S62 sleeved and turbocharged

[prom3]

Why is a sleeved S62 not preferred for turbocharging?
Have not seen any sleeved turbo S62s lately. There were a couple of turbo S62s from europe.

Sleeved 4.8L vs 3.2L S50. % 50 more displacement but still not preferred. Does that mean sleeved S62s dont last?

[futureroadracer]

Why is a sleeved S62 not preferred for turbocharging? Have not seen any sleeved turbo S62s lately. There were a couple of turbo S62s from europe. Sleeved 4.8L vs 3.2L S50. % 50 more displacement but still not preferred. Does that mean sleeved S62s dont last?

Cost

[autowa]

2 extra cams, 2 head gaskets instead of 1 . 2 extra pistons and rods another side of the exhaust system to fab up. Just cots more as mentioned. the m/s52 are proven to be quite reliable with plenty of parts and tunes to make great power safely and cheaper.if money was not object it might have more interest?!

[litemup]

I believe the S62 block's structural rigidity begins to be an issue at high torque levels.

[geargrinder]

Doh clicked and hoped for awesome build thread.

Iz disappoint.

Cost

times skamillionz.

The M/S62 stock internals are good for 500-600wheel, not much problem. After that - Internals choice and availability for M/S62 is paleweaksauce "oh yeah theres this one guy who once did..." kinda stuff but the few guys who do really big builds on those blocks get great results. Not really an engineering as much as a cost/convenience thing.

ballard540 is in midst of a big blower build targeting 900whp. Doable i think but its some serious money. He had some sweet gucci main bearing caps made recently... Build going slowly though, as they do.

If your question is turbos vs blowers on the M/S62 - its just a stone cold bitch to fit turbos into the E39/E38 platforms. Nearly impossible. Many have tried, and many have failed, grasshopper.

[HamsM5]

Doh clicked and hoped for awesome build thread.

Iz disappoint.



times skamillionz.

The M/S62 stock internals are good for 500-600wheel, not much problem. After that - Internals choice and availability for M/S62 is paleweaksauce "oh yeah theres this one guy who once did..." kinda stuff but the few guys who do really big builds on those blocks get great results. Not really an engineering as much as a cost/convenience thing.

ballard540 is in midst of a big blower build targeting 900whp. Doable i think but its some serious money. He had some sweet gucci main bearing caps made recently... Build going slowly though, as they do.

If your question is turbos vs blowers on the M/S62 - its just a stone cold bitch to fit turbos into the E39/E38 platforms. Nearly impossible. Many have tried, and many have failed, grasshopper.

What about a turbo setup on an E39 530i? Is that a difficult fit?

Chris

[pbonsalb]

No. In fact, Technique Tuning has done turbo kits for the M54 3.0L motor. But the M54 has some limitatons for high boost use. It is an aluminum block and the head bolts are known to pull out from just an overheat. If you want to build one of those motors for boost, contact PEI330i since he seems to have a lot of experience modding the M54.

The older single vanos 97-98 528i with M52 would be much easier and cheaper to turbo. Same engine as in the E36 that so many of us have turbocharged. Always easier and cheaper to do what has been done a lot than pioneer something new.

[HamsM5]

That's pretty good info. I was just curious. I ran across a really well preserved black on black '03 530i 6spd. It had around 40k miles and I could have picked it up for about 8k.

[Tristo]

That's pretty good info. I was just curious. I ran across a really well preserved black on black '03 530i 6spd. It had around 40k miles and I could have picked it up for about 8k.

Hush you. You have too many pretty toys already. We are all envious. If you throw in a sick e39 then that's just automotive gluttony. I'll call Brad and Morgan.

[BigM62]

Why is a sleeved S62 not preferred for turbocharging?
Have not seen any sleeved turbo S62s lately. There were a couple of turbo S62s from europe.

Sleeved 4.8L vs 3.2L S50. % 50 more displacement but still not preferred. Does that mean sleeved S62s dont last?

I put a 4.8L sleeved M62 engine in my E34 540i with S62 crankshaft

[GG///M3]

Hush you. You have too many pretty toys already. We are all envious. If you throw in a sick e39 then that's just automotive gluttony. I'll call Brad and Morgan.

Correct, but still no skateboard.

[IR M5]

Awhile back I got a quote on a built S62 from VAC, Darton Sleeves, CP pistons, stock cams etc. The quote came out to just over 20k..I think these engines are awesome in stock form but when it comes to modifying them heavily it's just not worth it. There are better, more cost efficient options out there.

[futureroadracer]

I put a 4.8L sleeved M62 engine in my E34 540i with S62 crankshaft

Yea, and what's you HP to $ ratio?

[pbonsalb]

Or torque to $ ratio.

[litemup]

Awhile back I got a quote on a built S62 from VAC, Darton Sleeves, CP pistons, stock cams etc. The quote came out to just over 20k..I think these engines are awesome in stock form but when it comes to modifying them heavily it's just not worth it. There are better, more cost efficient options out there.

Seen several guys on the interweb spend that kinda money on a S62 and then no results afterwards. I seriously think those blocks distort as torque output goes higher and higher.

[GT35Rm3]

Just some food for thought; the ecu on the e39 m5 is the same ecu as the e46 m3. MikeR and NickG have the ability to readily tune the motor for a turbo set up. I have continually toyed with the idea of turbo charging one. We even had my old m5 running on 60lb injectors with the plans for turbo charging it. Plans changed and I ended up selling the car. Could you imagine how awesome 550 whp and 550 wtq on the stock motor in that chassis would be!? No need to build the motor!!

[geargrinder]

Just some food for thought; the ecu on the e39 m5 is the same ecu as the e46 m3. MikeR and NickG have the ability to readily tune the motor for a turbo set up. I have continually toyed with the idea of turbo charging one. We even had my old m5 running on 60lb injectors with the plans for turbo charging it. Plans changed and I ended up selling the car. Could you imagine how awesome 550 whp and 550 wtq on the stock motor in that chassis would be!? No need to build the motor!!

well. there's dozens of blown S62's running around for sure putting down 550whp or more (like 600whp w/ the RMS charge cooler) though maybe not that torque.

for the bazillionth time the packaging is the problem. it's virtually impossible to fit turbos into that chassis, as proven by the fact that everybody has the idea but then nobody does it. every few months yet another new guy shows up and says we are all idiots and it can be done and he's a pro who's built lots of cars and swaps etc. etc. and he'll show everybody that we are all retards and then by 6-9mos the guy has disappeared and the project is dead. fully agreed the MSS52/MSS54 ECU is well sorted and a number of good tuners can handle it. but its the car packaging that's just miserable. headers barely fit into that engine bay let alone room for snails.

that's why people throw blowers in the M62/S62. fits easily. bolt-on w/ stock internals, no CR change needed. adds over 100whp to either motor. blocks are fine to handle it. want to go further you need charge cooling.

[dburt86]

ive been toying with the idea of turbo'ing my 6 speed e38 more and more. Its tight, but not that tight.

My biggest hangup is giving up my awesome daily. I just cant do it.

[geargrinder]

Its tight, but not that tight.

Yes it is. Maybe an E38 has 3 c-hairs more space than an E39 but it ain't much.

But hey. Please prove us wrong. You got plenty of company in the "I am SURE IT CAN BE DONE" camp but zero success stories AFAIK. There was one E39 car w/ a single turbo setup plunked down where they usually put the M62 superchargers but seems like the car was never finished... just like all the other stalled/failed projects...

[dburt86]

the way i have imagined it was getting rid of the mechanical fan/shroud, using the stock manifolds with a crossover pipe and have the turbo up by the passenger headlight.

[GT35Rm3]

well. there's dozens of blown S62's running around for sure putting down 550whp or more (like 600whp w/ the RMS charge cooler) though maybe not that torque.

for the bazillionth time the packaging is the problem. it's virtually impossible to fit turbos into that chassis, as proven by the fact that everybody has the idea but then nobody does it. every few months yet another new guy shows up and says we are all idiots and it can be done and he's a pro who's built lots of cars and swaps etc. etc. and he'll show everybody that we are all retards and then by 6-9mos the guy has disappeared and the project is dead. fully agreed the MSS52/MSS54 ECU is well sorted and a number of good tuners can handle it. but its the car packaging that's just miserable. headers barely fit into that engine bay let alone room for snails.

that's why people throw blowers in the M62/S62. fits easily. bolt-on w/ stock internals, no CR change needed. adds over 100whp to either motor. blocks are fine to handle it. want to go further you need charge cooling.

I agree the packaging is difficult; difficult, but not impossible. A single turbo set up has been done before and would be the most practical route. The MAIN issue is a single turbo set up running off the factory ecu would be impossible for any of your "good tuners" to tune. You would have to use someone that has the capability to manipulate code to allow the ecu to run off a single O2 sensor bank, i.e. Nick. They had to do this exact same thing with the E46 M3 kit. That is why no one else has a E46 m3 kit that runs off the factory ecu. As with most projects, its not the packaging that is the main problem, its the tuning.

[BimmerBreaker]

every few months yet another new guy shows up and says we are all idiots and it can be done and he's a pro who's built lots of cars and swaps etc.

Yup Like clockwork...

Saw "S62" while browsing the main forum page and had to take a peek. Was hoping for a cool build thread... bit disappointed. As touched on earlier, its not cost efficient or easy to build an S62. Theres a guy turbocharging his M5 on M5board right now. But hes swapping out his S62 and putting an S52 in it's place...

S62s seem to take to supercharging pretty well, with a few 500-600, and some 600+ examples being documented. But turbocharging as GearGrinder said is not really feasible simply due to packaging restraints. The most recent E39 turbo thread involved a guy who was going to nonchalantly relocate the shock towers, no big deal

You COULD maybe fit a turbo in the engine bay (or pair) if you shaved essentially everything else out of them and did top-mounts right behind the headlights, but you'd be spending a lot on a custom manifold and then you'd be doing lots of other custom work for intercooler and exhaust piping and you'd quickly realize that even with them physically fitted, fitting all the supporting components come with their own problems and it just becomes a huge headache and a major hassle. An "axelback" turbo setup may be possible but I don't think its been attempted because the amount of turbo lag with such systems would ruin the characteristics of the S62 engine.

[geargrinder]

I agree the packaging is difficult; difficult, but not impossible. A single turbo set up has been done before and would be the most practical route. The MAIN issue is a single turbo set up running off the factory ecu would be impossible for any of your "good tuners" to tune. You would have to use someone that has the capability to manipulate code to allow the ecu to run off a single O2 sensor bank, i.e. Nick. They had to do this exact same thing with the E46 M3 kit. That is why no one else has a E46 m3 kit that runs off the factory ecu. As with most projects, its not the packaging that is the main problem, its the tuning.

Single turbo is a somewhat different story but I'll have to take your word for any that were really finished. The last one I saw threads for was a disaster when they started to fire it up and appeared to have been abandoned.

No need to flame the "good tuners" reference. NickG would have been one of the top of the list when I said "good tuners". Totally agree if you're talking about single turbo you have those issues w/ banks.

I'll also agree that the tuning is the big problem, AND the projects I have seen that got past packaging and the failed were stumbling on management so sure... however the packaging is a big one on these motors. To disregard it is just silly. You're talking about doing a suboptimal ugly flowing single turbo setup purely because the packaging is crap for either a twin, or a 'good' single setup (aka where you can have decent runner lengths within each bank, and anything vaguely symmetrical between the banks).

Packaging is a huge hassle. Tuning is too. The fact tuning is hard doesn't make the near-impossible packaging suddenly easier.

I really just need a "block" function in VB that applies to M/S62 turbo threads but I keep wanting to see somebody actually pull something off... but it's always the same.. a bunch of
"IT CAN BE DONE I AM SURE OF IT BECUZ I AM RACECARBILDR" stuff that goes nowhere.

- - - Updated - - -

Saw "S62" while browsing the main forum page and had to take a peek. Was hoping for a cool build thread...

LOL Graham - note almost word for word my first post...

[dburt86]

If O2 banking is one of the biggest concerns, then why not just run 2 02's in the single exhaust. Let the DME trim both banks based off the 1 exhaust outlet. There are Euro m62/s62's that dont have rear o2's.

I agree it is tuning that is the biggest hangup. Only the guys that have cracked these ECU's could really tell us if its possible. As far as the packaging, theres no doubt it can be done. Might get a little ugly, but it can be done.

[GT35Rm3]

Give Mike and nick a car, a check, and some time and they can do it. When I was up in jersey working with them, we had my e39 m5 running on 60lb injectors with the plans of developing a turbo kit. We decided that we should focus on the newer plateforms, so I sold the m5 and bought and e92 m3. I am still toying with the idea of a turbo m5 in the future...