Is this the correct clutch line

[jatleson]

Clutch Line.jpg

Is this the correct clutch line for a 99 MZ3? I thought some hard line was needed along with the hose.

[PDP M]

That is the correct line. There is a small hard line between that in your pic and the slave, but unless you strip the fittings, you don't need to replace it.

[Randy Forbes]

If the inside diameter (orifice) of one (1) end is smaller than the other, then it would be a correct OE replacement.

If you wanted to delete the "clutch delay valve" (eliminate the restriction) and do away with the short hard-line and associated bracket, then this is the hose I use as an alternative. I believe it's the 3.0 rdstr hose (used without its separate CDV).

[Mr Bingley]

What do people think about using a stainless steel line instead of rubber, and how hard is it to replace? I recall there is some issue with bleeding, or am I confused?

[Randy Forbes]

What do people think about using a stainless steel line instead of rubber, and how hard is it to replace? I recall there is some issue with bleeding, or am I confused?

There used to be a problem with getting one that fit (correct fittings at both ends) but I think that's pretty much resolved. No real reason not to, though some Coupe owners felt there was an increase in noise transmitted to the interior (you know how those Coupe fanatics are : OH WAIT...)...

[Wertles]

I had a SS line for my car but it had the fitting issues Randy described so I ordered the 3.0 line that Randy showed above. Perfect fit without the delay.

[jatleson]

I believe this hose is long enough to get rid of the hard line. It is Rogue Engineering's replacement line. I don't mind the CDV, but wanted SS to help with having to push the clutch to the floor when the car gets up to temperature.

Now the question is to tackle this myself or have my shop install it. (Paging all Chicago area members, check out the Facebook page)

[Vintage42]

I believe this hose is long enough to get rid of the hard line. It is Rogue Engineering's replacement line. I don't mind the CDV, but wanted SS to help with having to push the clutch to the floor when the car gets up to temperature.
Now the question is to tackle this myself or have my shop install it...

According to this post, some clutch lines do away with the hard line.
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...3&postcount=12
That was the case with the UUC line that I got like this:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...3&postcount=12
It was installed by a local indie BMW shop in less than an hour while I waited, for $68. You could ask the Werk Shop in Libertyville.

Edit: After reading later posts, I am not sure my shop did away with with hard section of line. They returned my old soft line, but no hard line. And I have raised the car to see what they did.

[PDP M]

I believe this hose is long enough to get rid of the hard line. It is Rogue Engineering's replacement line. I don't mind the CDV, but wanted SS to help with having to push the clutch to the floor when the car gets up to temperature.

Now the question is to tackle this myself or have my shop install it. (Paging all Chicago area members, check out the Facebook page)

I have the exact same line and it does not replace the short hard line on the slave. It is used with it.

[fmcfad01]

Also, that hard line tends to break during removal on older/higher mileage/weather cars iirc

[Randy Forbes]

Also, that hard line tends to break during removal on older/higher mileage/weather cars iirc

Another reason to go with the 3.0 line.

[felonious monk]

There is no good reason to not convert to the 3.0 line. Pedal feel and clutch engagement is much more consistent. As one mechanic once said to me, the CDV was meant for people who can't drive manual cars properly and had no business being in the "Ultimate Driving Machine". He likened to a lawyer mandated device.

If you are going to spend the time and effort to replace the line, why not use the one the car should've left the factory with?

[Z3MROADY]

FYI- On my '98 Z3 M Roadster S52 I used the rubber flex hose from the 2001 - BMW - Z3 Roadster - M54 - L6 - 3.0L – GAS Z3 2.5l, 3.0L
CLUTCH HOSE #21526753766 from Tomkinson. It was a single rubber CDV delete hose and fit perfectly. Great clutch feel now.

[Kenn]

There is no good reason to not convert to the 3.0 line. Pedal feel and clutch engagement is much more consistent. As one mechanic once said to me, the CDV was meant for people who can't drive manual cars properly and had no business being in the "Ultimate Driving Machine". He likened to a lawyer mandated device.

If you are going to spend the time and effort to replace the line, why not use the one the car should've left the factory with?

Just curious - why is the non-restriction hose OK from the factory for the 3.0, but not the M cars? It seems like if BMW felt the M needed the restriction, they'd feel the same about the 3.0.

[felonious monk]

Just curious - why is the non-restriction hose OK from the factory for the 3.0, but not the M cars? It seems like if BMW felt the M needed the restriction, they'd feel the same about the 3.0.

As Randy mentioned before, the 3.0 has a real CDV unit separate from the hose. On the M, a hose with reduced orifice at one end is used to emulate what a CDV does. It's not that the 3.0 doesn't have CDV; it's just not done with the hose.

[rf900rkw]

I know the CDV is a sacrificial cow of BMW-land, and the M boys are really disappointed that they don't have one to blame. But really. The CDV has a flapper valve acting as a one-way restrictor with a bleed hole, the orifice, of around .040-.050". Size depending on the exact model/engine. The M hose has a smaller end, true. It's around .080". That's four times the size of the much maligned real CDV.

[gmushial]

I know the CDV is a sacrificial cow of BMW-land, and the M boys are really disappointed that they don't have one to blame. But really. The CDV has a flapper valve acting as a one-way restrictor with a bleed hole, the orifice, of around .040-.050". Size depending on the exact model/engine. The M hose has a smaller end, true. It's around .080". That's four times the size of the much maligned real CDV.

Though I wonder how many of the CDV problems are actually just aging, delaminating hoses... I know that was my case... thought I had a CDV, and given the symptoms, it seemed "obvious" that I had one... only to get under the Z to replace the hose and CDV to find there wasn't one. What was in fact the problem was the hose, which had split internally, allowing the fluid into mesh layer, slowly over time delaminating the inner rubber layer from the outer one, so that when one pushed on the clutch, fluid was pumped into the delamination, which pushed the inner rubber layer inward, constraining the passageway, restricting the flow of the fluid to the slave... took some time slicing up the old hose to find it, but there it was: a section of the hose, almost at the top end, about an inch long and about half way around, that had delaminated and was as wet along the cords as the inside of the hose. [This is a common cause for brake problems with aircooled VWs and aging hoses, and was what had me at least looking, wondering, if such hadn't happened on the clutch hose... and sure enough, another rubber hose bits the dust.]

[Mr Bingley]

So, if I understand properly, the OEM 3.0 hose will replace the OEM ///M hose and the small hardline cleanly and without the OEM restriction at one end of the hose (which duplicates the functionality of the CDV). What about the bleed procedure?

[MartyBtoo]

My Indie just unbolted the slave cylinder, let it hand down, opened the bleeder and pumped fluid into the clutch master cylinder until no bubbles came out of the bleeder. Closed the bleeder, bolted the slave back in. Took about a minute.

Marty

[krnnerdboy]

Just did mine with this part from eBay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271574486039

Seller was local to me and shipped it quickly.

I had100k mi and a flare nut wrench did the job w/o rounding the nuts so no hard line was needed. As for bleeding, I did the reverse method with a new oil can($7) I just pumped half the oil can, tightened the bleeder and pumped the clutch a few times and then pumped the rest of the oil can in. No need to remove the slave cylinder or special tools. Literally took 5 min to bleed it and about 15 min to pull/install the line....exactly the time it would have took me to drive to a shop

[jatleson]

Did you keep the hard line that was already there, or remove it and replaced with the new SS line?

[PDP M]

Did you keep the hard line that was already there, or remove it and replaced with the new SS line?

If your are talking about the small hard line off the slave cylinder, you can't just take it out and install the re stainless line. The hard line has 2 male ends and the stainless steel line has 2 female ends. You need to have the hard line installed. From what I've seen the cdv or restriction in the mz3 is the smaller opening in the end of the factory rubber hose, not the hard line. Some aftermarket stainless hoses come with an attached hard line. In those cases the hard line is removed also. But not with the rogue engineering one.

[jatleson]

Got it. Thanks for the explanation.