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Thread: S52 Z3M vs. 3.0 Z3

  1. #1
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    S52 Z3M vs. 3.0 Z3

    Curious if anyone has an idea of the major differences in performance between the two cars. I saw a 3.0 the other day and it was gorgeous and well put together. Reason i'm also asking is that my car is up for sale and I know i'd eventually like to get back into one when the time is right. That got me thinking though since the 3.0 seems to have just as much power as the S52M so maybe i'd enjoy it just as much. But of course it wouldn't ever be an M.

    I did a quick look online and only major issue is that most 3.0s have the wood interior and manuals. Could be hard to find a nice sporty one with a manual transmission.

    Anyone here make the switch or have a 3.0 but wish they had the S52? or vice versa...
    My Rides: 2007 911 Turbo - 2000 Cherokee
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  2. #2
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    I would not be surprised if the M54B30 had more "area under the curve" than the S52. However, that's but one part of the equation. My wife has been in a 3.0 coupe for several years and loves it. Except.... she got a chance to drive my recently acquired S52 M coupe. The first question she asked was "what will it take to make my car feel like that?"

    So now I'm putting M suspension under her car.


    /.randy

  3. #3
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    The engine performance is very close, for a daily driver the M54 is a great car, it has most of the S52 power with a lot of the S54 smooth delivery. I think the S52 has a little more up-top power but the M54 has more torque.

    If your willing to do a little swapping of control arms, suspension bits, etc, you can end up with an M54-powered car sitting on M components that performs very closely to an S52. Interiors though, are easy to swap. So I wouldn't be dissuaded by things like wood on the console. Heck if it bothers you that much paint it while you wait for good bits you actually want. Buy a car with the best drivetrain you can find.

    I have an S52 Coupe but if it didn't fall right into my lap, I'd have been completely fine in an M54. I've driven an M54 Coupe and liked it very much.

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  4. #4
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    It is very easy to make changes in the Z3 suspension that improve the handling so the 3.0 may be a good choice for you. The Z3 3.0 is also about 170 lbs. lighter than the S52 M so that may improve the handling feel for you.

    Interior parts can be easily changed and even some of the front exterior can be changed, it won't be an M, but it would be your car set the way you like and something to enjoy.

  5. #5
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    In daily driving the 3.0 feels quicker IMO. Light throttle pedal and lots of low end torque lead to a peppy-feeling car that will spin its tires willingly. In an all-out sprint I think the S52 would have a small edge, though.

  6. #6
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    When I bought my Coupe, I had narrowed down my search to two S52 MCoupes and one M54 3.0 Coupe...my sig should tell the rest of the story. I had driven plenty of S52's, and even S54's (although I wasn't going to pay the asking price for used S54's), but after I drove the M54 the decision was easy. I knew which mods I would be making, and I've never regretted it! So, what I ended up with is a lighter, more technologically advanced, rarer, smoother, much faster Coupe than the S52.

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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by danomite View Post
    When I bought my Coupe, I had narrowed down my search to two S52 MCoupes and one M54 3.0 Coupe...my sig should tell the rest of the story. I had driven plenty of S52's, and even S54's (although I wasn't going to pay the asking price for used S54's), but after I drove the M54 the decision was easy. I knew which mods I would be making, and I've never regretted it! So, what I ended up with is a lighter, more technologically advanced, rarer, smoother, much faster Coupe than the S52.
    Okay, I'm with you on most of what you said, but I'm curious about the highlighted section. What about a 3.0 is more technically advanced?

    Marty
    Last edited by MartyBtoo; 10-15-2014 at 06:25 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartyBtoo View Post
    What about a 3.0 is more technically advanced?
    The list is long in both mechanical and engine management. BMW even prepared a Training Reference Book on the subject. (M54engMS43/ST036/6/2000)

    Before you refer to that, if you are really interested you might review: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M52#S52 and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M54

  9. #9
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    Well I have had the 02' 3.0i coupe since 2002 with 6k miles on it, it currently has 131K + over 250 track day's, it also sports a TCK DA suspension, which uses the front sway bar mount to strut instead of control arm mounting as stock.
    I also have a 99M3 - S52 since 56K miles currently at 130K with about 70 track days now.

    I love my coupe, the biggest issues is the delay in the Throttle By Wire (supposedly there is actually a fix-tune out now to address this)
    The S52 is cable throttle

    Is there a difference in response - Absolutely hands down the cabled s52 rocks.
    I have never dyno's either but I would say from driving the S52 torque curve is better.

    Is the Z more technologically advanced ummm No.. except the throttle by wire
    Which is more fun to drive? the Z hands down.

    Upgrade wise...when I need a bit more power after running all the numbers a SC kit was the best route for me (I used the AA kit stage 1) put on at 94K miles.
    It has seen over 70 track days being doubled teamed since my wife drove it also.

    2 cents
    bill

  10. #10
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    I would say that DSC, torsen LSD, and heck OBC too are technological advancements. Opinions may vary...

  11. #11
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    M54b30 + schrick cams + headers and nice tune is a nice beast. But you will be able to extract more power from the s52.

    Suspension: Bilstein Sports, GC Coilover conversion, IE Subframe Bushings, IE RTABs, M roadster sways, M roadster front control arms, M roadster Front calipers/hubs.
    Engine/Driveline: M54B30 intake Manifold, Dinan CAI, ZHP Cams, Headers, Underdrive pulleys, Conforti Software, 3.46 diff.

  12. #12
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    The dyno charts I have looked at for S52 vs M54 are really close. The S52 a bit more peak torque, but the M54 more broad.

    Is not the M54 dual vanos? Also I think it has the DISA variable intake length contraption?

    Another major advantage is weight, with the M54 being an aluminum block, if I'm not mistaken.

    I think the stock diff ratios are shorter with the S52, so that may help even things out some more in terms of acceleration.

    Some people strongly prefer the cable throttle of the S52 over the drive by wire M54 setup.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scarceas View Post
    Is not the M54 dual vanos? Also I think it has the DISA variable intake length contraption?

    Another major advantage is weight, with the M54 being an aluminum block, if I'm not mistaken.
    Yes, yes, and yes. These are all factors as to why the M54 is more advanced, it is a next-generation engine vs. the M52, its really E36 vs. E46, the engines are very different. DISA and Dual VANOS makes for more torque over the M52 series of engines, but the top-end power is still similar to the M52 and S52 still has an edge.

    The M54 is certainly not "much faster" as some posters have suggested. Around town, the M54 will feel faster in most driving conditions but S52 is still faster.

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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by BimmerBreaker View Post
    The M54 is certainly not "much faster" as some posters have suggested.
    Where did anyone say that?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by BimmerBreaker View Post
    The M54 is certainly not "much faster" as some posters have suggested. Around town, the M54 will feel faster in most driving conditions but S52 is still faster.
    This is probably very, very true. Given the way most of us use are Z3s the driver's feel gives the edge to the M54. It also brings clarity to the reason why even though I own an S52 M-Roadster, I still very much enjoy driving my M54, 2.5i. Not more than the M. In fact, in addition to those two Z3s, I have 2 1.9 DASC and a 1.9 n/a.

    Which one is the most fun? The one I'm driving!

  16. #16
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    The problem with the Torsen diff is if one wheel get light it will spin, like at the uphill at NHMS or the toe at WGI. I had to go with a clutch style.
    Also the stock ratio is 3.07
    The DSC is fair I think, better then nothing, good for street, but not overly advanced compared to the new stuff.

    I looked into the cams + tune etc. and it was real close to like 3K or more installed for what was maybe 25~40 HP
    the SC kit got me like 60 something I think it was
    Cost/Benefit... SC kit won at 4k invested and a weekend

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by BimmerBreaker View Post
    The M54 is certainly not "much faster" as some posters have suggested. Around town, the M54 will feel faster in most driving conditions but S52 is still faster.
    ...if I'm the poster you're referring to, I can assure you that my car is quite a bit faster than an S52. For the price of an S52, I got an M54, SC'd it, got a great tune, and added a few other performance bits all for the price of a stock S5X. Not to mention, the M54 gets better gas mileage (even with the SC).

    Honestly, there are a million different pros and cons to either car/engine platform. It's for the OP to decide which one meets the criteria he's set.

    "You don't win silver....you lose gold."

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by danomite View Post
    ...if I'm the poster you're referring to, I can assure you that my car is quite a bit faster than an S52. For the price of an S52, I got an M54, SC'd it, got a great tune, and added a few other performance bits all for the price of a stock S5X. Not to mention, the M54 gets better gas mileage (even with the SC).
    yep, mods matter. What do you want to bet that on a roadster (the OPs topic), the total cost of a roadster with your mods turn out to be well higher than the cost of a nice S54 roadster.

    For the price of a 3.0, I purchased an S52 M. It will be a long time coming, but one day I'd like to install an intercooled twinscrew on it. Because I'd like to do it right, it won't be cheap, but I'll bet it will be fun and somewhat quicker than I need.

    Quote Originally Posted by danomite View Post
    Honestly, there are a million different pros and cons to either car/engine platform. It's for the OP to decide which one meets the criteria he's set.
    Now that is the important thought.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by danomite View Post
    ...if I'm the poster you're referring to, I can assure you that my car is quite a bit faster than an S52. For the price of an S52, I got an M54, SC'd it, got a great tune, and added a few other performance bits all for the price of a stock S5X. Not to mention, the M54 gets better gas mileage (even with the SC).
    Yup, a supercharged M54 will beat a stock S52. That should be a no-brainer. But stock for stock, the S52 will win... there is really no point comparing a modified M54 to a stock S52
    Quote Originally Posted by Mystikal View Post
    Where did anyone say that?
    Quote Originally Posted by danomite View Post
    ... after I drove the M54 the decision was easy. ... So, what I ended up with is a lighter, more technologically advanced, rarer, smoother, much faster Coupe than the S52.
    I'm not trying to bash the M54 at all. Like I said had the Kyalami Coupe not fallen into my lap I'd be happily in an M54 3.0 Coupe (and I'd probably be driving it instead of looking at it broken in my garage...). But I wouldn't convince myself its faster than the S52 stock for stock

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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by BimmerBreaker View Post
    But I wouldn't convince myself its faster than the S52 stock for stock
    No one claimed that.

  21. #21
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    All these comparisons with M54 vs S52 has me smiling, having just bought a M54 3.0 coupe. Does it being Hellrot II add any HP ? How about sunroof delete... thats got to weigh 50 lbs or so, right? J/K, but the tune to get rid of ride by wire lag has me interested. Rode a buddys RBW bike and I hated that aspect of it.
    Suck, bang, blow - that's what it's all about.

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  22. #22
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    At Der Shuh last spring, I had to work pretty hard to keep up with both Eric's and Ed's 3.0 Coupes on our "spirited" drive. My stock S52 may have been slightly bested by either of these cars. I'm not sure how stock they are, but they are both good drivers. Dianna's/Randy's 3.0 with the automatic (and two people!) was not nearly as strong as the silver and red Coupes previously mentioned.
    Lets say I have a lot of respect for the M54 Z3s. Even with limited seat time, I have no complaints with my project 2.8 Coupe. Dual Vanos and DISA intake make the 2.8tu perform suprisingly well, with the 3.0 even better.
    -Donny

  23. #23
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    As someone who has a maxed out non FI 3.0, I can say from a straight line it keeps pretty close to S52's BUT if I had it all over to do again, I'd definitely buy an S52 or S54. Available modifications for M versions are much greater.
    Now in E92 M3 ZCP -- Absolute beast

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve f View Post
    yep, mods matter. What do you want to bet that on a roadster (the OPs topic), the total cost of a roadster with your mods turn out to be well higher than the cost of a nice S54 roadster..
    Conjecture.

    "You don't win silver....you lose gold."

  25. #25
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    Your mastery of the obvious is noted.
    Last edited by steve f; 10-17-2014 at 01:46 AM.

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