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Thread: Camshaft Replacement?

  1. #1
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    Camshaft Replacement?

    Who's been in this sinking boat and what did it cost you? Had the Coupe in last week for a rear suspension overhaul and a valve adjustment. Unfortunately, the valve adjustment didn't remedy the infamous clicking, and instead, revealed excessively worn cam lobes and rocker arms on the exhaust side of 2-3 cylinders. Probably my fault, as I ran it at Barber with a fouled exhaust cam sensor, but regardless, I have to sort the problem now.

    So, anyone done the job or had it done? Any sources for cams and rocker arms other than OEM or Shrick upgrades? Any convincing reason to go with the Shrick upgrade? Much as I would love the enhanced performance, I just dropped $1,700 for the adjustment and a full rear end refresh, so I'm not dying to spend $4000 on racing cams at the moment. Would you replace just the exhaust cam and rockers, or go for the full job?

    Sigh . . .

  2. #2
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    Vac Motorsports has cams.
    If you have to get in there, you might as well make it worth it.
    If you upgrade cams you will also most likely need a tune also.
    Do it once, do it right!!!!!

  3. #3
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    Hey man, sorry to hear about the cams, I am the one that did your check ride that weekend but I didn't remember you having issues. I just finished the head job and hence cam removal/install on my Z3 that has been sitting idle for a couple of years. I didn't have the dual Vanos setting tool, I tried it per the technique I read somewhere on here and I got it close but I flashed a Vanos advanced code so I must have missed it a little bit. Other than that the car runs, didn't think I was gonna be able to start it this afternoon but I found a sender to stick in the head (not the correct one but plugged the hole) and ran it a little this afternoon. As fate would have it, the starter is bad so I rolled it down the hill and clutch started it. But I digress, back to the cam job.

    The biggest hurdle is all the special tools, what engine is in the coupe? You will need the chain tensioner (which you can borrow from me), the cam alignment jig (I made my own but it is probably unique to my cams since I measured and made one piece), tdc pin (I used a bolt), if you are brave you don't need the cam compression tool, and if you have the dual Vanos you will need the special jig I mention above. I am gonna try to set it per the published procedure on here that doesn't use the jig one more time. I think I made an error so want to try it again. It's not a bad job, if you have experience on motors and can read the step by step instructions it's not hard at all.

  4. #4
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    As stated, there/re a myriad of cam tools involved, and you also need to be able to actuate the solenoids during the procedure (and for verifying positions upon reassembly).



    It may also be possible to have your existing cam repaired/reground; I've honestly never tried that with a BMW cam, but it's pretty common among rebuilding Healey, MG & Triumph engines. Any of the top tier of hotrod camshaft manufacturers should be willing to do this.

    If the rocker arms were identified & kept in order upon removal, then you would only need to replace the damaged ones (12 exhaust rockers/2 per cylinder). the cam-grinder may be able to resurface these as well.

    If you fit a new cam(s) ALL (12 or 24) rockers should be replaced (Penske's showing a price of $799.33 for the exhaust cam/$1021.94 for the stock intake and $70.38 EACH for the "drag levers"__rocker arms to us Yanks).

    Given the expense of replacing the (drag levers, lol!) rocker arms, I'd look into the possibility of having them "resurfaced". See, here's the thing: cams & lifters wear in together, forming patterns, and when you mix them up, they wear out faster.

    Penske also lists a complete remanufactured cylinder head assembly with cams for $6026.60, if you really wanted to refresh things!

    As per earlier E-mails, I still maintain that the cams/rockers can be removed without pulling the entire engine. Now if the rod bearings haven't yet been changed, and given that you like to take it on the track, they should be, then maybe pulling the engine would be cost effective.

    Let me know if you what me to set you up with something like this:





    Whatever you do, choose your shop wisely, as I said before, and based on what info you've given me, I believe that's where your problems began...

    If you want to send the car to me, get a quote here: http://descendantstransportation.com/Get_a_Quote.html

  5. #5
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    I can't speak to possible cam upgrades, but if you have the money - why not? As stated before though, get it tuned.

    If you are planning to do the work yourself, it is possible to do it without the OEM tools. However it is a tedious job, and you will need to do your homework before attempting it. There are plenty of videos on removing the VANOS online, but the tricky part is removing the cams without damaging them. In order to do the the cams need to be locked into position, then you slowly remove the nuts to the retaining journals and 1/8 to 1/4 turn at a time. The good thing is that you'll be trashing the old cams, so it doesn't matter. Reinstalling the cams is a bit easier, but just as tedious with the 1/4 turns.

    If you take it to a shop... make sure they know what they are doing and have plenty of experience with s54 internals. Good luck.

  6. #6
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    Hey, Roger. Good to hear from you. You're right - there was no sign of valve issues during either the December or Spring events at Barber. That's why I'm so perplexed about the cams and "drag levers" developing "excessive wear" within a month after running with no noise and no issues whatsoever. But then again, I'm a mechanical dummy, so I'm sure there are a million possible factors at play here that are beyond my mental grasp. Thus, even if I had the time to attempt a repair myself, I have no business cracking open the head on that engine.

    Randy - Any thoughts on replacing the cam(s) and rockers with a used set from another S54? I've got a few leads on sets pulled from other cars. Regardless of whether I go used or new, the real issue is the work. There are literally only 3 "capable" shops locally, and my normal indy admitted that they've never done this job on an S54. I have 2 other places to call on Monday, but I strongly suspect they won't have the experience either. So, that leaves me either the dealership option, or shipping / driving the car somewhere and having the work done.

    I also monitor the rod bearing status (to the extent possible) with regular oil analyses, and I'm golden as of now. Of course, if the engine is coming out, it probably makes sense to get everything done. Just trying to avoid a total cash bath. This issue has me contemplating everything from selling both the Coupe and my daily driver and getting DD/Track E46, to considering the dark side (Porsche) . . .

    Where are you, Randy? I gather the pics show a completely refurbished S54 shipped to and from you? What would you charge for the job if I supplied the cam(s) and rockers?

  7. #7
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    Wear on the cam lobes and lifters (be they lifters, tappets, rockers, followers, drag arms, etc) is a function of lubrication and lack there-of. I would say now is a very good time for an oil analysis. If the cams are worn as the shop claims, then there should be a very high iron count in the oil.


    /.randy

  8. #8
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    Just sent in a sample yesterday.

  9. #9
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    Did you see the cams or is that what the shop told you? Not saying its your case, but I had a problem with an old M20 motor that I made the rare exception and took to the dealer. They told me I had worn out camshaft which I knew was bogus, I took elsewhere and it was completely unrelated to cam. I put about another 250,000 miles on that "worn out" cam and the car is sitting now but I still wouldn't worry about the cam.

    Point is, get some other eyes on it. If your problem is cams and only cams, no need to dig deeper in the engine and it's a relatively minor job. For a shop, all they have to do is replace cams, retime the cams, retime the Vanos, put the valve cover back on. However, having said all of this, worn cams and only worn cams is not making sense to me. I just did basically this exact job this weekend on my M54, and I didn't have all the tools and I have felt like crap all weekend so there was a lot of downtime in between some work.

  10. #10
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    THIS is how you remove/install the cams. Even the "1/4 turn at a time" will put uneven loading on the hollow camshafts.





    Sadly, the composite horseshoes of the tool didn't survive compressing an M52TU cam into position, hence the wooden pads. One day, I'll take the time to make new horseshoes out of Delrin, or maybe aluminum.

  11. #11
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    True that is the bullet proof method, but people take cams in and out all the time without this relatively expensive tool. You just have to be slow and deliberate and understand where the forces are coming from.

  12. #12
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    I've dealt with Delta Camshafts in Tacoma, WA. They did a regrind on my M42 camshafts a looong time ago. Very affordable regrind services.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodger533i View Post
    True that is the bullet proof method, but people take cams in and out all the time without this relatively expensive tool. You just have to be slow and deliberate and understand where the forces are coming from.
    While I bought all the cam tools for my own car, knowing one day I'd want to rebuild it, when I'm working on someone's else's car, it's bullet proof or nothing.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Forbes View Post
    While I bought all the cam tools for my own car, knowing one day I'd want to rebuild it, when I'm working on someone's else's car, it's bullet proof or nothing.
    Just imagine if we lived in a society where such was the norm/standard... :-)

  15. #15
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    I'm glad you went the extra mile and bought all the tools, but you make it sound like there is a huge compromise to not use this compression tool. There is not. It's a how good is good enough situation. Would I rather have it? Yes, but not $400 rather. But to each there own, I am sure you are convinced its worth it, I am not so we can leave it at that.

  16. #16
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    I can understand and appreciate his attitude.

    I've removed the camshaft on my own car without the tool.
    I wouldn't risk it if I charged someone for the work.

    It's the same with belts and hoses. For my own car, "it's 10 years old, but still in good condition, I'll keep an eye on it". For someone else I would worry "hmmm... what if it breaks next year... I know it is older and could easily replace it now."

  17. #17
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    Its a little different than that from my perspective. If I was the only one in my shop and I knew that I would be the only one removing/installing cams then I would never spend the money. If I had other technicians who may not be as meticulous or might not understand the forces involved I might buy this tool. Thats what I mean when I say bullet proof. I know its turned in to a minor pissing match, not my intent, but to say THIS is the only way to remove a cam is just not case.

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