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Thread: Cooling System Bleeding

  1. #101
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
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    Manchester, UK
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    Nov 2000 BMW E39 530i
    Quote Originally Posted by Devi22 View Post
    Gave this a shot. I removed the 2 bleed screws and the expansion cap, and when I turned the heat on coolant spewed out of the thermostat (almost hitting the hood) bleed hole and continued to spurt out every 10 seconds or so but not as high. Is this normal?
    This is exactly what happened to me when I used this technique this morning.

    I removed the expansion tank cap and both bleed screws, then turned the ignition to position one to set the heaters to full with the fan turned off - as soon as the key is in position 1 water started to be forced out of the bleed screws.

    My car is a November 2000 E39 530i SE, facelift model. I'm unsure of the exact options list.

    I simply left the ignition off (with the heater set to full heat and fan in low) and did the coolant fill as per the instructions.

    I did end up with a fully topped up and nicely bled system - unfortunately I've located a leak on my rad where the top hose connects to the rad, but that's a story for another thread!

    Oh, I actually hit the roof with the coolant, so I think I won? Do I get a prize? :P

  2. #102
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    Sep 2011
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    Glasgow, UK
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    1998 BMW 520i
    Hi sorry to hijack but this is my first post, I too have had severe problems with overheating on my 520i over the past week, on reading your posts decided to give it a go myself instead of paying a mechanic in glasgow which would have cost me a fortune! I noticed that the engine intake & additional waterpump hose had previously at some point halved in two and a very very bad patch up job was done (this was NOT done by me), i got a new hose and replaced this, then following your instructions on here i bled the whole system this afternoon, took the car for a run along the motorway and it is now running sweet ! So many thanks for your instructions on here they are that good even a girl can follow them!! (not saying girls cant do these things as i have just proved WE CAN lol)

  3. #103
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    Mar 2005
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    Charleston, SC
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    99 528iT
    I used the bleeding procedure on the first page yesterday.
    I forgot to put the key to the "run" position when I was adding coolant mixture at first. Once I did switch the key, I got quite a bit of fluid out of the thermostat bleeder, so once I closed that one I just continued the process. After a 25 minute drive and 2 hour cool down, I had to add about another 6 ounces to the expansion tank to bring it up to the cold level.

    All in all, much easier than the last time I bled a BMW cooling system.
    :: 1999 BMW 528iT ::
    LS3 / T56 swapped

  4. #104
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    Sep 2007
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    Staten Island, NY
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    1998 BMW 528i
    I use NNY528I bleeding procedure whenever and whatever I do that requires bleeding... with only one addition. Once I put second bleed screw on expansion tank I suck excess coolant to the KALT mark.
    BMW CCA 434493

  5. #105
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    sharpsburg, GA
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    My Cars
    2000 BMW 528i

    Angry Cooling system

    My 2000 528i 170K, car over heats when driving, I have bleed the system twice as mentioned here. Under the oil cap looks a lttle rusty but on the oil dipstick it looks good, ( NOT MILKY), I stop the car once it goes past half way then let it cool. I noticed that even when hot the bottom radiator hose does not even get hot but the top one is way hot.
    My question, could it be a blown head gasket or does it sound like a water pump not pumping or thermostat not opening? Please help.
    Thanks!
    Scott

  6. #106
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    1998 BMW 528i
    Quote Originally Posted by scottymx View Post
    My 2000 528i 170K, car over heats when driving, I have bleed the system twice as mentioned here. Under the oil cap looks a lttle rusty but on the oil dipstick it looks good, ( NOT MILKY), I stop the car once it goes past half way then let it cool. I noticed that even when hot the bottom radiator hose does not even get hot but the top one is way hot.
    My question, could it be a blown head gasket or does it sound like a water pump not pumping or thermostat not opening? Please help.
    Thanks!
    Scott
    Could be anything, but if you're not sure when it was done I would suggest starting with replacing Thermostat + Thermostat Housing (or atleast new Housing gasket) and Water Pump.

    Please dont drive when your E39 overheats!
    Last edited by siny528i; 01-26-2012 at 09:45 PM.
    BMW CCA 434493

  7. #107
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    2000 BMW 528i

    Head gasket

    But how do i make sure it's not my head gasket first?
    Thanks

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottymx View Post
    But how do i make sure it's not my head gasket first?
    Thanks
    Scott,
    I dont want to mess up this thread because its dedicated to Cooling System Bleeding. Now, since you did bleed it and still have a problem my suggestion would be to start your own thread dedicated to your most specific problem, like OVERHEAT: Head Gasket? I am pretty sure there will be replies whos gonna help you with your Head Gasket.

    I still think you should start with Thermostat, Thermostat Housing and Water Pump.

    siny528i
    Last edited by siny528i; 01-28-2012 at 03:06 PM.
    BMW CCA 434493

  9. #109
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    2000 BMW 540i M sport
    i had a question and it has really bothered me. my 2000 540i does not overheat and sit at 12 all day. now when i go to turn my A/C on ( Snow flake button) it says check coolent level 20 seconds after i turn it on. i check it when it cools down and the level shoots all the way up. i am not sure what this means. is there air in the system, or is it something worse. please help. i am kinda new so i am trying to learn. thanks

  10. #110
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    Cave Creek, AZ
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    1993 850ci 2001 M5 / Z3M
    One thing to add for the I-6 water pump replacement: no need to pry pump from engine, 2 m6 bolts thread into the holes on the pump body at the 3 and 9 o'clock position. These bolts will press the pump off of the engine as you tighten the bolts.

    Hope this helps.
    Regards,

    Brian
    Cave Creek, AZ

  11. #111
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    Dec 2011
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    Florida
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    2003 530i
    Quote Originally Posted by bdiefAZ View Post
    One thing to add for the I-6 water pump replacement: no need to pry pump from engine, 2 m6 bolts thread into the holes on the pump body at the 3 and 9 o'clock position. These bolts will press the pump off of the engine as you tighten the bolts.

    Hope this helps.
    Yup. Just did that yesterday when I replaced mine.

  12. #112
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    '00 330Ci, '07 350Z

    Thumbs up

    Thank you for clarifying this NNY528i it seems to have been clouded in mystery & myth for a long time, one person saying this another advising something else (even in this thread), hence why ive never DIYed anything on the my E46 that required a coolant refill and bleed.

    But now I'm gonna replace my water pump on friday, before my 2000 mile return trip to the north of Italy this weekend.

    But there's one thing i need to clarify, when you switch on the fan/heater to Max heat but low speed, are you meant to switch the Air conditioning on??
    Last edited by Oz Striker; 10-02-2012 at 05:19 PM.
    E46 330Ci: Umnitza P46 Headlights + Custom LED Halos; Eagle Eye smoked taillights; LEDs fogs; M3 bonnet conversion; M-Sport Front & Rear bumper; Replica M3 mirrors: Rear lip spoiler; Carbon fibre strut brace; Aluminium rear strut brace; H&R Sway Bars; LSD 3.15 ratio; F30 front & rear Brembo BBK conversion; ECU Remap; F32 Front Seats; GROM Audio

  13. #113
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    Brooklyn
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    98 528i
    I have used the method in this thread with success every time I have used it(5X). Very good thread. Much thanks to NNY528I.

    Follow the steps accordingly and you shouldn't have any issues. Always make sure your hose clamps are snug so seepage does not occur. Do not over tighten bleeder screws. FWIW I have switched to a brass bleeder screw by the expansion tank. Not sure what benefit will occur in the long run other then it looks shiny and new. My plastic ones had no issues and I believe them to be original as was my 14 year old expansion tank that I have changed.

    Currently running an aluminum thermostat housing for 6k miles with no issues. I have found out that the brass bleeder screws are not compatible with the aluminum housing. The bleeder screws that originally come with the aluminum housing are longer and have a more robust o-ring to prevent coolant from exiting.
    Last edited by bkgreene39; 10-09-2012 at 09:50 PM.

  14. #114
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    2003 525i Sport
    2003 525iA leaving the key off keeps the coolant from squirting out the t-sat bleeder. I was just double checking it was done right, just before I got the car the radiator was replaced. I've driven 300 miles haven't had an issue heater on and off but since I've read that "it can just happen" thought I check for myself.

    Thanks for the thread.

  15. #115
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    Canada
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    2006 BMW X5
    i open my heat when my temp gauge reach middle, but the problem is my temps gauge drop to cold when i open heat and then come back to mid... i got my car coolant bleed 2 timie by the mecanics and the prob still here.... and my level coolant is good whats the problem ?

  16. #116
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    Oct 2012
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    96 E36 Vert 03 E39 M5
    I need help with this as well. I have a 528 with a Rest button on the climate controls. Reading through the forums it seems after the initial top off there is something that needs to be done with the key off to make sure the Residual Heat loop is bleed. Is there a procedure for this as my car appeared to be fully bled but of course an evil pocket seemed to appear. Will try the Ramp bleed procedure tonight.

  17. #117
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    1997 BMW 528i
    Hi guys,

    Newbie to this forum, but joined to see if you could help me out! Noticed coolant leaking from a bleed valve, so I'm wondering if anyone could let me know how I should go about fixing/replacing this part. Appreciate any help in advanced!


  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by cnn View Post
    Nothing new, but the cooling system on the 6-cylinder engines has baffled me for a long time, why it is too difficult to bleed the air out etc.

    1. Take a minute to study the design of the E39 cooling system (see figure above for M54 engine).

    2. After some work in the cooling system is performed, re-filling the system is tricky because of the goofy design.

    I just took another detailed look at my car again and here is the trick.

    - Normally (if you haven't done any work on the cooling system at all) you want coolant at "KALT" level (or COLD level in the morning), but during re-filling, don't worry about it for now.

    - Look at the thermostat housing picture provided by NNY528i above (1st post), there is a small hole connecting the right and left sides of the thermostat housing. This hole allows air trapped in the lower radiator hose to travel through the hole to the driver's side to be bled out the bleeder screw. (See GREEN arrow).

    - If your car is on level ground, look carefully, you will see that the thermostat housing bleed screw (#1) is located at the same level as the reservoir neck and not at the "KALT" mark on the reservoir.

    - Once you understand the above design, re-filling is easy.

    a- Do it like NNY528i says. But I will add some tips...

    b- Be patient and be patient, the hole connecting the (R) and (L) sides the thermostat housing is very small, maybe 1/16" or something like it. So air bubbles move through it very slowly.

    c- Fill coolant up to the reservoir neck until it stops filling. Now some air is trapped in the lower radiator hose. Give it a good 5 minutes to settle there. Fill again until coolant fills to the reservoir neck, which is about 3 inches above "KALT" mark.

    In the mean time, listen to some music and drink some beer...

    d- Now open the thermostat housing 1 full turn (it takes 5 full turns to remove the bleed screw, so 1 full turn is all you need), air will come out slowly because the hole in the tstat housing is very small. When coolant comes out, close the bleed screw.

    e- Don't start the engine yet, repeat steps a through d a few times (another beer won't hurt...) until you are sure all air is bled out of the bleed screw.

    f- For the 1st fill, if coolant is at the reservoir neck, then it is OK, air trapped in the engine will be expelled out when you run the engine. It will eventually settle down to "KALT" level anyway. If you are worried, then use a turkey baster to remove a bit coolant so it sits just below the reservoir neck prior to running the engine.

    This should do it. Be patient and be patient when filling the cooling system!!!

    4. The above little trick will help get rid of air outside of the engine.
    Air Lock (air trapped inside the engine behind the thermostat) is another issue. Do a search.

    Great!

    1973 Clubman GT * 2008 BMW X1 * 2004 BMW 325i Touring* 2000 Honda S2000 *
    2016 Mazda Mx5 Club Sport

  19. #119
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    May 2013
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    Charleston, SC
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    2000 528i
    is the DIY for flushing the old coolant out?

  20. #120
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    Nov 2013
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    Nj USA
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    E39 02 530i

    Problem bleeding the system

    Hi

    i've tried several times to bleed the system as mentioned here, but every time when I'm opening the cap and bleeders and pouring water as the heater on and the engine off, the water coming out of the thermo bleeder as a bursts and then stop and then huge burst again. So I losing all of the fluid but cannot bleed all of the air. I finished 2 gallons this way and still have air trapped. What is wrong??? Please help.


    Quote Originally Posted by NNY528I View Post
    *Edited 7/31/11 to include TIS references and consolidate information from with the discussion.

    Here is a complete DIY for Bleeding the E39 cooling system using the proper BMW/Bentley Procedure. This procedure is based on the following BMW TIS documents

    TIS 17 00 Instructions for working on cooling system
    http://tis.spaghetticoder.org/s/view.pl?1/04/35/64

    TIS 17 00 005 Draining and topping up coolant
    http://tis.spaghetticoder.org/s/view.pl?1/02/26/14

    TIS 17 00 039 Bleeding cooling system and checking for leaks
    http://tis.spaghetticoder.org/s/view.pl?1/01/34/82

    The V8 bleeding procedure is essentially identical except that there is no Thermostat cover bleeder screw, all bleeding is done at the expansion tank bleeder screw.

    A number if Forum members with minimal auto repair experience have used this procedure succesfully on the first try to bleed their cooling systems after multiple attempts using other procedures, hopefully they will choose to share their experiences using this very simple and straightforward procedure.

    Please take a few moments to provide any comments on this procedure or to share your experiences using it, Thanks.


    First a couple of general notes;

    - If you have removed the Water pump then you will need about 1.0 to 1.25 gallons of mixed coolant to refill and bleed the system

    - If you have removed the Water pump AND the Lower radiator hose then you will need about 1.5 to 1.75 gallons of mixed coolant to refill and bleed the system

    - If you have changed the thermostat you will need about .5 to .75 gallons of mixed coolant to refill and bleed the system

    - There is no need to drill a hole in your new thermostat, see video and photos below showing the bleed hole in the thermostat cover.

    - Never open a bleeder screw or the expansion tank when the engine is hot, this is the same as having a crack in your radiator and does not aid in the proper bleeding of the system

    - Take care when tightening the bleeder screws as the OEM screws are plastic and can be stripped or damaged easily.

    - Jacking or inclining the front of the car 6 inches or more will speed up the process but is not required.

    - Be sure to use a 50/50 mix of BMW coolant and distilled water(available at Walmart) All references to coolant in this procedure refer to a 50/50 mix.

    - Various discussions on the efficacy of running the engine to complete the bleeding of the system have presented a lot of confusing information. Certain equipment configurations may require that the engine be run to purge air from the heater core, however there is no evidence that the engine needs to be hot or even warm to do this. Simply running the engine for a minute or two after completing the static bleed procedure presented here is all that is required and this is covered during the drive and cool portion of this procedure and should not normally need to be done as a separate step. This may be equivalent to what others have called a warm bleed procedure however I do not know if that is what they are referring to at this point. There is no reason, value or technical justification in opening the bleeder screws when the engine is at normal operating temperature while there exist a number of potential issues in doing so. There are no recommendations to do so in any BMW publication or any other reputable professional source thus I do not condone or recommend that this ever be done as this is essentially creating a controlled failure of the cooling system allowing boiling of the coolant in the engine which at best causes potential for air to be drawn back into the system and at worst could lead to damage equivalent to that which occurs from a component failure within the system. It should be noted also that this is expressly covered in BMW TIS 17 00 ;

    "Important!
    Open cooling system only when it has cooled down.
    Opening the cooling system while hot can result in air entering the system.
    This can cause overheating with permanent damage to the engine. "

    - Contrary to information presented in some other procedures and in this thread the bleeder screws in the thermostat cover and in the expansion tank ARE NOT at the same elevation. The Expansion tank screw is 1 to 2 inches higher than the thermostat cover screw as can be seen clearly in the photos below.


    - See end notes for information on Bleeder hole in thermostat housing bleeder screw elevations and aluminum thermostat cover.


    Written Procedure;


    1) With car cold turn on key to run position(do not start the car), set HVAC system to 90 degrees and fan on low.

    2) Remove coolant pressure cap on expansion tank and the bleeder screws from thermostat cover and expansion tank.

    3) Begin to pour coolant into expansion tank keeping level near top of tank until air free coolant flows from thermostat cover bleeder hole, install screw and close bleeder.

    4) Continue to fill expansion tank until air free coolant flows from the bleeder screw on the expansion tank, you will need to keep the expansion tank filled to top to complete this step. When no more bubbles then install and close the bleeder.

    5) Fill coolant in expansion tank to near top of tank then install the filler cap.

    6) Now take the car for a drive and get it warmed up to temperature, at least a 10 min drive, try to get some higher RPM driving in as well(like a short section of open road)

    7) Park car and let cool to ambient temperature(at least a couple of hours) then check the level of coolant in the expansion tank. If it is empty then repeat the bleeding process above, if after a repeat it is still empty then you have a bigger issue such as a leak or a damaged head gasket. If the level is low then top up to the full cold level indicated on the tank or slightly above.

    8) Monitor coolant level for several drive cycles adding coolant as needed to maintain the full cold level, coolant level should stabilize in one or two drive cycles.


    Video of Procedure:

    Note, this was filmed following a water pump and Radiator hose installation so about 1 gallon of coolant mix had been added prior to starting the recording, the procedure is identical regardless of amount of coolant that is required to be added.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6BeQozdOYc[/ame]

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMkCmJ3tPkQ[/ame]


    End Notes:


    Thermostat design and function
    (or why the system cannot become air locked even though certain people are for some reason convinced it can)

    air cannot get trapped in the block as the area behind the thermostat is directly connected through an open passage to the upper radiator hose. the main exit for the coolant flow passes behind the thermostat and into the upper radiator hose passage with no restriction whatsoever. The air cant get trapped back there it will escape into the radiator(past the thermostat cover bleed screw on its way.



    Additional thoughts on system design by benemorious

    If you guys don't mind an outsider (m50 e36) getting involved (and bumping a thread, no less) I have some things to say on the matter. Us e36 guys are also struggling with the myth of a difficult to bleed cooling system. For what it's worth, I've studied my cooling system (it looks just like yours(well, the parts relevant to air lock at least)) in great detail and after reading this thread I must say I do agree with NNY528I. Our observations and the conclusions we drew from them appear to be congruent. Never mind what any expert mechanic has to say, direct observations are always preferable.

    What is disputed is whether air can become trapped inside the block/head ("behind the thermostat"). The correct response to such a inquiry is repeated many times in this thread in many different ways. Air in the block/head cannot become trapped anywhere because there is no thermostat or anything else to prevent it from flowing freely out the top radiator hose and relieving itself via the bleeder screw or expansion tank.

    The key points to catch are that the cooling system features a thermostat located at the bottom radiator hose rather than the conventional top hose location, and that air inside the block is therefore allowed to flow freely out the top radiator hose, unobstructed by the thermostat as in other (air-lock prone) designs. If you don't wish to read any further, you don't have to. That information is sufficient to settle the dispute if you accept it. It has been stated over and over many times, but either overlooked or ignored outright in every case.

    Quote:
    *******> ********> Originally Posted by cnn
    For those who wonder about the coolant passages of an M52 engine...

    As I already mentioned in this cooling overhaul for my 1998 528i:
    http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/199986

    -------
    I recently changed my Tstat seals and for my curiosity, decided to probe the coolant passages using electrical wire and my finger!
    I confirmed the coolant flow as follows:
    - The WP circulates fluid from solid orange line from engine and solid blue line from UPPER Radiator Hose ---> dotted blue line (behind the thermostat) into the WP itself. This brings cool fluid into engine.
    - Then hot coolant builds up in the engine block and comes out in the dotted purple line ---> solid purple line into the upper rad hose.

    - There is no direct connection between #1 (blue) and #2 (purple) areas.
    - So air trap behind the tstat is a distinct possibility in the M52 engine.

    Just some tidbit about the M52 engine for those with curious mind...



    There is an oversight here which makes all the difference. It has been stated already, but I will attempt to restate it with more verbosity.

    While there is no direct connection between blue and purple, there IS a direct connection inside the head between the ORANGE hole and the PURPLE hole. They are effectively the same hole. They both contain hot water from the head ready to be either recirculated directly when the engine is cold (the closed dual-action thermostat prevents water from passing from the blue line to the dotted blue line, while permitting water to pass from orange to dotted blue) or cooled by the radiator first and then recirculated if the engine is hot (the open thermostat blocks water from going from orange to dotted blue while allowing it to go from blue to dotted blue - water from orange can then only come out purple.) There is no difference between saying "air trapped in the block/head" and "air trapped behind the thermostat" and "air trapped in the orange/purple area." The area behind the thermostat is the orange/purple area, and the orange/purple area is the top opening to the coolant passages of the head and therefore block.

    Here's the significance of that:

    Because of the connection between the orange hole (from head/block passages) and the purple hole (output to radiator/bleed screw) it is not possible for air to become trapped inside the block/head AKA behind the thermostat since it is not stopped by the thermostat and can come freely out the purple hole. To support the theory that the engine can become air locked, the assumption is made that air in the head/block has no escape route other than the orange hole behind the thermostat. This is not the case. Rather, the air is also free to come out the purple hole, and this is what it does.

    BMW has chosen to remove the thermostat from the airlock-prone top hose position and place it in the airlock-free bottom hose position. A very wise move, for even while filling a completely dry block, all the air is guaranteed to come out the top radiator hose and be released via the expansion tank or bleeder screw.


    Aluminum Thermostat Housing,

    Made by URO, purchased through Pelican for about $12

    Unit is decently made and includes a gasket and metal bleeder screw, however there was some casting issues including some flash and a heavy shoulder in the upper radiator hose port that needed to be dremeled out of the housing.

    Installed

    Bleeder hole




    Bleeder Screw elevation comparison


    Side of car body showing car is sitting level with ground.


    Note engine is inclined in the car

    Thermostat cover bleeder screw at 5 inches



    Expansion tank bleeder screw at about 4 inches even though the reference level slopes upward towards the radiator thus if they were at the same level a measurement of at least 5.5 to 6 inches would be indicated however clearly the expansion tank is higher than the thermostat cover.




  21. #121
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
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    Nj USA
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    E39 02 530i
    Hi
    I'm trying to bleed my system, but when the cap and bleeders open and pouring water, all of the water flying out as a huge bursts every few seconds out of the thermo bleeder even though the engine off and heat on 90 and low.
    What is wrong???

  22. #122
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    Jun 2012
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    Missoula, MT, US
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    2000 528i / 1995 525i
    Used this method to bleed the system on my 00 528iT. Worked flawlessly. Had to cap it off about another 4oz after a test drive. So happy. Thanks!

  23. #123
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    //M5s, 4.8iS , Z32TT
    You have latent heat pump. Do not turn the key on, don't need to have heat set at 90F and 1 bar on fan speed.OP answer it here http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...8#post19634188
    Last edited by shogun; 04-07-2019 at 10:08 AM. Reason: unnessary quotes removed

    2000 Dinan S1 //M5 (my DD) --------------- 06 DINAN E53 4.8iS (wife's) -------------- 90 Straman Z32TT (my pride & joy)

    Gone, but not forgotten: 01 E39 M5, 01 E53 3.0i, 01 525i Sport, 03 DINAN 540i MSport and 91 Z32 TwinTurbo

  24. #124
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    E39 540
    I have a 01 540

    do i use the static bleeding?

    just top up with bleeding screw open?

  25. #125
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    Mar 2014
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    athens
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    '99 528i
    Hi guys,
    Newb to the site, but i have a 99 528i and i have tried to bleed the system a dozen times and it still overheats. i have done a complete overhaul of the cooling system. It runs fine for ten minutes then starts to go past 12 o'clock. if i stop the car turn it off and turn on heat at full blast it cools back down to normal. no leaks anywhere, any ideas?

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