Warranty Coverage Problem

[SnydeZ]

Hello all, I currently have a small problem involving the warranty on my e92 and thought this might be the best place to get some assistance.

To give some background, I own a '12 e92 328 currently under warranty. The vehicle has been flawless thus far, nothing to gripe about at all. Recently, probably the past two months or so, I noticed condensation on the inside of my headlights. Not just the fog that usually burns off, but droplets of moisture. Every time it would snow (Ohio) or heavy rain, I would get the condensation. It would start with the fog and eventually turn in to droplets. This was occurring in both headlights.

I did some research and found it's either due to bad seals at the time of manufacture or an auto accident that cracked the housing. Being that I've never been in an accident, I figure it to be the seals.

So I take it in to my dealer for routine maintenance and a couple cosmetic interior repairs, and I mention the headlight issue. I actually experienced this with my Honda a few years ago, and the headlight assemblies were replaced at one of my oil changes without hesitation. I didn't figure this to be a big deal at all with BMW.

The service manager I'm dealing with is very helpful and professional, and he advised he would look at the issue. After a couple days, I get a call explaining BMW could not replicate the problem via running the car through the car wash, and thus would need photos of the problem. Lucky enough, while I was researching the issue on the forums, I read about owners snapping photos of the condensation so I already had them prepared and sent them straight to my service manager. About a day later I get another call explaining that BMW is denying the warranty repair because they couldn't replicate the problem in the car wash. With that being said, I discussed my frustration with the situation and my service manager continuously advised it was a problem and it was clear from the photos there is an issue with the headlights. The only caveat is that someone in the BMW warranty department is shooting it down because the problem cannot be replicated in the car wash, despite the photos. The service manager has been very helpful, and and advised he would contact the area service rep to try to get the warranty approved, but definitely made it sound like it was a long shot.

My question is, what do I do? I live about an hour from my dealer so driving to them in a downpour is unrealistic. I have photos documented from three separate incidents over a one month period showing serious water condensation and fogging in the headlight. I have a service manager that is very helpful, but seems as if his hands are tied in this situation.

Do any of you have a contact for warranty complaints or suggestion on who to call or email from here? I have a good feeling the news is going to be more of the same when BMW gives me a call back so I want to be prepared if possible.

Thank you in advance for any information at all!

[BimmerBreaker]

Maybe see if you can find a way to reproduce the problem yourself at home, then take the car to the dealer and reproduce it for them?

Pretty tough spot. Otherwise I'd talk to the service advisor on a very human level and tell him if he believes you that the problem is there, then he should make a real effort to fix the problem instead of deflecting blame to BMW. You spent a lot of money on the car and it should not have problems like that. But from their perspective how do they know you just aren't wanting new parts before the car is out of warranty?

[Critter7r]

have you had any bulbs replaced recently?

FWIW, the service manager is snowing you. If there is a defect, BMW covers it. We've covered dozens of headlight assemblies over the years for doing exactly what you're complaining about. Either the access cover for replacing the bulb is loose, or the headlight assembly is defective. Either way, they should be able to make your problem go away. At least, so long as the vehicle is still within the 4/50 warranty, and not out into CPO because of mileage, hasn't had any bulbs replaced recently and hasn't been in an accident. With proof of the problem in your photos, this should be a no-brainer.

[SnydeZ]

Maybe see if you can find a way to reproduce the problem yourself at home, then take the car to the dealer and reproduce it for them?

Pretty tough spot. Otherwise I'd talk to the service advisor on a very human level and tell him if he believes you that the problem is there, then he should make a real effort to fix the problem instead of deflecting blame to BMW. You spent a lot of money on the car and it should not have problems like that. But from their perspective how do they know you just aren't wanting new parts before the car is out of warranty?

I definitely agree. They run a business, and they should have checks and balances to protect them from people taking advantage. The problem is, I had a very real conversation with the advisor, and we're still at this point. I think if a customer comes to you with a real problem, has photographs of the issue, it should be addressed. It would be one thing if I just complained about some phantom problem and didn't have anything at all to back it up, but the reason I took the photos over time, and during different weather was to avoid this exact issue..

I didn't expect this from BMW, it really leaves a sour taste, especially when I'm still in the 4/50. I just wish there was someone "I" could contact rather than asking BMW to keep pushing the issue up the ladder.

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have you had any bulbs replaced recently?

FWIW, the service manager is snowing you. If there is a defect, BMW covers it. We've covered dozens of headlight assemblies over the years for doing exactly what you're complaining about. Either the access cover for replacing the bulb is loose, or the headlight assembly is defective. Either way, they should be able to make your problem go away. At least, so long as the vehicle is still within the 4/50 warranty, and not out into CPO because of mileage, hasn't had any bulbs replaced recently and hasn't been in an accident. With proof of the problem in your photos, this should be a no-brainer.

The bulbs are original.. never had them replaced. No accident. Nothing. I thought along the lines of exactly what you're saying: especially since I had a similar issue with my Honda and they swapped it out without issue.

I understand the problem is not being able to replicate the symptom, but unless I'm there in a rainstorm driving around for a half hour I don't think it's going to replicate...thus why I took the photos. From what I understand, with the little bit of research I can come up with, is it's not just a water or moisture leak problem, but the humidity and temperature also affect the symptom. The days I notice it the most are cold and rainy days. I'm guessing this is why the warm indoor car wash can't replicate it.

I do feel like I have a candid service advisor, but each time I speak with him I get the impression he is being declined from above.

[Critter7r]

Dealers don't generally check with BMW prior to performing a warranty repair. There are guidelines that we're given to follow, and we follow them. By and large, BMW doesn't really question what we replace under warranty. If they did pose the question to BMW, the response from the warranty team would be to tell us to determine whether there is a defect and if there is, to replace the defective part. They don't generally give us "yes" or "no" answers to our questions about "is this covered?". Because if it's a defect, it's covered. Especially with this particular situation, BMW Warranties would understand that even if they didn't get the lamp to leak during their testing (if they even tested it), that it's a situational defect and they wouldn't bounce the claim.

[SnydeZ]

Dealers don't generally check with BMW prior to performing a warranty repair. There are guidelines that we're given to follow, and we follow them. By and large, BMW doesn't really question what we replace under warranty. If they did pose the question to BMW, the response from the warranty team would be to tell us to determine whether there is a defect and if there is, to replace the defective part. They don't generally give us "yes" or "no" answers to our questions about "is this covered?". Because if it's a defect, it's covered. Especially with this particular situation, BMW Warranties would understand that even if they didn't get the lamp to leak during their testing (if they even tested it), that it's a situational defect and they wouldn't bounce the claim.

Thanks for the information. It's sounding more and more like I'm just getting the run around from the dealer then.. which is pretty disappointing. We buy these cars because we love driving and we love the manufacturer. When situations like this arise it really turns me off. I know it's a small problem in the grand scheme, but why hassle the customer? What's the benefit?

Anyway, I appreciate the insight, and I guess I'll look for an 800 number or someone to contact outside of the dealer in an attempt to address this. Now just where to find the right one...

[ross1]

Sounds like you have a legitimate beef. Your service manger isn't doing you, his store or BMW's reputation any good. Find another dealer and leave this guy. Once resolved write a letter to BMWNA and the first dealer's principal.
Beats me why some service writers behave like this. Stupid? Ornery?
Good luck
OH, the reflectors ought to show signs of condensation if this has been going on for a while, this ought to be enough to make your case.

[mhunter29928]

Thanks for the information. It's sounding more and more like I'm just getting the run around from the dealer then.. which is pretty disappointing. We buy these cars because we love driving and we love the manufacturer. When situations like this arise it really turns me off. I know it's a small problem in the grand scheme, but why hassle the customer? What's the benefit?

Anyway, I appreciate the insight, and I guess I'll look for an 800 number or someone to contact outside of the dealer in an attempt to address this. Now just where to find the right one...

Reading through this thread, the whole time I'm thinking "call the 800 number" (I don't have it handy, but you should be able to find it, no problem). You have documented proof. I don't understand why this dealer is giving you a hard time.

[downeaster1]

From a BMW technician standpoint, we get paid to replace parts. Most of us are looking for a part to throw at the car, unless its something stupid (like someone coming in with an immaculate E90 M3 with 400 miles and is complaining of a slight rattle at 40mph, but only on a Tuesday). E92 headlights are a walk in the part to replace. If the customer tells my service advisor that he's seen pictures of water getting in there, i'm not even remotely going to question it. that car is getting two new headlights. being a forum troller, and a technician, I feel as though I know what these common problems are which makes it way easier.

[MarcoZandrini]

Contact the regional bmw office and report the dealer's lack of action. If that doesn't work, write a letter to the ceo of BMW NA. Mark the envelope "strictly private."

[SnydeZ]

*UPDATE*

Well it has been a little over a week now and still no concrete news. My car is sitting in BMW's garage and I have their loaner. I received my third call from the service advisor late last night stating he has "forwarded the problem on to BMW, and the BMW area service rep is considering it for review". He is now stating it looks like my hood is a little off kilter and BMW may be concerned there has been body work done. Needless to say I am furious now. This thing hasn't had body work done. He advised they checked the lights and they aren't replacement assemblies, they are original to the vehicle, so a subpar replacement job isn't the issue. This baffles me that they are even suggesting this. It's totally disrespectful to treat a customer that way. I understand this is the internet, and there are three sides to every story, but wow...this is unbelievable. If the car were involved in an accident of such magnitude that the hood was off kilter, the lights would have some sign of damage, which they don't. Or, if they were damaged in an accident, they would have been replaced, which BMW said isn't the issue either. Of course this logic is likely not going to be considered by BMW.

I am convinced this is all about my mileage. I still have two plus years left on the warranty, but only a little over 1k left on mileage, and I am CERTAIN they are avoiding repair due to the warranty nearing an end.

I'm at the point where I'm realizing someone in this line of decision making is screwing with me. I don't understand how there is even a discussion over a $2,000 fix. It's not even for customer satisfaction purposes, I have pictures of these leaks!

From what I'm reading from you guys, it sounds like BMW wouldn't have an issue at all fixing it from the manufacturer side, it sounds like that decision is mainly up to the people in house at my dealership. I asked my service advisor last night what "forwarded to the area service rep" meant; if it meant the same thing as me contacting BMW NA myself with a complaint, and he said it would essentially be the same thing because that is who BMW NA would contact to rectify the problem.

After last night, I'm sure I'll have an answer soon. This entire process has turned me off of BMW. Not because I don't love the product, but because of where I'm located, this dealership is one of my only options. I've had amazing service with my wife's Honda and I paid a third of what I paid for my e92. I think I'll write a letter regardless of the outcome. Do any of you have any experience with that? Does BMW actually consider customer complaints of this nature in letter form?

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Well I got an answer. Short and not so sweet:

They are declining the warranty. The reasoning is they could not duplicate the problem at the dealership, despite having photos.

I called BMW NA, spent 45mins on the phone with them, and received the same answer. The associate at BMW NA went as far to say it is written in their policy that they cannot make a repair they cannot duplicate at the dealer.

Short version, I'm screwed. So really, it's not a 4/50, it's a 4/High 40ish.

[caboy]

I just discovered the same problem last week on my 2011 335i coupe which is under warranty, both headlights had some condensation in them after I parked my car outside in the rain for 2 days. took some photos and brought it to the dealer, I got a loaner car and left.. got a call from my SA 2 days ago saying that they are ordering 2 NEW headlights, as I am writing this the headlights are being replaced. didn't had any hard time at all.. just explained the problem to my SA and emailed the pictures to him, hope everything will end good for you. will update once I get my car back.

[maxicalmf26]

actually i think that they are the basic problems.it become important to talk about any thing else make bmw e 30 more comfort and then talk about the warranty .. ok lets take it

Top Ten classified websites

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actually i think that they are the basic problems.it become important to talk about any thing else make bmw e 30 more comfort and then talk about the warranty .. ok lets take it

Top Ten classified websites

[montaillou]

...they cannot make a repair they cannot duplicate at the dealer.

Short version, I'm screwed. So really, it's not a 4/50, it's a 4/High 40ish.

I wouldn't blame them that they won't replace something they can't replicate. And don't cry much, OP, as your warranty still has some time on it, it's very likely the problem will get worse at least to the point where they will replace them.

[ross1]

I would still prevail upon BMW. politely.
There MUST be some way of documenting this when it occurs. Or has it not re-occurred? It would be most unreasonable of BMW to insist that just because their dealer cannot duplicate the problem it doesn't exist.
I am certain BMW people participate here, maybe one with authority will offer assistance.
Good luck

[SnydeZ]

I wouldn't blame them that they won't replace something they can't replicate. And don't cry much, OP, as your warranty still has some time on it, it's very likely the problem will get worse at least to the point where they will replace them.

**FINAL UPDATE**

Both headlights replaced this past week due to the ongoing condensation issues. It wasn't quite as easy as some have experienced, but a replacement nonetheless.

As far as BMW not replacing something they can't replicate: that's not accurate. They just did. It's a small sample size, as it was only my experience, but I spoke with the service manager who said they will replace a part if a customer has it diligently documented. He said he often urges customers to photograph or record problems, that way if they can't be replicated by BMW, they can be replaced per their policy. I'm not sure where this information was a month ago, but I'll take it!

[Critter7r]

Just for the record for anyone interested ... BMW NA does NOT deny warranty claims pre-emptively. So for the OP, the service manager originally telling you that BMW NA was denying the claim because the BMW dealer couldn't replicate the problem simply was a lie. BMW dealers have rules given to them by BMW NA that govern warranty repairs. Either it's defective or it isn't defective. BMW NA doesn't make that determination until AFTER the BMW dealer performs the repair.

This service manager was passing the buck to BMW NA .