Okay, i just finished my update/mod. First i did the fan delete. I changed the temp sensor to 80 degrees and added one bottle of water wetter, but did not change the thermostat.
With that alone the engine did seem to rev a bit quicker at take off, but otherwise no big change.
I then put on the Evosport pulleys for the power steering and water pump.
By the way make sure your power steering pump hasn't been updated to the e46 pump. I didn't and got the wrong pulley in my kit at first. I did not put on the alternator pulley. I decided it wasn't worth the effort.
Much quicker revs now and seem to puller harder and with quicker response.
Don't know about horsepower gains, but it sure feels more powerful.
On a side note: I modified my fan shroud by cutting slots on the engine side for the lower cooling hose to move in and out, so now for future work i don't have to disconnect that hose. Sorry no pics, but it's pretty obvious once you take a look at it.
Overall impression is: Quick and easy mod for not a lot of money for a totally subjective gain in fun.... Well worth it for me.
I did it on my first BMW, but none subsequent. I'm sure someone has mentioned before, but I hope you installed an electric fan in place of the clutch fan, since relying now on just the stock aux fan is risky... you're eliminating a redundancy serving as a fail-safe, and those aux fans are known for offing themselves every once in a while. Would hate to see an engine get scrapped if it were to die and you don't catch it before the head gasket pops and castings warp... which is what almost happened to me when an overheat condition happened to the first car.
BMW M3 - Ferrari 348 - Chevrolet Chevelle
Yeah i'm aware of the need for an additional electric fan. I figure i have some time while the weather is cooler...
Spal will be coming after recovering from xmas.
I had this mod too, with lower switch and lower thermostat, but mismatching proper temperatures might cause the engine to never run at its optimal temperature. I went back to original thermostat and switch, BUT with electric fan. Spal straight blade 2 inch thick.
At the track, FDM without an electric fan was NOT adequate at all. That's what caused me to add electric fan and go to normal thermostat and switch.
-Abel
- E36 328is ~210-220whp: Lots of Mods.
- 2000 Z3: Many Mods.
- 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual 47-50mpg
- 1999 S52 Estoril M Coupe
- 2014 328d Wagon, self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs
- 2019 M2 Competition, self-tuned, 504whp
- 2016 Mini Cooper S
Leaving the stock fan is risky, too, since they are known to let loose and cut hoses and damage radiators. Several have also said they got dents in their hood from it.
Similar here, have run hard on 100+ degree days with no fan and no problems.
Are you saying that while you on the track, you feel the fan is cooling your engine? Or are you talking about "in the pit" when your car isn't moving? I always thought the car cutting through the air was more airflow than the fan could produce. With proper shrouding I would think you'd have plenty of airflow at medium and high speeds.
My "track" time has only been autocross, but I figured that's worse than road course because you spend so much time with the car sitting still.
I have never seen the removal of the fan as a mod...To me, it's taking the spare tire out for weight reduction as a "mod" - until you get a flat! Not so smart on the road...
Electric fans are fine, but just as efficient as the mechanical one...
Change the radiator to aluminum, replace the water pump with a Stewart, exhaust, intake, tune, power pulleys...
After the track runs, you need a fan to cool the motor before shutting it down...
A fan delete takes away that option...
Insufficient funds...
Its more like replacing the stock spare tire with a lightweight spacesaver spare tire... The mod done correctly warrants replacing the mechanical fan with an electric unit
Not sure how you can say they are just as efficient. If an electrical fan moves as much air as the mechanical fan, then installing the electrical fan was a HUGE advantage because it is not sapping engine power. The mechanical fan is connected directly to engine, more rotational mass the engine has to spin and it has to engage fan clutch. This hurts throttle response and instead of some of the engine's power going to the wheels to accelerate the car, it has to go to the fan to spin it.
Electric fan mod does exactly the same as what you call "power pulleys"
Correctly they are known as underdrive pulleys because they are not creating power, they are freeing up power the engine is already making by allowing it to spin accessories through less rotations which amounts to less accessory load on engine = more of it's power goes to wheels instead of spinning pulleys or spinning mechanical fans.
Last edited by BimmerBreaker; 12-01-2012 at 01:17 PM.
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Funny, in many decades of working with SCCA road racing cars, the only car that had a fan of any sort was required to have it by the rules; a SSB Saab. Overheating was never a problem before, during, or after.
/.randy
I know that, I installed them and I do understand the principles, but thank-you for demonstrating your knowledge!
The fan is important for any street car, electric or mechanical, either way you need one.
AS far as the SCCA, well if you have car dedicated to that - fine. we're talking street cars here with occasional short track, parking lot use - not much chance her for the cool down laps..
Insufficient funds...
Are you saying a properly pm'd fan will just explode and ruin shit or one that is vastly neglected and brittle ?
Also are there any dynos showing improvement , or is it just butt dyno ?
Sent from the palm of my hands by scientific means
Last edited by yash; 12-01-2012 at 01:42 PM.
"My man did you simply get carried away with your dramatic gesture or were you pointing your water gun at me with lethal intentions ?"
From what I have read, it's not the fan itself, but the fan clutch. I never actually had a problem with mine; honestly I started getting worried when I joined these forums. My car had the original water pump and over 160K miles when I got it. So based on bf.c lore, the thing should have exploded 3 times by now. I removed the fan because I was changing the water pump, pulleys, hoses, belts etc, and having read so many horror stories about the fan clutch, I didn't want to replace a weak component with a new version of the weak component when I could just avoid it altogether. Pretty much bf.c induced paranoia made me do it!
I was really nervous about not putting a 2nd electric fan in there but after doing autox days in 100+ degrees I became more confident that it was not going to overheat.
I didn't remove mine for power. I figure there is probably some amount of power gain, but surely it is so tiny that it would be imperceptible without a dyno. Seems like in one of these FDM threads someone posted some dynos and it was 1-3 hp difference; I don't think a butt dyno is calibrated to detect that.
Last edited by Scarceas; 12-01-2012 at 01:54 PM.
I had the fan blade brake off and damage the fins of the rad. It was my own fault for not doing preventative maintenance. All the parts over years take a lot of abuse from temperature changes and just age.
There horsepower gain is negligible, since at speed, where you are actually generating the horsepower, the fan isn't "dragging" anyway, it's being cooled by the airflow over the motor.
Parts don't last forever, so be awaer of the risk. Water pump failure can be severely expensive - but may not happen at all...
I switched to the Stewart water pump. Full staineless steel impeller and casing with better bearings for longevity - even the car seemed to be pleased with that!
Insufficient funds...
'exploding fan' is not a fault in the fan itself. The usual root cause is traced to worn or failed engine mounts allowing the motor to shift enough where the fan makes contact with nearby bits and shatters. A popular E36 upgrade is switching to the euro diesel fan which has a protective ring around the outer circumference of the blades.
BMW M3 - Ferrari 348 - Chevrolet Chevelle
Change the thermostat. Flush your cooling system, water wetter is no good. That's coming from a guy who used to swear by it. It will gunk up your cooling system in no time, even with BMW coolant.
Electric fan is the best option.
///
No not in the pit, those temperatures were fine.
I ran MSR Houston summer of 2011 in August, in about 100 degree weather, 30 minute continuous sessions with the 328is.
I had done the cooling system that morning: all aluminum radiator, aluminum thermostat housing, flush, new coolant, and thorough bleed.
I had previously installed the www.understeer.net kit with lower thermostat and radiator switch; no electric fan besides the aux fan.
In the pits or during the drive to the track (~60 miles), everything was fine. I rechecked the cooling system when we got there. Then on the 3rd session around, at about 3:30 - 4:00 PM, I pushed the E36 harder, for a full 30 minute session, of complete full throttle, full brakes, the whole stress test and all. (I was having fun chasing and passing a Dodge charger SRT8 and some S2000's)
After the clearing some space, I looked at the stock gauge (i know it's not accurate) but it was about 10 (angular) degrees PAST vertical towards the hot side, but hasn't gotten to the next white mark. I didn't overheat, but I found it odd to move up that much. I let off from the hard driving, and it went back to center within 30 seconds.
Now I know that the gauge isn't accurate as its WARNING threshold comes when much hotter.
I also know that a freshly bled system (same day) can also point to possible minor air in system, however when I let off it cooled.
Also the aux fan was running in high mode after each session.
I was too "lazy" (and hot) to pull out the laptop and diagnosing tools (INPA) to read the actual temperature; maybe I should have.
So that's what convinced me to buy and electric fan (Spal) for $60 and put original thermostat and switch back in. This year I repeated another MSR run with this set up and it gave me no apparent trouble at all.
For the street, it's probably fine. When it gets pushed hard for longer periods at a time, I don't think its adequate.
Last edited by 328 Power 04; 12-02-2012 at 02:02 PM.
-Abel
- E36 328is ~210-220whp: Lots of Mods.
- 2000 Z3: Many Mods.
- 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual 47-50mpg
- 1999 S52 Estoril M Coupe
- 2014 328d Wagon, self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs
- 2019 M2 Competition, self-tuned, 504whp
- 2016 Mini Cooper S
I don't think you can go wrong putting the 2nd electric fan in there. I have a saying, "You can't argue with results." I just find it odd that the fan would make a difference at speed. I have read of some track cars having some custom "shrouding", aka plugging up areas to force the air over the radiator, and that resolving their heat issues on the track. Sounds like your setup is fine but you might also want to consider something like that to make sure the air flow is going exactly where you want it.
Fan delete and underdrive pulleys were worth about +5-7whp and +2-5whp respectively. Car feels peppier, and I have an added piece of mind. I wouldn't drop the $250 on the pulleys vs an intake, Shark or Headers, but I don't mind them.
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