp+ dusted like no ones business.

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    What are you doing with the car? How long has it been since you changed the pads or done brake maintenance? If you've never been on the track, you do not need or want race pads, period, and you don't need bigger brakes. FYI, stopping power and "bite" are 2 different things. Ideal brake feel is different for everyone. Make sure your brakes are up to date with maintenance, and try some nice name-brand high performance (non race, non track) street pads. It may take 2-3 sets to find what you're looking for, especially if you can't describe exactly what that is. My next set of street-pads will be PFC Z-rated.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by dohcdoh View Post
    Hawk pads don't dust? The hp+ dusted like no ones business.
    Hawk Ceramics, not HPS or HP+.
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  18. #18
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    Ahh ok.

  19. #19
    RRSperry's Avatar
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    All Hawk pads feel like wood... Good stopping power, just no bite. (I've tried the HP, HP+, HP ceramic...) all of them the same... Street pad of choice when I had stock brakes was the Porterfield R4S?
    No matter where you go, there you are...

  20. #20
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    You didn't like the bite of the HP+? Interesting. The HPS and the HP Ceramic are crap, but the HP+ is one of my favorite street pads. Aside from the squealing.
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  21. #21
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    All I know is that my 95 M has rediculous stopping power and the rotors and pads are on their way out. Definitely check over the system something is off.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by nick325xit 5spd View Post
    You didn't like the bite of the HP+? Interesting. The HPS and the HP Ceramic are crap, but the HP+ is one of my favorite street pads. Aside from the squealing.
    I love the hp+. The squeal lets everyone know I have a race car. (They probably think who's pos is making that noise though). They eat rotors but who cares.

  23. #23
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    joenationwide is offline Makes Cars Dance BMW E36 M3 Expert
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    Axxis Ultimates aka PBR ULT pads are what you need!

    These pads have excellent bite and can handle pretty much any aggressive street braking you throw at them.
    They don't dust nearly as bad as Hawk HP+s, and have almost as much bite.
    I've even tracked on Axxis ULTs in a pinch and I was impressed how long they lasted with 80% threshold braking.

    I can't imagine you would be unhappy with them.

    For reference: I have 2 e36 m3s. One has OEM brake system with PBR pads, and the other has Porsche 996 Calipers with pagid or other street pads.
    The OEM brakes with Axxis Ultimates has much more braking torque, and stops much quicker.

  24. #24
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    There's something else that works, too: not driving like a jackass and ensuring a proper following distance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xen0blade View Post
    There's something else that works, too: not driving like a jackass and ensuring a proper following distance.
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