SENSEN shocks

[dak911]

I have installed 4 SENSENs on my 96 and I think I (they) have a problem...the rear of the car seems very "flat" ie: stiff when driving over small bumps like the a small reflective lane markers on a roadway
They don't seem "right" very thuddy (is that a word)
I am ready to pull them out but I need so advice...how can I check them?

[gmushial]

You might do a search on SENSEN in this forum - sadly you're not the first person to run into this problem, ie, I remember reading about this same problem a couple months ago here. Sorry to hear that someone else got bit. [hint: KYBs can be had for $200 or less for all four corners, and work excellently - that's the route I went 10k miles ago and am still all smiles.]

[Cmanride]

Although I am not proud to admit it, I have Sensens on mine and I am very happy with the performance so far.

[eluther3z3]

I just put Sensens on mine as weell. Haven't noticed a problem yet.

BTW - When I was pulling them out of the box, I noticed the label had KYB on it. Not sure if the performance will be different

[Wojtek79]

Where do you guys get these KYB's at? Checking the usual vendors I am able to only find SACHS. Maybe because I have an ///M?

[Vintage42]

I have Sensen shocks on the rear and they are alright. The old Sachs struts and shocks had 32K miles and felt harsh on broken pavement. Their rods felt soft when manually pushed and pulled. The new Sensen shocks were stiffer when pushed and pulled, and their firmness is good on broken pavement, which I look for because I like to feel the suspension soak up the bumps.
I have new KYBs struts up front, and Sensen shocks are a good equal. The Z3 actually rides a little smoother than my Forester with 33K miles.

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I just put Sensens on mine as weell. Haven't noticed a problem yet. BTW - When I was pulling them out of the box, I noticed the label had KYB on it. Not sure if the performance will be different

The boxes said the Sensens were equal to KYB and Monroe:
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f280/vintagefortytwo/BMW%20Z3%20Related/SensenZ3Strut.jpg
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f280/vintagefortytwo/BMW%20Z3%20Related/SensenZ3Shock-1.jpg

I have new KYB struts and new Sensen shocks on my Z3, and their performance is the same.

[gmushial]

Where do you guys get these KYB's at? Checking the usual vendors I am able to only find SACHS. Maybe because I have an ///M?

I got mine off eBay just at $200 inc shipping (all four corners); then about two weeks after I got them installed, the wife found them on Amazon... actually she wasn't sure they were the correct ones and came asking me if they were the same - they were... don't remember the exact price... was either $186 or $168 for the four corners (plus shipping). After that (this was last June/July) I checked eBay a couple times and noticed that deals came and went - generally they were more, but sometimes were less than what I paid ;-( My general impression is: if you're willing to wait for a deal, one can get worthwhile ones; if you need it today or tomorrow, then you're going to pay more, maybe quite a bit more. After I did the install and posted about it, others commented that from their LFAPS they had paid more than what I did for four corners, just for the fronts :-(

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I got mine off eBay just at $200 inc shipping (all four corners); then about two weeks after I got them installed, the wife found them on Amazon... actually she wasn't sure they were the correct ones and came asking me if they were the same - they were... don't remember the exact price... was either $186 or $168 for the four corners (plus shipping). After that (this was last June/July) I checked eBay a couple times and noticed that deals came and went - generally they were more, but sometimes were less than what I paid ;-( My general impression is: if you're willing to wait for a deal, one can get worthwhile ones; if you need it today or tomorrow, then you're going to pay more, maybe quite a bit more. After I did the install and posted about it, others commented that from their LFAPS they had paid more than what I did for four corners, just for the fronts :-(

Meant to answer the ///M part of your post - when I was shopping for them on eBay, the seller I ended up buying from, had both: ///M and non-///M, for the same price... I had to be careful to match part numbers per the KYB website and make sure I got the right ones (which I did).

[mnguyen84]

why not have kyb for both front and rear? i'm getting close to replacing my stock and struts. I was leaning towards Sachs, because i hear they are oem....but they're kinda pricey...which i dont mind. but if i can get a better bang for the buck... then i wouldn't mind that either.

I have new KYB struts and new Sensen shocks on my Z3, and their performance is the same.

[Vintage42]

... why not have kyb for both front and rear?

I ordered Sensens front and rear, and the left front had what the vendor called a "clocking" problem (twisted mounts) so it didn't fit, and a replacement had the same problem. So I returned all three front Sensens and bought KYBs locally, keeping the Sensens on the rear. They are fine, so I don't see the need to spend the time and money replacing them with KYBs as I don't think there would be any difference.

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... i'm getting close to replacing my stock and struts. I was leaning towards Sachs, because i hear they are oem....but they're kinda pricey...which i dont mind. but if i can get a better bang for the buck... then i wouldn't mind that either.

I removed the OEM Sachs from my '97 1.9L in January at 33,000 miles. They did not push and pull as stiffly as the new Sensens or the new KYBs, but they were sound so I hung onto them. If you want the set of four and like new rear rubber mounts for free plus shipping, PM me.

[JackDuggan]

I have Sensens on my 318ti and I have noticed that the rears are very stiff. The fronts seem OK, and they were cheap. The car has 230k miles on it so I didn't want to spend a lot of money. I'm hoping they'll loosen up a bit as time goes on, but maybe that's wishful thinking. I just put Bilstein HD's on my Z3 and I love them, but couldn't afford them on two cars.

[Vintage42]

I have Sensens on my 318ti and I have noticed that the rears are very stiff... I'm hoping they'll loosen up a bit as time goes on, but maybe that's wishful thinking...

Their shocks and struts might stay the same for a long time. They source the best internal components:
http://www.sensen-na.com/product-technical-information/
But then they can't keep the mounts lined up with each other:
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...2strut-1-1.jpg

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I have Sensens on my 318ti and I have noticed that the rears are very stiff... I just put Bilstein HD's on my Z3 and I love them, but couldn't afford them on two cars.

So, how would you describe the difference between the Sensens and the Bilsteins? Why do you like the Bilsteins more? Are the Bilsteins softer? Just in the rear?

[mnguyen84]

Definitely, if your 1997 set will fit my 1996

I removed the OEM Sachs from my '97 1.9L in January at 33,000 miles. They did not push and pull as stiffly as the new Sensens or the new KYBs, but they were sound so I hung onto them. If you want the set of four and like new rear rubber mounts for free plus shipping, PM me.

[amancuso]

I have KYB replacements front and rear for my 2000 Z3.

[JackDuggan]

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So, how would you describe the difference between the Sensens and the Bilsteins? Why do you like the Bilsteins more? Are the Bilsteins softer? Just in the rear?[/QUOTE]

The Z3 had it's original Sachs shocks and struts with 94k miles on it. When I did the change to Bilsteins I also did the front control arms and bushings. The whole car feels much better now with very good control over bumps.

The 318ti also had it's original Sachs shocks and struts with 234k miles, but oddly they were in better shape than the ones on the Z3. The Sensens feel OK on the front but not as good as the Bilsteins and on the back it feels like they're shocks from a dump truck or something. I can't even push down the rear end to see if it will spring back. I guess I should look up the specs on the them and see how they compare to the originals.

[Vintage42]

...The 318ti also had it's original Sachs shocks and struts with 234k miles... The Sensens feel OK on the front... on the back it feels like they're shocks from a dump truck or something. I can't even push down the rear end to see if it will spring back. I guess I should look up the specs on the them and see how they compare to the originals.

You are comparing Bilsteins on the Z3 to Sensens on the 318ti. Good to know that the Sachs went 234k miles on the 318ti. The person who got my 33k set for free should be pleased.

On my Z3, the new rear Sensens feel just like my new front KYBs -- they seem well matched. The ride is firm and controlled but not harsh. I could easily buy rear KYBs and toss the Sensens, but see no reason to.

I am sure Bilsteins would feel great on my Z3, but for less than half the price, I am pleased with the KYBs and Sensens.

Yet, it is true that I don't know what I am missing with Bilsteins. Next winter when the car goes on jackstands, I may be tempted to find out.

[JackDuggan]

I'm going to take the Sensens off the rear today and put the original Sachs shocks back on to see the difference. I think they're just too stiff for that car. It's a hatchback and shorter and lighter in the rear than the other E36's, maybe these shocks would be OK on the coupe/sedan/convertible.

[Vintage42]

So, on your 318ti, you are going to remove the new Sensen shocks and put back on the original Sachs shocks with 234,000 miles, report the difference on this round trip, and expect to be more pleased with the softness of the old worn Sachs.

I just went 50 miles today with the new Sensen shocks on the Z3, over some rough roads, and I prefer the Sensens to the old Sachs.

The old Sachs were softer, it's true, but did not have the damping of the new Sensens. The soft old Sachs pounded over bumps, moving up and down with not much damping, while the car remained steady over their thumping. The new Sensens glue the car to the road, bumps are damped, and the car moves with the bumps. I think for handling and adhesion to the road, the damping of the Sensens is more solid and reassuring.

[JackDuggan]

So, on your 318ti, you are going to remove the new Sensen shocks and put back on the original Sachs shocks with 234,000 miles, report the difference on this round trip, and expect to be more pleased with the softness of the old worn Sachs.

I just went 50 miles today with the new Sensen shocks on the Z3, over some rough roads, and I prefer the Sensens to the old Sachs.

The old Sachs were softer, it's true, but did not have the damping of the new Sensens. The soft old Sachs pounded over bumps, moving up and down with not much damping, while the car remained steady over their thumping. The new Sensens glue the car to the road, bumps are damped, and the car moves with the bumps. I think for handling and adhesion to the road, the damping of the Sensens is more solid and reassuring.

The problem I was experiencing was low speed bouncing in rear. I'm not an engineer so I can't tell you the precise reason, but I think it had something to do with the stiffness of the new shocks. When I would start out the back of the car would bounce like a pogo stick or something. I put the old Sachs shocks on to see if it was in fact the shocks causing it. The bouncing went away. So I ordered a new set of Sachs shocks. Sachs/Boge has a different shock for the ti model. Sensen and many of the others uses the same rear shock on all the E36's.

When I was at speed the Sensens felt fine, and on the front they are fine, but that weird bounce in the back at low speeds when accelerating was something I had never experienced before.

[gmushial]

I wonder, and am equally surprised that you like the old Sachs vs the new Sensens - not that I'm a fan of the Sensens - just would expect the Sachs to be pretty well shot at that mileage [I know that the ones that I pulled off my Z at 132k were totally gone]. But I'm wondering if something else isn't happening here. What I'm thinking is: that either the diff mount has at least one leg broken, or the box channel under the trunk has broken multiple welds. What I'm thinking is that with the shot Sachs: under acceleration whatever is loose is able to move to its extreme position, unopposed by the shocks, and stays there until you get off the gas; vs. with the Sensens, they're trying to resist the motion (like a shock should), but given some looseness in the system, setup an oscillation instead or as an artifact. It'll be interesting to see if after you install the new Sachs that this bouncing doesn't come back. If it does: check the diff mount and likewise, check the trunk floor for popped spot welds. I might be entirely wet on this... but something doesn't make sense. But again, will be interesting to see what the Sachs do.

[Vintage42]

The problem I was experiencing was low speed bouncing in rear... When I would start out the back of the car would bounce like a pogo stick or something... that weird bounce in the back at low speeds when accelerating was something I had never experienced before.

That does not sound like something shocks could cause by themselves on a smooth pavement.

... What I'm thinking is: that either the diff mount has at least one leg broken, or the box channel under the trunk has broken multiple welds. What I'm thinking is that with the shot Sachs: under acceleration whatever is loose is able to move to its extreme position, unopposed by the shocks, and stays there until you get off the gas; vs. with the Sensens, they're trying to resist the motion (like a shock should), but given some looseness in the system, setup an oscillation instead...

That would be for a Z3, but his Z3 has Bilsteins. The old Sachs and new Sensens are on his 318.

[JackDuggan]

I wonder, and am equally surprised that you like the old Sachs vs the new Sensens - not that I'm a fan of the Sensens - just would expect the Sachs to be pretty well shot at that mileage [I know that the ones that I pulled off my Z at 132k were totally gone]. But I'm wondering if something else isn't happening here. What I'm thinking is: that either the diff mount has at least one leg broken, or the box channel under the trunk has broken multiple welds. What I'm thinking is that with the shot Sachs: under acceleration whatever is loose is able to move to its extreme position, unopposed by the shocks, and stays there until you get off the gas; vs. with the Sensens, they're trying to resist the motion (like a shock should), but given some looseness in the system, setup an oscillation instead or as an artifact. It'll be interesting to see if after you install the new Sachs that this bouncing doesn't come back. If it does: check the diff mount and likewise, check the trunk floor for popped spot welds. I might be entirely wet on this... but something doesn't make sense. But again, will be interesting to see what the Sachs do.

It is like an oscillation, so I agree it could be something the old, soft shocks absorbed and I never noticed. I don't see anything really out of order under there, and I've been under it a few times recently; put in the new Sensens, took them out to put in new shock mounts, took them out again to re-install the old Sachs. We'll see next week. When it started I had all kinds of ideas; dual mass flywheel worn, guibo/giubo thing, rear bushings etc. Finally I just decided to put the old shocks back in and it went away. The new Sachs shocks should be here next Wednesday so I'll know then. Sorry to go on about this ti on the Z3 board, but they are quite similar underneath; although the rear shocks are different. This car has been pretty gently used and most of its miles are highway. I do want to keep it going though, because I use it to carry my bikes and kayak.

[gmushial]

That does not sound like something shocks could cause by themselves on a smooth pavement.
That would be for a Z3, but his Z3 has Bilsteins. The old Sachs and new Sensens are on his 318.

But isn't the tail of a Z3 an E30, a la 318ti, and the trunk of which suffers from the same malady as our Z3s? An interesting posting by someone by the name of R Forbes on repairing the spot welds of the 318ti trunk floor... http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?t=38044 ... I'm still interested to see what the new Sachs bring, even if the E30 tail is part of a 318ti. ;-)

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It is like an oscillation, so I agree it could be something the old, soft shocks absorbed and I never noticed. I don't see anything really out of order under there, and I've been under it a few times recently; put in the new Sensens, took them out to put in new shock mounts, took them out again to re-install the old Sachs. We'll see next week. When it started I had all kinds of ideas; dual mass flywheel worn, guibo/giubo thing, rear bushings etc. Finally I just decided to put the old shocks back in and it went away. The new Sachs shocks should be here next Wednesday so I'll know then. Sorry to go on about this ti on the Z3 board, but they are quite similar underneath; although the rear shocks are different. This car has been pretty gently used and most of its miles are highway. I do want to keep it going though, because I use it to carry my bikes and kayak.

Since your 318ti tail is an E30 (actually the whole ti is an E30), the same as our Z3's... so what you speak of is really close to our hearts :-)

[Vintage42]

The problem I was experiencing was low speed bouncing in rear... When I would start out the back of the car would bounce like a pogo stick...

It is like an oscillation...

I just don't see how shocks themselves (and new shocks, at that) can introduce such pogo stick bouncing and oscillations when starting off at low speed on smooth pavement. But tires could.

When I first got my Z3 it had a faint thumpiness and wiggling at low speed on smooth pavement, which at high speed became a harsh feel in the suspension and steering. I thought it had to be from the old original tires, which might have a wear pattern or a bad ply. With new tires, the car became smooth at high speed. And that was with the old Sachs, before I put the new KYBs on front and Sensens on rear. Could tires be your problem?

[dak911]

Would not using new upper mounts, the old parts seemed fine, make the shocks feel like they are "thumping" on small bumps...like the reflectors on the lane markings?
Z3 is a 96 with 133,000 miles, just changed to SENSEN front and rear

[JackDuggan]

I just don't see how shocks themselves (and new shocks, at that) can introduce such pogo stick bouncing and oscillations when starting off at low speed on smooth pavement. But tires could.

When I first got my Z3 it had a faint thumpiness and wiggling at low speed on smooth pavement, which at high speed became a harsh feel in the suspension and steering. I thought it had to be from the old original tires, which might have a wear pattern or a bad ply. With new tires, the car became smooth at high speed. And that was with the old Sachs, before I put the new KYBs on front and Sensens on rear. Could tires be your problem?

Believe me, at first I couldn't believe it could be the shocks either. But as you accelerate you have weight shift, worn shocks/springs have rear end squat because of this. It is my theory that these Sensens, because they were so stiff, were not absorbing, or not absorbing correctly, the weight shift from the acceleration from a standing start. It was more pronounced when starting off at a right turn too.

I'm not badmouthing Sensens, but we'll see if it is a case of any new shock causing this; because of other worn components, or if it is just that these particular shocks were too much for the car. If it continues with the new Sachs/Boge shocks I'll have to investigate further.

The rear suspension on the ti is from the E30 and appears almost identical to the Z3. That's one of the reasons I bought the Z3. I've had the ti for so long, and I liked the idea of having something I am familiar with.