BMW F80 Dyno

[Soorena]

Hey guys,

Was able to get our new 2015 M3 over to the dyno today for a little test and tune action. It has around 100 miles on the clock... Fuel is 91 octane + a can of octane booster to bring octane up to around 93 octane.

To start I did a few baseline runs in 4th and 5th gear. The best of which was 427rw in 5th gear. Boost was around 19.5psi peak, timing around 9 degrees up top, and I was fairly disappointed with the output. I'm not sure what might be holding back power but we'll have to dive in to that as we get further in to the R&D process.

Not satisfied I decided to whip up a Stage1 alpha tune and after some work had boost up to 24psi and power up to a more respectable ~480rw.

Work continues!

m3_dyno_2.jpg

[Jamesons Viggen]

Why would there be disappointment in the car making more whp than quoted crank?

[Soorena]

There isn't.
Terry was just stating this car has less HP/PSI than N54 with upgraded turbos.

[gnarfy]

nice ! new M3/M4 looks good and make plenty of power.. now I need $$$...

[Jamesons Viggen]

There isn't.
Terry was just stating this car has less HP/PSI than N54 with upgraded turbos.

Yeah, I read the whole thing on N54tech to get a better picture.

With downpipes, etc, this will be a 500+whp car. I remember saying that 6+ months ago and N54 guys were saying it wouldn't happen due to the S55 running too high boost stock and having almost no margins left for tuning/raising the boost.

[Soorena]

Yeah, I read the whole thing on N54tech to get a better picture.

With downpipes, etc, this will be a 500+whp car. I remember saying that 6+ months ago and N54 guys were saying it wouldn't happen due to the S55 running too high boost stock and having almost no margins left for tuning/raising the boost.

Yeah. I'll be adding meth to my M4 when it arrives. Hopefully by then Terry can develope somthing more than a JB+. S63tu guys have that as their main option and Terry said he has no interest in further developing a board for their use. Fingers crossed S55 it's not as encrypted as the twin ECU'd S63 so we can atleast have a speed delimiter.

[Z3speed4me]

Someone buy one and drop it off to Nick G with a blank check to crack the ECU for awesomeness to follow...

[dohcdoh]

Someone buy one and drop it off to Nick G with a blank check to crack the ECU for awesomeness to follow...

Cam? Where is cam? He likes endless money sucking projects.

[Def]

I'm surprised by all the lag for stock turbos and what they quote torque peaks down low as.

[black bnr32]

a little disappointed at the top end drop off, but these cars are gonna put out some big numbers in a few years.

[BadBoostedBmwM3]

Why would there be disappointment in the car making more whp than quoted crank?

Agreed! What's up here? Aren't we just a few ponies away from the s63tu (IIRC, that is new m5/6 motor...)??

Yeah. I'll be adding meth to my M4 when it arrives. Hopefully by then Terry can develope somthing more than a JB+. S63tu guys have that as their main option and Terry said he has no interest in further developing a board for their use. Fingers crossed S55 it's not as encrypted as the twin ECU'd S63 so we can atleast have a speed delimiter.

I'm assuming heatsoak is already known problem by you wanting to add meth and the, seemingly, low timing number up top. I wonder what the EGTs are with that sort of timing.

[Soorena]

I'm surprised by all the lag for stock turbos and what they quote torque peaks down low as.

The turbo DCT cars a bitch to dyno. They don't hold gear and the tq limitation holds you back. I'd say they didn't floor it until 3,000 RPM to avoid those problems. I drove this car before, lag is non-existent.

Agreed! What's up here? Aren't we just a few ponies away from the s63tu (IIRC, that is new m5/6 motor...)??

I'm assuming heatsoak is already known problem by you wanting to add meth and the, seemingly, low timing number up top. I wonder what the EGTs are with that sort of timing.

I don't know whats up with the S63tu. The stock numbers are fairly unconsitent. You see high 400s, low 500s and some times mid 500s. Average i think those cars put down ~500whp.
As for the meth injection, i'm trying to play safe. These DI turbo engines love the juice, so i'm gonna add that my list. I don't know how it's going to manage heat to be honest, but if it's like the M5, meth is necessary.

Someone buy one and drop it off to Nick G with a blank check to crack the ECU for awesomeness to follow...

I'm not holding my breath for anything. BMW said they will these make cars uncrackable and it has been like that so far. There is this Israeli guy who is the go-to person for big money tuners such as G-Power and others. He couldn't do it for the F10 M5. Some Germans close to BMW couldn't do it either. Even Dinan with it's close connection to BMW UK couldn't develop a tune either and they switched to piggybacks as well. There is a so-called press tune on the market which is just some tweaks based on the DAMOS file and that's the only tune that F10's DMEs (there are two of them) accept without trowing codes. My understanding is that piggybacks are what we well be seeing for quite sometimes which is not that bad as long as we get ECU/TCU speed limiter off (newer cars have two speed limiters built in).

[PEI330Ci]

I say stick a Motec M182 on it and be done with it!

[bawareca]

I say stick a Motec M182 on it and be done with it!

I will gladly replace the older and not programmed for boost DMEs if i have to go turbo,but it is still hard to get close to what BMW did on MS41.1,let alone MSS54.But someone to make a proper and better than BMW control of dual vanos,valvetronic,DI turbo engine?Hardly ever.The strongest side of the new era turbo engines is in the very precise data DMEs get from the sensors and the very precise control along with the multiple benefits of the DI.Without the modern electronics and the tuning from the factory one will hardly get to the factory numbers.I mean,in a hot august day you put CA 91 high quality gasoline and go for a few laps of Willow Springs at noon with the AC on,then go back home in the evening.

[Def]

You can do all that with that Motec. In fact you could have MORE sensors like exhaust back pressure, multiple EGTs and do per cylinder fuel and ignition trim etc.


The hard part is replicating all the engineering time that goes into a really full featured tune like that.

[Soorena]

IMO the only standalones out there that can get close to the new MSD ECUs by Siemens is the Syvecs SDI. People say good thing about the Motec 182, don't have any experience with it though.

[Def]

Even a lowly AEM Infinity can run these new engines just fine and put all sorts of safeguards above and beyond what the factory does for running hard.

The problem is not having the hardware at this point with ECUs, the problem is the amount of knowledge and time it takes to develop a REALLY robust tune like that. Most people that just get their car tuned on a dyno and maybe a little street tuning for part throttle aren't going to get that, and it's been that way for quite a while now. This mismatch between hardware and "input" is only getting worse as times goes on.

[dohcdoh]

Is that why stock dme tuning is so popular? It runs smoother because it is the stock computer with tons of development. You're only adjusting fuel and spark curves? You can get a smoother tune with less work?

[bawareca]

You can do all that with that Motec. In fact you could have MORE sensors like exhaust back pressure, multiple EGTs and do per cylinder fuel and ignition trim etc.


The hard part is replicating all the engineering time that goes into a really full featured tune like that.

Exactly my point.Even the greatest hardware is a piece of metal without the proper program (or maps if you like) and that is where it is impossible to get to the factory level of engineering.

[Def]

Is that why stock dme tuning is so popular? It runs smoother because it is the stock computer with tons of development. You're only adjusting fuel and spark curves? You can get a smoother tune with less work?

It's more popular because BMW guys are about 10 years behind the curve on aftermarket FI. Or it could be they spend so much time doing HG jobs they don't have time to install a standalone and tune it.

Exactly my point.Even the greatest hardware is a piece of metal without the proper program (or maps if you like) and that is where it is impossible to get to the factory level of engineering.

I disagree that it's impossible. It's not very difficult, and there are tons of resources to learn it yourself. If you're a blithering idiot - yes, you'll never be able to tune an ECU. But anybody with a little bit of intelligence that puts their mind to it can tune an ECU given some work.

[bawareca]

The hard part is replicating all the engineering time that goes into a really full featured tune like that.

Exactly my point.Even the greatest hardware is a piece of metal without the proper program (or maps if you like) and that is where it is impossible to get to the factory level of engineering.

I disagree that it's impossible. It's not very difficult, and there are tons of resources to learn it yourself. If you're a blithering idiot - yes, you'll never be able to tune an ECU. But anybody with a little bit of intelligence that puts their mind to it can tune an ECU given some work.

I am an idiot but I can tune my car to make a few laps at the track without blowing up.You know,there is only 1 way to prove your point-tune 1 like that and show us the results
The wording "impossible" is pretty accurate as i dont believe someone in a near future will spend the time,money and other valuable resources to reinvent the hot water,i.e. to redo all done by BMW from the beginning instead of just start building on it.

[5mall5nail5]

I say stick a Motec M182 on it and be done with it!

Sure, but $7k+ no options

$7k for an ecu. Barf.

- - - Updated - - -

I am an idiot but I can tune my car to make a few laps at the track without blowing up

Didn't you have a failed engine or two, though? Not trash talking, just confirming.

[dohcdoh]

this can only end well.

[bawareca]

Didn't you have a failed engine or two, though? Not trash talking, just confirming.

I'd never thought that thread will go OT But to confirm for you:one internal failure and a few Hg blown.To quote myself:".....to make a few laps at the track without blowing up".On a platform that is highly unpopular and lacking any kind of public knowledge.But that was my choice

[5mall5nail5]

I'd never thought that thread will go OT But to confirm for you:one internal failure and a few Hg blown.To quote myself:".....to make a few laps at the track without blowing up".On a platform that is highly unpopular and lacking any kind of public knowledge.But that was my choice

No prob - my memory isn't great so I wasn't sure if that was you or someone else thanks