AVIN ANDROID E39/E53 Multimedia Stereo/Navigation

[jeffb325]

So....I hear some of you guys like android......



/// AVIN AVANT all Android Multimedia System








BACKGROUND


Im known on these forums as "the dynavin guy" but recently Dynavin has been moving away from the android stuff to concentrate more on vehicle integration and more conventional, audio driven car stereo/navigation units, mostly in newer cars. While I'm 100% on board with where they are going and excited about everything they have in the pipeline, it has left me looking for a high quality, android powered, solution for you android fans out there. Ive looked at a lot of options and while Im still not 100% convinced that android is the most appropriate OS for a car environment I do know that many of you guys love the flexibility, the apps, and expanded capability that it offers. Dont get me wrong, with the right tweaks it CAN work, but taking a OS designed for a phone or tablet and making it into a car stereo takes a lot of know-how, A LOT of work, and frankly nobody has yet pulled it off in a particularly user friendly way. Until now....




Like many of you here on the forums Ive known "Tommy" aka, "M3evolution", for a long time now, he was one of my early customers for the dynavin android units and is well known here on the forums as the creator of the M3evolution Android ROM that is so popular around here. He has been working on his own, 100% android powered unit for a couple years now and in a coincidence of good timing, Tommy's new company, www.avinusa.com is coming to market with his new Avant Series of vehicle specific, android powered, stereo/navigation, at the same time I am looking for android powered alternatives to compliment my current offerings.


In addition, with the recent proliferation of junk "knock off" units floating around these forums its become clear it was time for me to do something, as a business I dont like seeing crappy low end equipment making inroads, and as a BMW enthusiast and user of this forum I dont like seeing people getting ripped off!


So Tommy and I talked things over and based on our history, similar views on customer service, interest in the "right way to do business", and shared goals, we have decided to add the AVIN USA products to my existing product offerings, so you guys get the best of both of our strengths, my service, vehicle knowledge, and install experience, Tommy's programming, android knowledge, and product development skills.


DISCLAIMER: Just like on my other threads.... I obviously have an interest in this product doing well.... BUT as my history and reputation here shows, im also an honest guy, and im here to help. My writeup here is intended to show the unit as it is, good an bad, as I see it. Its also intended to kick off a conversation for YOU to post the good and the bad, and for us to provide answers and direction to those who need it. Unlike the guys hawking those cheapo knock-off units, taking everyone's money and shipping half functional units, then disappearing.... We will answer your questions, support the products we sell, before AND AFTER the sale. We are not going anywhere.




As I have asked in my other threads, lets keep this clean, Q&A, install info and experiences, keep the (uninformed) opinion, speculation, nonsense, and sales inquiries elsewhere. You can visit my website www.jandtdistributing.com if you are interested in purchasing.




Now on to the good stuff....

Some of the pics below are of an E46 install we did early on, although identical in function the E39 units are cosmetically different, scroll to the bottom for some installed e39 specific pics....










Take a look at the install guides on our website if want all the specifics about dash disassembly etc...thats been extensively covered elsewhere so ill just stick to the product info here.....


When you start the unit up you will see the familiar Android screen, status bar, etc... much like you would see on a phone or tablet, but unlike a tablet or phone this one has been customized for car stereo duty, small icons replaced by big easy to access buttons for the various sources. Along with the normal knobs for volume and tuning and "hard buttons" for track selection, there a couple hard buttons on the left and right for the critical android tasks of BACK, HOME, and MENU. Nice! Makes using android while driving MUCH better as you are not trying to touch a tiny touchscreen icon while driving. The buttons are backlit in the correct BMW amber color and turn on and off with the headlights. Pressing the right side knob will change the screen brightness from full, to dimmed, to off. Finer adjustment is available in the settings menu.






Before we move on, a word about startup. 100% android devices have traditionally had a looooonnnnggggg startup time as they need to boot up the OS before they can do any car stereo related duties, The Avin can be set up to "go to sleep" for a chosen time, like say 6 hours, if you restart the car within this time the unit will "wake up" in only 2 seconds.....VERY fast. That way if you are our running errands and doing a lot of stop and go, you are not constantly waiting on your stereo to boot up. Once past the "sleep" time window the unit will turn off completely in order to not run down the cars battery. Upon starting the car it will need to do a cold boot, about 30 seconds, still VERY good for a unit of this kind. Set the sleep time to 12 hours or 2 days and most people will rarely see a regular boot up, just a quick wake up. See the video below to see the instant startup.


My biggest complaint about previous 100% android units Ive looked at is that they look and act more like tablets than car stereos (Parrot, im looking at you)....not so much here, all the normal stereo functionality is here, volume/tuning knobs, source selection icons, audio controls, etc....its all fairly intuitive and using this thing as a stereo was obviously a top priority here, more advanced android specific functionality is still here, but its not front and center. The screen is not capacitive, its a standard automotive style resistive screen but the implementation is good, scrolling and swiping works relatively well with the fingertip and things in general are responsive and work well. Out of the box the unit is running the "car home" android launcher so the buttons are large, the swiping is minimal, basically everything android related is setup with car use in mind.





RADIO
Pretty standard radio stuff here, simple useable.






CD/DVD
CD/DVDs works as expected, the only thing unusual is that this is being run by android!






IPOD
This part is interesting, ipod controlled by android. The ipod interface is fairly intuitive, standard artist>album>track navigation, you can scroll using the knob or by swiping the screen, nice. My only complaint is the load time, the unit will start playing music from the ipod within seconds BUT there is a substantial load time before you can browse, depending on the size of your ipod and number of tracks. No playlists so if you are a heavy playlist user you might want to use a different music storage solution.....luckily with this being android there are certainly other options for playing music if the ipod player does not fit your needs.






BLUETOOTH
Phone and Streaming, no album art or info displayed when streaming, but the phonebook syncs, and the streaming audio quality sounds similar to plugging in.









DIGITAL MUSIC
You have lots of options here, the built in USB and SD card players are fairly simple, if you just want to load up some albums and go on your way its fine, but it does not allow for advanced searching, its basically just a 2 layer file browser, good if you just have a bunch of albums as its quick and simple, bad if you have an extensive library. Heavy duty users may want to use a different music app like google music, power amp, etc....











NAVIGATION
This being android the default nav app is google nav and all that comes with it. It works nicely but requires an internet connection, there are a number of other offline nav app options available on the google play store however. Copilot, waze, sygic, igo, etc... Some are offline apps, some are online apps, some are a hybrid, most store the map data on the SD card, what works best for you is a matter of your priorities and use patterns. One REAL nice detail here, the NAVI button on the front panel can be mapped to any nav app installed on the unit....so pressing that button is an easy one touch access to nav.





INTERNET BROWSING, EMAIL, ETC....
Since you are connected to the internet you have access to all that you would expect, email, browsing, etc... I dont recommend these things, that is what your computer is for, and most of us have phones now days that do these things just fine. But its here if you want it.










APPS!

Internet connectivity......This is android, android is a mobile operating system, mobile operating systems are intended to be connected to the internet. As such you should plan using this device in an internet connected manner. The unit comes with a wifi antenna and while you can connect to any wifi source, you will want to get a mobile wifi hotspot of some kind, typically this is done with a smartphone with hotspot capability (virtually all current smartphones have this).

You can also tether through USB if your phone is capable. Yes that is something you most likely will have to pay for. While you dont NEED to be internet connected for regular day to day stereo related use, you wont be able to do much with any of the android apps as most of them require some kind of internet connection.

Avin also offers an optional 3G SIM card modem but understand that there are many variables involved with getting YOUR carrier's SIM card to work with this modem, this is not something we have any control over and getting it working will be between you and your cell provider. In general I recommend using wifi and a hotspot as its easy to set up and is much more universal so it works easily and consistently.

If you dont intend to be on the internet or utilize the more advanced android app functionality you should probably consider a more conventional car stereo navigation system like the Dynavin units (shameless plug ).



TORQUE
This one is big and for some people is the primary reason to get an android unit in the first place! Torque is a great OBDII integration app that reads the cars ECU data via the OBDII port and sends it via bluetooth to the Avin's screen, it allows data and performance logging, etc... The unit is ready to run this on out of the box, the app is already installed and configured. Just add the optional bluetooth OBDII plug, search for and turn it on in the bluetooth settings, and you are in business. VERY simple since Avin built the capability right into the unit.














PANDORA








PowerAmp
Stock music player not doing it for you? Try something else! I personally have always liked Poweramp because of all the nice audio controls it gives you, I ran into an issue though as it seems google nav and power amp dont like to play nice with each other and every time I would start up google nav it would turn of poweramp....not sure what that is about and I didnt spend much time trying to sort it out, this didnt happen with any of the other music apps or sources so its something specific....anyway, just thought I should point out that this IS android after all and your results may vary!






Tons of flexibility on some of these apps....





Conclusion.....


So this thing is pretty good, I commend ///AVIN, and Tommy (aka 'M3evolution') on creating as good an android unit as I have seen. Its a competent stereo AND an usable android device at the same time, is not too complicated/technical to use, and is reasonably priced. I still think that android units in general are not for everyone. They are not quite simple "plug and play" units, still require a little bit of "know how" for the more advanced features, and Internet connectivity is required to get the most out of them. If you want a "regular" stereo, you dont intend to tether to the internet, and you dont want to fiddle with technical details, you are probably better off with a convention a stereo solution (our dynavin units, a name-brand single DIN, etc....)


But if you dont mind spending a little time dialing things in, you want internet connectivity, or you just want the flexibility to set things up the way YOU want them, this is going to be a nice solution for you.
















Installed Customer Pics


Here you go.....thanks to E46fan**** member Dr3wX5 for the pics of the Avin installed in his X5


Boot Screen Loading:






Home View:



Additional Screens:



Radio:



Spotify:






Google Maps:



Torque (Free):



Torque (Pro):



Google Play Store:



Bluetooth:

[FredRC]

This unit has a beautiful designed interface, however I`m concerned on hardware specs as Androids tends to get real slow once you start adding apps.

Do you have the specs ?

[jeffb325]

If you are interested the specs are on avins website, avinusa.com. As I recall the specs are similar to a lot of other units out there BUT Avins emphasis has been on functionality, not specs. A certain "cheapo china direct" unit out there has great specs, but following the threads on E46 fanatics its clear that specs dont get you much since the unit barely works! As I said above the Avin unit is a very good car stereo regardless of the fact that its running on android, not something ive seen in past android units and shows tommy at Avins commitment to getting the details right. As a very nice bonus its also internet capable, can run apps, stream music, and be customized to look like whatever you want.

[Fuddy]

in for e39 info

[jeffb325]

With regards to the E39 specific stuff...keep in mind we are not reinventing the wheel here.....Dynavin (and others) have been making E39 units for years now and its a 100% understood platform. In fact this is basically the same unit as the E46, just with different cosmetics and an extra wire harness. There are already quite a few installs done on the E46s (a couple big threads on E46fanatics).

Keep in mind though that just like all other aftermarket head units, cars with the DSP system are not plug and play, so please lets not beat that dead horse. If you want to participate in a conversation about DSP solutions checkout this thread:http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...k-for-DSP-E39s

[HlyDvlz1989]

in for e39 info and its just going to be a given that this doesn't work with DSP before anyone asks..unless corrected by OP

[jeffb325]

I see I'm not the only one getting tired of that conversation!

[sleuth255]

I see that it says "dimmable backlight" on the website. Does that mean it has auto dim like the stock MK IV navigation screen? No auto dim is kind of a show stopper for me based on personal experience. When that feature on mine broke it became pretty much unusable since I was constantly twiddling with the brightness. Speaking of Nav, I see that I will also need a 6 meter cable if I want to install this device. Can you tell me where this cable needs to run?

[jeffb325]

You press the right side knob to dim the screen, very easy. It has three steps, full, dim, screen off.

in an oem nav equipped car the radio module and more importantly the radio wiring is in the trunk, the 6m extension cable gets all that wiring up to the dash.

[540iEP]

<troll> "Hey - I saw this unit, and I was curious if it works with cars that have DSP?" </troll>

Ok ok - don't kill me for cracking a joke.

In all seriousness, though, I've been drooling for this Avin unit, the DSP crossover, some sort of aftermarket amp, and a sub.
You should put together some sort of package deal for it....Avin + DSP crossover (with amp and/or sub add-on options).
This way you could buy, at a discount (if you can still make it so you profit), the Avin head unit, DSP crossover, aftermarket amp, and sub all in one nice package with a bit of a discount. Add solid DIY instructions so we wouldn't have to piece it all together from all the existing DIYs, and you'd have yourself one sweet "kit."

Keep this stuff coming guys, and thanks for all the hard work!

[Mannyf540]

<troll> "Hey - I saw this unit, and I was curious if it works with cars that have DSP?" </troll> Ok ok - don't kill me for cracking a joke. In all seriousness, though, I've been drooling for this Avin unit, the DSP crossover, some sort of aftermarket amp, and a sub. You should put together some sort of package deal for it....Avin + DSP crossover (with amp and/or sub add-on options). This way you could buy, at a discount (if you can still make it so you profit), the Avin head unit, DSP crossover, aftermarket amp, and sub all in one nice package with a bit of a discount. Add solid DIY instructions so we wouldn't have to piece it all together from all the existing DIYs, and you'd have yourself one sweet "kit." Keep this stuff coming guys, and thanks for all the hard work!

I would be in for such a deal as well !!

[//m320is]

Why can't any of these units support satellite radio? I have 3 cars that I would install these in but without sat radio support it's not even a thought. Is there a reason for this?

[bfp9]

Why can't any of these units support satellite radio? I have 3 cars that I would install these in but without sat radio support it's not even a thought. Is there a reason for this?

I've wondered this too. There clearly isn't much of a market for it. I would love to be able to though.

[apocalypsegoat]

This sounds like a perfect unit, I just can't bring myself to spend $800 on a car-specific radio when these e39's are at least 10 years old. The parrot, while not as custom as this, has a capacitative screen and seemingly better internals, at close to $400.

What makes this unit so damn costly?

[jeffb325]

This sounds like a perfect unit, I just can't bring myself to spend $800 on a car-specific radio when these e39's are at least 10 years old. The parrot, while not as custom as this, has a capacitative screen and seemingly better internals, at close to $400.

What makes this unit so damn costly?

The cost argument always gets under my skin....whether it be dynavin related or avin, or just about anything tech related.....please dont take this as an attack, its nothing personal, you just bring up an issue I run into often and I think needs explanation.

First off, I think people often incorrectly equate things like these stereos to their $199 android tablets...I suppose because they are similar in screen size and can be put on your cars dash...BUT....A car stereo is not a tablet, it is a car stereo. It has a radio, a DVD/CD drive, a 4 channel amplifier to power speakers, wire harnesses to connect to your car and peripheral devices, an ibus interface to integrate your steering wheel controls, plastics and metal parts that fit the form of your dash, buttons, matching lighting, mounting brackets, I could go on.... these all cost money and they all add up.....

Secondly, Doing things right costs money. You have to develop, tool, and manufacture the unit and all the related parts, and get it to all work relatively well (VERY VERY hard to do), more than half the cost is right there. Package it, include all the things mentioned above. Then if you are not a pirate, you have to pay for software/hardware licenses (for instance, we pay over $70 per unit for the licenses to run igo primo on our dynavin units). Ship them all over the world, pay shipping and customs at various places along the way. Then when you do sell one you have to pay again, credit card processing fees, more shipping. Oh, and you want a warranty too right?.....and an install guide, and a person to answer your phone calls and emails when you cant figure something out. And that is BEFORE we pay for actual business expenses, rent, electricity, phones, internet, forum sponsorships so that we can even have these kinds of discussions....oh and dont forget it would also be nice if there could be at least a little profit in it.....because if there isnt, the products, the vendors, us sponsors, and ultimately this forum, wont be around for long!

Look around these forums, there are some cheap units being sold direct out of china for half the price.....read the threads and you will clearly see that you get what you pay for, half the price for a half functioning unit and much less than half the support. Its important to point out that the reason they have terrible support isnt because the are evil, its because there is not enough profit in the deal for them to afford to help you.



And a different but related point. You mention the Parrot unit...finding it for $400 online is indicative of another problem in the this industry.....there is almost always somebody in distress dumping some inventory. I sell the parrot unit....dealer cost is over $450. Its supposed to sell for $599. But when you see them online for $400 its not because somebody is happily selling them for that, its because somebody needs cash now, or bought out the inventory when a business already went belly up. Somebody somewhere is loosing money on that $400 Parrot unit.


Although cheap prices are nice, big picture wise the above adds up to a bad sign for consumers. Its often thought that competition is a good thing for the consumer, and most of the time it is, but sometimes it can go too far, to a place where everyone looses....Ill ramble about another interest/hobby of mine, home theater. The Pioneer Kuro Plasmas were widely reviewed as the best TV ever made, consumers, tech writers/reviewers all loved them. And then Pioneer pulled the plug and got out of the TV business, competition had pushed plasma pricing to a point where it was impossible to make any money. They sold their technology to Panasonic....the worlds largest manufacture of Plasma TVs and widely considered to be the next best....guess what, as of NOW, they just pulled the plug too, prices were too low, even though they have the best product, there was no money in it, so they are out too. It was nice for a little while while things were cheap but now, as a consumer, I have LESS choice....the best TVs on the market no longer exist and I must now compromise for something lesser. I DONT want to see that happen here. If prices were to get pushed down TOO far, guys like me and tommy pack up and leave. No more good products, no more support, no more forum sponsors, etc.... then we ALL loose.

That concludes today's business management 101 lecture, Ill get off my soapbox now!

[//m320is]

Jeff, can you address the sat radio issue? Is there just too small of a segment to offer, or is something else stopping it? Now that Sirius/xm have standardized their receivers it should be easier to incorporate correct?

[jeffb325]

Jeff, can you address the sat radio issue? Is there just too small of a segment to offer, or is something else stopping it? Now that Sirius/xm have standardized their receivers it should be easier to incorporate correct?

I was going to include this in my above "rant" but you posted before I could get the edit in....

Im just the distributor here, not the manufacturer, so the following is just my opinion....

But yes I think its too small of a segment to justify the expense. I know that was the case with Dynavin a few years ago when they looked at it. Keep in mind that this is a tiny niche product to begin with, then remember that SiriusXM is primarily a US service, and then what percentage of that have a subscription....so its a niche of a niche of niche. I do agree though that since the tuners have been standardized the cost to develop is surly less than it was back when you had to develop and manufacture your own tuner.

In addition the emphasis both in Avin and Dynavins case is on streaming and internet connectivity when it comes to android units.....you can of course run the SiriusXM app directly on the unit OR run it on your smartphone and stream the audio via bluetooth or a hardwired connection.




And for you guys asking for a DSP DIY kit......even though the installation of the head unit is fairly easy, and the crossover/amp install is not rocket science, I would in no way support the idea that its an easy DIY kind of thing....you need more than an instructional youtube video to do an install like this. A decent working knowledge of car audio, mechanics, electronics, and the tools we use to install them to do this install. If you CAN piece together the knowledge from a couple guides and forum writups and you DO own and know how to use a couple basic electrical tools you CAN do this yourself. But there is kind of a natural barrier to entry here....and it should probably stay that way....

If you can figure it out from the info that is available by all means, go for it.....But if you cant you should probably have an installer do it.

[e30ultimate]

Introductory price at 150-200 off for the first few units and you have my money. Presents wonderfully but this unit doesnt have the resume or pedigree of established brands. Not necessarily a bad thing you could make waves(hope you do as I have a few more bmw/benz in need of nice headunits) or sink straight to the bottom. You already know this but you need a few out in vehicles instead of shelves before you have folks throwing their money at you.

Oh yeah couldnt folks just BT stream their satellite radio via app on their phone.......... you are already feeding the headunit data. Which reminds me how is the BT mic for phone calls. Ive had so many issues with pioneers top of the line Z110-150 units. Yes i have had All of them and they all have horrible bt mics and feedback driving the other end nuts trying to decipher what Im saying regardless of phone used on my end.

[bigjoe87865]

This unit has a beautiful designed interface, however I`m concerned on hardware specs as Androids tends to get real slow once you start adding apps.

Do you have the specs ?

Yup, this was my main concern too. unfortunately I just went to the avin site and this unit is only 800mhz processor, 512 ram and resistive screen. pretty much when compared to android smartphones/tablets , this is 2009-2010 tech as far as cpu/ram goes. My phone is over a year old, has 1.5ghz dual core and 2gb ram and is starting to show its age.

aside from that, I am loving everything else.

[jeffb325]

A bunch have been installed already....but most of the discussion is over on E46Fana******. Ill see if I can get a few of those guys to post their installs over here.

- - - Updated - - -
Edit: Added a bunch of customer pics to the original post....thanks to E46fan**** member Dr3wX5 for the pics

[Stereoinstaller1]

So many silly statements in this thread!

Jeff, your patience and tact are amazing. Mine, not so much, especially with some of these responses. Holy crap, $200 off? How much profit do you people think is in this thing? How much do you think it costs each and every month just to be able to post here to sell the thing?

People, this isn't some multi-million dollar deal, these aren't being built to be sold by the thousands daily at WalMart. Stop expecting a custom made $800 car stereo made in the hundreds to have the same processor as your $600 MSRP phone that are made in the millions. To anyone with any practical knowledge at all, you sound silly. Capacitive vs resistive, 800Mhz vs quad core...come on, of course this is older tech and you all whine about the price, imagine what 2014 tech would add to that cost!

In the meantime, as a 32 year veteran professional car stereo installer, I can say easily that this is the logical choice for getting great audio, especially with NAV, in your BMW. No cutting, no hackery, run a few wires and maybe connect some wires. Hire a pro if you can't or don't want to do it yourself. Simple, easy, smooth, great support (when was the last time you called Alpine or Kenwood for tech support? LOL) AND you get to support a vendor who supports this forum. Yes, $800 is sort of expensive for a deck, but nothing compared to hacking up your heater.

Jeff, thanks again. Hope I wasn't too harsh!

Luke

[jeffb325]

Thanks for the support Luke....yes, those of us in the business know the deal but there is an interesting thing going on culturally now.....the phone industry has caused people to misunderstand what tech costs......

To clarify for those who dont know what Luke and I are talking about.....consumers get "tricked" into thinking their high tech phone costs $99 (or even free!) and in the case of google the software is "free" too. What many fail to realize is that the phone subsidized....the TRUE cost of a phone is the monthly fee.....in most cases a 2 year minimum contract at around $80/month.....so its actually $1600, minimum! Now they have these "trade in" programs that actually push the price up near $3000 over a couple year period! WOW! AND google didn't create android and get it on every phone out there out of the goodness of their hearts.....they did it because they can use it to collect your usage and location info and sell targeted advertising and make $$$$$$.

The point is that phones are an entirely different industry and an entirely different business model. The money is made at the service end, not so much at the manufacturing end. Comparing them to car stereos is silly, despite the fact that everyone obviously is.....

[RVAE34]

Wow!! This is awesome! And I am just getting ready to start acquiring stereo components. I think I found my new headunit I will read through this thread in it's entirety when I get home from work but in skimming it, looks great!

[jeffb325]

Oh yeah couldnt folks just BT stream their satellite radio via app on their phone.......... you are already feeding the headunit data.

Absolutely, thats how I do it in my own car. I run the siriusXM app and stream the audio to the stereo via bluetooth audio. You could probably also just run the SiriusXM app right on the Avin but I have not personally tried that. I think I would prefer to run it on my phone anyway as I could "take it with me" and continue listening when I leave the car.

[jeffb325]

Wow!! This is awesome! And I am just getting ready to start acquiring stereo components. I think I found my new headunit I will read through this thread in it's entirety when I get home from work but in skimming it, looks great!

Let me know if you have any questions.

off topic: thats an interesting car you have there