Bigger Engine vs. Classic Look

[Good Measure]

Hey guys, looking to own my first BMW pretty soon. I have a question I think is best asked here.

I decided on the 8-series for obvious reasons, the rarity, looks, power, and luxury of this model drew me in pretty quickly. I decided early on as well that I was much more interested in the 850s than the 840s, and more interested in the later model years as well. If I could afford a CSi I would go for it, but that's not a possibility at the moment.

After much searching and researching, I found two 850Ci's for sale within driving distance. One is a 1996, and houses a more powerful engine (5.4L), and is white with a non-traditional grey interior. The other is a 1993, classic black on black, with a weaker, but still quite powerful 5.0L.

From what I've read, the 8-series really came into its own when the additional power was added, and became much, much more enjoyable as a luxury powerhouse when larger engines came into the mix.

My question, do I sacrifice the classic stylings for a more enjoyable driving experience? How big a difference is there between the engines when driving?

I've been told the white color is a selling point and might be slightly more rare, can anyone confirm? Also, assuming each vehicle has about the same mileage, would the larger engine wear any faster or require even more maintenance than the already finicky V12?

EDIT: Mispoke on the model year of the second vehicle.

Thanks all,
-Sam

[TxGR8White]

They can't both be 1996's...

The 5.0 liter V12 was offered from 1990-1993, and for 1994 it went to the 5.4 liter V12.
The 5.0 is connected to a 4-speed auto transmission, whereas the 5.4 is connected to a 5-speed auto transmission.

White cars are certainly not a "common" color (that's probably why there are 2 of them parked at my house.)
The wear and maintenance concerns regarding the 5.0 and the 5.4 are the same - larger engine doesn't wear faster than the smaller one, also doesn't need any extra maintenance.

The 5.0 can be made "quicker" just with some WOKKE chips and a 3.91 rear diff. The 5.4 is a little more difficult to "tune" (you have to get the ECU's flashed).

I am currently doing a 5.4 liter conversion for my 1993 (out with the 5.0, in with the 5.4) - best of all worlds....

[Good Measure]

They can't both be 1996's...

My mistake, you're right. The model year for the latter is a 1993.

Thanks for your feedback. I think I'm leaning towards the 5.4 at this point, I'm not nearly handy enough to make any technical modifications to the vehicle if I did opt for the 5.0.

[TedBobo]

Also, assuming each vehicle has about the same mileage, would the larger engine wear any faster or require even more maintenance than the already finicky V12?

Thanks all,
-Sam

Finicky V12....where did you hear that?

[Good Measure]

Finicky V12....where did you hear that?

I have an uncle who owned a v12 Benz. M120 build. Man that engine just about ruined him.
Constant repairs and replacement. He was scared to drive it at some points I'm sure.

I suppose I shouldn't pass judgement considering it was a different make entirely, but first impressions die hard.

[ByMW]

The V-12 isn't a problem...
It's the electronics that will destroy your soul.

(I prefer the original manual transmission configuration, so can't comment on the later cars. But still, they look great in white!)
Best of luck!

[TedBobo]

I have an uncle who owned a v12 Benz. M120 build. Man that engine just about ruined him.
Constant repairs and replacement. He was scared to drive it at some points I'm sure.

I suppose I shouldn't pass judgement considering it was a different make entirely, but first impressions die hard.

OK, understood. My '93 is at 154k with only regular maintenance (plugs, wires, belts, water pumps, radiator, intake manifold gaskets & the upper pan gasket)....humm, on 2nd thought maybe you're on to something. Just kidding! But I've never been stranded...yet!

[72tpik5]

The M73 is more rare, powerful, and comes with a better transmission. No brainer really.

[tvjake2]

The M73 is more rare, powerful, and comes with a better transmission. No brainer really.

+1 Unless you want the better 8 Series and get the 840Ci.

[Good Measure]

+1 Unless you want the better 8 Series and get the 840Ci.

Haha! Can I hear your argument?
I'm interested in learning anything I can about the 8 series. Even if it's not my model in particular.
You may be able to convince me.

Thanks again for all the feedback guys. I'm happy I'll be entering into this community!

[91e34M5]

Hello Sam,
If you find one, maybe we can meet up at the Nashville Cars and Coffee in the Spring. We had three 8's in attendance on one of the weekends last year. I live just West of you in Dickson County.
Murray

[m6bigdog]

Jump all over the 96, the best buy at any price unless it is a beater!! I say that because if it wasn't maintained it could be the most expensive car you have ever owned even if you get it for FREE!!!
Best engine & trans package in the E31..
Rarest with only 363 imported into the US during the last 3 years of US production - 95, 96 & 97.
Easy to upgrade with just a 3.23:1 LSD and it is as quick as any E31 except the custom dual turbo cars.
The 840 is nice but it is anemic with 4 cylinders and 60 ft-lbs of torque short of what you get in a 96-850....
Once you purchase the 96 you will not want for another E31.
I have one of the other 850's 1997, White with Gray interior...

[72tpik5]

Absolutely . If you are afraid of a V12, a V8 is a great alternative. :-)

[yamoda]

If I was buying an 8 now, I'd get an M73, second choice would be a very late M62.

[barry8108]

I would not buy any 840 past 95. I am going through the timing chain guide adventure with my 00 740, and it is a ticking time bomb. The small power increase is not worth the maint. of that adventure.

[Chamberlin]

A '97 M73 powered 850CiA was my first BMW as well. I've since have had two E92 M3's (2008, 2009), and a 2006 Z4 M Coupe. Believe it or not, I have been 're-bitten' by the 8 Series bug. I've been looking at a couple of super nice late 850s, one with 42K and the other with 36K. The sellers are expecting around $30,000 for these two...not sure they'll get it, but there are plenty of guys willing to pay near the $24k-$26k mark for a low mileage M73 car. I bought mine with about 86K miles for $20K, sold it back to the original owner 2 years later for $18K. Now I'm faced with the same exact dilema as you. I'd like to keep the purchase price around $16K. I *really* want a 6 speed, but if I got a great deal on a M73 car, I'd go back to a '96-'97 model year car. There's been a few CSi's floating around too, but I doubt they're going to be in my price range (ever). I hate the thought of buying a 1991 model year car with typically 80K-120K miles on it, but to get a classic V12 with a 6 speed (without a Ferrari badge up front), is pretty damn cool.

I also found a '91 6 speed recently, with some nice add-ons, but the asking price is just too high $26K, especially with 100K+ miles. What should we expect these days as far as actual selling prices? I've checked eBay over pretty well, and it seems the average selling price is about $9000, combining 840s and 850s...
How much more scared should we be of the older M70 engine vs. the M73 cars? More electrical gremlins with the later cars? I was actually scared shitless of the 5HP30 transmission or torque converter in my last car (the previous owner had some issues, but I never experienced the dreaded trans fail safe code). Another reason to go 6 speed right???

[m6bigdog]

A '97 M73 powered 850CiA was my first BMW as well. ...
How much more scared should we be of the older M70 engine vs. the M73 cars?
...

Imported into the US:
840's = 2450
850/M70/4-speed = 3347
850/M70/6-speed = 847
850/M73/5=speed = 363
850/S70/6-speed = 225

Real rare!! given the M73 & S70 combined are less #'s than the M70/6-speed.
So IMHO, if you want one and find a low mileage M73 I would just buy it and let the fact there will be fewer low mileage examples available next year - make it a deal at almost any price if it is a well maintained car!!

[yamoda]

I would not buy any 840 past 95. I am going through the timing chain guide adventure with my 00 740, and it is a ticking time bomb. The small power increase is not worth the maint. of that adventure.

There are thousands of these engines out there running OK, it's a much nicer engine to drive than the M60 so I would buy that, do some preventative maintenance and enjoy the better car. It's only a couple of days work in exchange for years of enjoyment.

[B10 BITURBO]

I have an uncle who owned a v12 Benz. M120 build. Man that engine just about ruined him.
Constant repairs and replacement. He was scared to drive it at some points I'm sure.

I suppose I shouldn't pass judgement considering it was a different make entirely, but first impressions die hard.

The M120 Mercedes V12 engine is one of the best engine Mercedes benz have EVER MADE,,, it is a fact.. but in that case it is also possible that the electronic is not good and could cause negative feedback..

it is the same with M70... i just adore the engine,, engineering wise it is built to last .. the exhaust design in the cylinder head is imo the worst ever ,, and i guess that the guys had been at october fest the day before the pressed enter,, for go

[Chamberlin]

Imported into the US:
840's = 2450
850/M70/4-speed = 3347
850/M70/6-speed = 847
850/M73/5=speed = 363
850/S70/6-speed = 225

Real rare!! given the M73 & S70 combined are less #'s than the M70/6-speed.
So IMHO, if you want one and find a low mileage M73 I would just buy it and let the fact there will be fewer low mileage examples available next year - make it a deal at almost any price if it is a well maintained car!!

Hey Bigdog! "Scared" not "Rare"!!! Hahaha, I think you misread my post... being a previous 8 series owner, I have long committed the USA production numbers to memory! But thanks for the recap!

My dilema is being more 'scared' to own an M70 car versus a M73. I've already had a '97 CiA, but never had any issues with it other than a cracked radiator housing, and the rumor from the previous owner that the transmission was on the way out (which scared me away from the car). I am much less worried about a 6 speed transmission (I know they can have their own issues but...), since I can't afford a CSi, that leaves me wondering the overall maintenance exposure I might have from a well maintained '91 M70 6 speed versus a well kept '97 m73 5 speed auto. Both have their own quirks, but I would think for a fairly competent home mechanic, the M70 6 speed would be a better choice overall. Plus, I *really* want a manual V12! Money wise though, a $20,000+ pill is easier to swallow on a low mileage M73 car than a 1991 anything with 100K miles...

[8eights]

1991's and early V12's will one day be a majority of M73's.

[tvjake2]

I would not buy any 840 past 95. I am going through the timing chain guide adventure with my 00 740, and it is a ticking time bomb. The small power increase is not worth the maint. of that adventure.

To each their own...but IMHO this is a pretty silly statement.

[B10 BITURBO]

1991's and early V12's will one day be a majority of M73's.

I dont really understand what you mean ?

[BeachFreak]

I still plan on owning a v-12 someday.... you guys keep em running so I have more to choose from when the time comes, K? Thanks

[m6bigdog]

Hey Bigdog! "Scared" not "Rare"!!! Hahaha, I think you misread my post... being a previous 8 series owner, I have long committed the USA production numbers to memory! But thanks for the recap!

My dilema is being more 'scared' to own an M70 car versus a M73. I've already had a '97 CiA, but never had any issues with it other than a cracked radiator housing, and the rumor from the previous owner that the transmission was on the way out (which scared me away from the car). I am much less worried about a 6 speed transmission (I know they can have their own issues but...), since I can't afford a CSi, that leaves me wondering the overall maintenance exposure I might have from a well maintained '91 M70 6 speed versus a well kept '97 m73 5 speed auto. Both have their own quirks, but I would think for a fairly competent home mechanic, the M70 6 speed would be a better choice overall. Plus, I *really* want a manual V12! Money wise though, a $20,000+ pill is easier to swallow on a low mileage M73 car than a 1991 anything with 100K miles...

Chamberlin, You are right, Scared? So, why would you own a 1990's BMW if it scares you!!
If you have yet to master the electrical troubleshooting these cars can be a money pit! and if you have they still have the maintenance costs of a $100k car. That is why you will find many European cars in the salvage yard that look cosmetically fine.

BMW like most other German cars of the mid 90's to current production are over designed, overly complicated with an excesses of electronic controllers.
Fun to drive but also expensive to maintain!!
The Early E31 vs late model are almost identical with only a few upgrade mods that IMHO improve performance and reliability since it is essentially the second generation E31 production with OBDII.
However if the E31 scares you, you won't like the newer European cars that make the E31's look like an 80's vintage vehicle, i.e. now it's direct injection, valve-tronic, Vanos'ed, turbo'ed, Buss controlled everything to diagnose.