Timing chain replacement E38

[cmccleary]

annapolis bmw quoted me $8,000 to replace the timing chain and timing chain guide. the teflon-like material on the guide broke off and is in the oil pan. what is a reasonable cost for this repair? has anyone heard of this problem?

[02325]

do a search, there is a couple of DIY on here, so you can see pics. that seems l;ittle extreme to me, but what is their labor rate? it is not hard, but very time consuming.

[heifetz17]

labor to remove the lower timing cover alone is about 22 hours. That's almost $3000 in labor right there!

Then you have the extra labor to remove the chains and guides and retime the engine with the new parts on.

Then you have the cost for the parts.

That estimate is probably a little high, but this is by no means an inexpensive or "quick" repair

[bstar]

Isn't this the 2nd thread for the same fix? What was the recommended course of action before?????????

[Edwin NL]

Pics I borrowed



The quote is way to high!

To remove all these parts is about 4 hours

For 8k you can have a complete engine overhaul.

[heifetz17]

Pics I borrowed



The quote is way to high!

To remove all these parts is about 4 hours

For 8k you can have a complete engine overhaul.

Yes, it'd be much cheaper to do it yourself!

22 hours vs 4 hours is a no brainer!

[Edwin NL]

Not bitching here but we all know BMW time, even for the VCG TIS quotes 5 hours?!?

[sick90]

[QUOTE=Edwin NL;18254580]Pics I borrowed




My brother's 99 740IL broke all the plastic on the guides are in the oil pan and I was wondering if there are any timing marks.

Please help.

[Edwin NL]

If you have TIS it shows you all the timing spots and tools needed to do the job

[dazednkenfused]

Don't go to the dealer, find an independent BMW specialty repair shop. It'll be way less. Its definately one of those things though where you'd want to replace anything and everything since you'll be doing this major service while you're in this deep with the motor.

[2001bmw]

i had my guides done. If you have the special tools and the time you can do it.

you will also need some knowledge on how to set the engine timing back up. if you removed the coil packs you may want to somehow avoid them being out of the car too long. They are not cheap at $100 buck each if you need to replace them. Easy but not cheap.

it took them a bit (hours) because you practically need to remove all the parts from the front of the engine. it's a good time to have them look at the water pump and belts to see if they need replacing. you might want to find a reputable shop. if you are in Dallas i can send you a couple that i know will do a very good job!

[cazal740i]

if you removed the coil packs you may want to somehow avoid them being out of the car too long. They are not cheap at $100 buck each if you need to replace them. Easy but not cheap.

b!

Huh?
Coil packs same as bremi plugs? I had them in my trunk and out of my car for 2 weeks due to my oil leak back in July..Had to remove the crankshaft seal..Put everything back together and Bremi plugs were fine

[01sport]

cmccleary,
Here in LA I have hear quotes for half that. 30 hours labor and 500 parts. As what mileage did your timing guides fail?

[Mark@EAC]

parts list:
http://content.eactuning.com/index.p...ists&Itemid=57
tool rental:
https://eactuning.com/bmw-m62-m62tu-...ols-p-631.html

This is a very common problem with these engines as they age. With the right tools, some past DIY experience and a bentley or TIS to reference it can be done on your own. We have a waiting list for the tool rental, if you want to get on it call in and leave your info with us and we contact you when it is available.

[lawdog8234]

Just did this to my 99 740il! It takes a little time and a special timing tool set to complete. Without the timing tools it would be almost impossible. If you are thinking about doing it youself I suggest replacing any o rings that you encounter to avoid any leaks when you replace everything. My biggest problem was the small retainer clips that attached the fuel nozzles to the wiring harness. They are located under the fuel rail. My cost with the tools was around $1700.00 and I purchased a new torque wrench and a Bentley service book.

[LasVegasE38]

Pics I borrowed



The quote is way to high!

To remove all these parts is about 4 hours

For 8k you can have a complete engine overhaul.

I was going to say....$8K???? That sounds ridiculous!! You could probably order a rebuilt motor from VAC for that!

[stswartz]

I'm having trouble getting the cover to turn loose. i havent taken the water cooled alternator out or done anything to it. Looks like it comes out in one piece i going to take the crank seal off next to see if that will give some room to get the cover to move

[Sirstopher]

My front cover on the drivers side is leaking oil, repair shop told me that it would take 6 hrs to replace the cover, around 700.00 parts and labor.

[bigblackseven]

Sirstopher and Stschwartz are talking about two different things (I think) than this thread pertains. The Upper timing covers are probably about 6 hrs to remove and replace for the gasket.
Stschwartz, if you are having trouble removing the lower timing cover, three things that will hold you back more than anything are: alternator, front crank seal, 6 bolts vertically oriented in the front wall of the lower cover. They go UP from inside the lower oil pan. Drain oil, remove level sensor, remove pan, access & remove 6x10mm bolts.
But do them in that order: alt, seal, bolts, because you need the cover to be held firmly when you try to hook and pull out the front shaft seal.
One member recently did this with a VERY thorough how-to and lots of pics. Find it in the search.

Oh, and if you do try this job, or any job that might invite removal of the intake manifold, it is NOT necessary to remove the fuel rail from the manifold! I just realized this after doing my third intake overhaul on M62 engines. Leave it bolted on (having removed the brackets for upper engine cover), disconnect fuel soft hose, and lift the manifold and fuel rail off together. This way, you dont have to worry about seating the injectors properly.

Yes, the little injector plug metal clips are a B****. No way around that. The E65 N62 motor refined that design wonderfully- one of the few things I like on that car.

Anyway, that being said, there is really no need to pull the manifold for timing chain work. Just loosen the two water pipes from the water pump by rotating gently with your hand or a pair of channel locks. Leave the pipes in place when you pull the pump, and let them sit on the valley while you work. They may protrude, but can be worked around.

That is the fastest way. The BEST way involves pulling the manifold and replacing all gaskets, OSV, breather pipe, and also replacing the valley pan while you're there. Fast is one thing- good sometimes. But for a car I really care about, I would go with "best" over "fast" when it comes to process.

Unless your o-rings are totally shot (the ones in the rear accumulator pipe), they should still seal when bled and pressure tested. If not, you can dig into manifold removal, and not waste much time, as there are no efficiencies in performing both jobs together as opposed to separately. Do replace the o-rings in the water pump when you have the chance, even if they aren't leaking.

Whatever you do, don't pay eight grand. That is an insult to your intelligence. I bought my whole car for five grand...in decent shape too.

[01sport]

stswartz,
Did you get the lower timing cover off? I suggest you remove the water cooled alternator. It adds considerable weight to an already awkward piece of aluminum. It will be much easier especially when reinstalling. Can you confirm the size torx socket needed for the torx bolt at the bottom of the v-guide slightly to the driver's side behind the chain? I think it is E10 or E12. I recently helped a friend replace his Timing chain etc. We had a little difficulty reinstalling this particular torx bolt as it is behind the chain. I want to purchase a 1/4" drive universal torx socket which should make the task easier.

[GSXRliterbikz]

E10. But as far as I could tell, its not doable with the chain on. I couldnt get a socket on it.

[01sport]

Perhaps this tool is the better choice.

[Sirstopher]

Yes, I was talking about the upper cover, is there a thread on doing this. Is this something I could fix myself.

[Spitfire007]

I USED TO LIVE IN ANNAPOLIS.

There is one shop I can recommend, and they are very close to downtown. They did a lot of work on my car, and did it really well.

AUTO INTERNATIONAL (410) 280-3584

Go see Vodeck and his son Nick (they are originally Polish) at the OCEANIC Gas station on West St. They are right near the old Gold's Gym, and car dealers.

They specialize in older VWs and Audis, and work on just about anything. They do full engine replacements, and other major repairs, so they are capable. They are SUPER busy, but if you have a chance to leave it there for a while, they can get it done.

One of their head techs is Andy. He and I worked together quite a bit, and he knew A LOT about e38s.

Tell them Will (with the Green 740 sent you)

[stswartz]

01Sport The torx female bolt at the bottom of the chain takes a t50 the bolts holding the chain guides were e12 and e13. the three at the bottom of the v shaped chain guide were e10 sorry about the delay just got back to the project and finally got the cover off. all the advise was a great help