Pros and Cons of 2000 BMW 323i

[pinoybreaka5388]

Hey guys i'm helping my girlfriend look for a car and we found a 2000 BMW 323i. We test drove it and everything seems like its in place and its running great. Just want to know of any of the problems that she could run into and what I should look for next time I go look at it.

Thanks!

[D. Hitchcock]

Things to consider about a 2000 323i.

1) Has the cooling system been overhauled? Regardless of mileage, at that age, the car needs a new radiator, overflow tank, thermostat and housing, water pump and hoses.

2) Ensure, via the maintenance history, whether the car has ever been serviced for overheating. If so, be very wary of warped major engine components.

3) Window regulators: Do any of the windows work very slowly or make noises? If so, the regulators are on their last legs.

4) If the regulators have already been replaced (and trust me, it either needs new ones or has them already), then you want to be sure the car doesn't take water into the floorboards in a moderate to heavy rain. (Regulator repairs often don't include proper resealing of the door's interior vapor barriers, allowing leakage into the car.)

5) Tierods, control arms/balljoints, and control arm bushings are probably all worth a close inspection.

6) Brakes are probably ready for routine maintenance, i.e. new rotors and pads.

If you get the car for the right price, and get all this stuff done (or can guarantee that this stuff HAS been done), then you should be golden for another 60-80k miles. Note, Nos. 5 & 6 are routine items on any used vehicle of this age. The other items are e46 specific ...

Check the oil and coolant regularly.

d.hitchcock

P.S. My e46 is a 2000 323i Touring, fwiw.

[pinoybreaka5388]

THANKS!

1. & 2. About the whole cooling system and etc. I can't tell as of right now. I'm going to be getting a carfax to see if there have been any major known problems.

3. Windows are working fine. They weren't slow and they worked very smoothly.

4. We've had some heavy rain here for the past 4 days and i looked at the carpets and etc to see if there was anything looked wrong or anything was leaking inside, but I didn't see anything

5. As far as this, i'm probably going to have to ask him if I can get it inspected

6. Like you said this was a given, and he told us that they're going to be needed to changed soon.

The price is $8,000 at 64K (miles). Everything feels right with this car, I just want to be sure.

[pegcity]

that's a good price for the mileage if everything is working well

check the serpantine belts for cracks

[pinoybreaka5388]

Yah it is. Were gonna go look at it again next week and try to get someone to look at it. Hopefully everything is running just fine and some of the things listed have already been replaced.

[danewilson77]

From....

http://www.bimmerfest.com/wiki/index.php/BMW_E46

What should I look out for?
The E46 doesn't have many significant problem areas; however these cars are VERY sensitive to maintenance. If you are going to buy a used E46, avoid cars without a good maintenance and repair history. Luckily, the E46 had free maintenance until 36,000 or 50,000 miles (depending on year), so most early maintenance was performed by BMW dealers. Any dealer should be able to provide the service history with just the last seven digits of the VIN.


Below are some frequently occuring and well known issues:

• Window regulators fail. The windows will then either make clicking noises as they go up/down (sign of a failing regulator) or not operate at all possibly leaving your window partially or fully open. This is an extremely common failure and aclear weakspot of the E46. Out of warranty, expect the parts to cost $150 per door for the front and $100 per door for the rear PLUS $500 - $750 per door for labor. Some owners had success asking BMW NA to cover all or a portion of the cost for this design defect even when the vehicle was out of warranty.
• Tail lamp wiring faults. The updated E46 sedan (from 9/01 to 3/05 production) wiring harness has a design defect with grounding wires for the rear lighting that are too small and are made of poor quality materials, thus leading to wiring harness failure due to overheating. As stated in BMW's TSB, "Customers may complain that one of the rear lights is inoperative. CAUSE: Minor corrosion at the 8-pin rear lamp connector creates high resistance causing damage to the connector housing. CORRECTION: Repair the damaged wire(s) and replace damaged connector housing. Install additional ground wires to both left and right rear lamps." This can be easily confirmed by careful examination of the rear lamp wiring connectors which are usually melted. Symptoms include a "burned out bulb" warning in the instrument panel and (intermittently) completely inoperative rear lamp cluster(s). While BMW has a TSB for this problem, many have occurred out of warranty leading to arguments with the dealer (automotive lighting standards are Federally legislated, yet BMW refuses to repair this design defect once the cars are out of warranty). BMW dealers expect $350-$400, or more, PER SIDE to make the tail lamps work. As a result, check for a NHTSA recall (or a class-action lawsuit against BMW) before you pay for repairs. There are many threads on this problem; see the BMW TIS (search for SIB 63 03 06 if the attached link is inop)here. This problem was not limited to US market as you can read here. Cheaper DIY repairs can also be found on a variety of web forums, although your results may vary; here is one: here .
• The cooling system will eventually fail catastrophically due to a disintegrating water pump bearing. When this occurs all coolant is lost within seconds and the engine will overheat instantly (remember, these cars have only a total of ~2 gallons of coolant). A much better water pump than the stock/OEM unit is available from EMP Steward, but it's pricey ($200) compared to stock ($70). Other items on the cooling system that should be considered maintenance items since they will likely/eventually fail are the plastic/electric thermostat and the coolant reservoir. Therefore, preventative cooling system maintenance replacing these items every 60k to 80k miles is strongly advised. If an engine is allowed to seriously overheat the repair costs can reach several thousand dollars because of warped cylinder heads.
• VANOS unit wear and failure. This was already the case with the B52 engines in the E36, but it's much easier to repair on the E46's B54 engines since the timing chains do not have to be removed. This defect is mostly related to the Buna o-rings in the unit's control pistons which due to heat induced hardening allow excessive oil bypass, thus leading to less accurate control of camshaft timing. Fluctuating idle or stalling can also be signs of this problem. Depending on maintenance this can already occur at 50K miles. If this defect occurs, there is a noticeable rattle in the engine from the VANOS unit, often around 2,000 rpm and low rpm performance will be affected. Repair is actually relatively easy and a true DIY for someone who has basic skills. Replacing the Buna o-rings with higher quality Viton rings in the VANOS unit will fix the issue. Better yet Dr. Vanos sells complete rebuild and blue printed VANOS units that are even better than new OEM BMW units and Beisan Systems sells the above mentioned Viton seal/o-ring DIY kits. Cam sensors (intake and exhaust) on the VANOS unit are also prone to fail and as small as they are, they are expensive ($100+). The exhaust sensor is usually the first to fail and that occurs often right around 100K miles. It has been proven that ONLY OEM BMW sensors should be installed during repair since all aftermarket units are not that compatible and of lower quality. VANOS units on ZHP cars are especially failure prone for undetermined reasons. Common opinion is that this is related to the more aggressive camshaft profiles. <LI itxtvisited="1">There are many reports of cracked or torn subframe mounting points. Most often the two rear mounting points below the trunk floor are affected. This occurs almost exclusively on the early E46 323i/328i models. BMW later improved the subframe mounting points in the trunk floor of the car and in later E46 325i/330i this problem seems to be absent. This problem seems to be so frequent in early E46 cars that a check before buying a 323i/328i IS AN ABSOLUTE MUST! Repairs are very expensive and difficult since the rear axle and subfram have to be removed and the unibody frame and mounting points have to be welded. Recurring stress cracking often occurs even after a repair has been made. You can find more information as well as what it looks like in these threads: Thread 1 Thread 2 Thread 3
• Many E46 models have erratic HVAC fan speed condition wherein the instrument panel display indicates a set constant fan speed, yet the fan changes speed on a 1hz rate (constantly up and down), or fails to come on at all. This is almost always results from failure of defective original Final Stage Resistors (FSR) whose design provided insufficient heat sink surface area. The improved design FSR's can be purchased for ~$60 to $80 from a wide variety of vendors; installation threads abound.
• Front control arm bushings tend to fail after 40-60k miles. You can replace them with Powerflex bushings from Bimmerworld for $149 (pre-pressed into new carriers). <LI itxtvisited="1">There was a recall for failure-prone Bremi ignition coils. Symptoms include multiple yet intermittent "cylinder misfire" OBD-II codes, among with other difficult to diagnose problems. A dealer can tell you if this TSB/recall has been performed in which all six Bremi coils were replaced. The following build date & VIN ranges were affected by this recall:
• E46 with M54/M56 from 09/02 up to 12/04 production date.
• 325i KL58793 – KL62880, NH02298 – NH05784, PD00558 – PD01068
• 325iA KL78812 – KL89995, KR24002 – KR32361, PD56824 – PD58282, NJ21783 – NJ47934, NJ80013 – NJ96910
• 325Ci JY96097 – JY98108, PC99012 – PC99995
• 325CiA PL00001 – PL04548, PG60108 – PG62814
• 325Cic JY43694 – JY44229, PG97089 – PG98243
• 325CicA PG88872 – PG92999, PL24020 – PL31534
• 325iT EZ15376 – EZ15633 <LI itxtvisited="1">325iTA PC11346 – PC12725
• 325xi PF58422 – PF62576 <LI itxtvisited="1">325xiA PH86839 – PH90969, PM52033 – PM59296, PR06010 – PR12874
• 325xiT PE91490 – PE92062
• 325xiTA PF01600 – PF04589
• 325iA SULEV KP78010 – KP87556, PH30108 – PH36104
• 325CiA SULEV PJ15045 – PJ16347, JT20009 – JT22530
• 325iTA SULEV PJ00063 – PJ00924
• 330i KM02321 – KM07066
• 330iA KM24352 – KM36386
• 330Ci PD95092 – PD97653, JU28717 – JU45159
• 330CiA PL10037 – PL14136, PH02210 – PH05245
• 330Cic EV90090 – EV90753, PJ94042 – PJ95840
• 330CicA JU95942 – JU99831, PL40018 – PL46594
• 330xi PG09391 – PG11594
• 330xiA PG20116 – PG23990, PN30039 – PN35923

There was a technical service bulletin for fading FM stereo reception on cars with navigation with the BM53 tuner. The fix is to replace the BM53 tuner in the trunk. Reference service measure #B65-209-04 with your dealer.

There was a technical service bulletin for a 4000RPM power dip on cars equipped with the ZHP Performance Package. The fix is to send the car's DME to New Jersey for reprogramming. Reference service bulletin # SIB 12 17 05 with your dealer - More info here: http://www.linquist.net/motorsports/bmw/sib121705.txt

There was a recall of the electric radiator cooling fan on a wide variety of BMW models, to include many early E46's. The problem could result in an engine compartment electrical fire several minutes after the engine was shut off. Several cars (and homes) were destroyed by the resulting fires.

The sunroof shade track/rails are prone to failure. The sunroof will sometimes fail to operate in the heat on older models.

The interior weather stripping above the coupe doors often falls down after a few years. Easily glued into place. (Some even fell down before the cars were sold new.)

There was a technical service bulletin for an erratic idle with possible stalling. Reference service measure #B12-207-0 with your dealer.

[pinoybreaka5388]

Wow thats alot! yah i just found out about the Vanos thing from my brother. And i guess i'll be going to the BMW dealer to see the maintence history.

So with all of these things I have to look into, do you guys actually think its worth buying it, especially with the mileage being at 64k and it seems this is where all these maintence requirements tend to pop up?

[danewilson77]

Oh noooooooooooooooo..........NOT 64k. What will you ever do?




























Hell ya...buy the car...but you may have to get those hands dirty once in a while.

You probably found the only 2000 323i on the planet with only 64k on it....

[pinoybreaka5388]

Lmao. The car is going to be for my gf, just helping her out.

I found some great cooling kits to update all of the old stuff + the vanos kit for pretty cheap. So i guess it won't be that bad. I just hope she doesn't have to do all of this as soon as she buys the car.

Thanks for all the help!

[danewilson77]

Yeah...theres diy's for all that shit.....plus chicks dig it when you get all dirty....

[pinoybreaka5388]

Hah, yah.

Well i'll check the carfax, the BMW dealer for maintence history, and have someone look at the car. Hopefully we'll be getting it in the next week or two.

Thanks again.

[bmw323it]

Yeah...theres diy's for all that shit.....plus chicks dig it when you get all dirty....

no wonder i get so many chics

[ode2joy]

Dude, for that price i would grab it today!!!!

Dane, don't want to hijack this post, but does all of this cooling system info apply to the 01 cars as well?
I have an 01 with no cooling system history, and i've also just passed this thread on to a friend who just bought an 00 323i with a cooland smell under the hood. Apparently his situation is more urgent, but i'm curious if this same water pump stuff applies to the 01 m54 3.0's?
thanks

[dabigebowski]

one thing 2 also remember,

when u have ur car pressure tested for cooling system (freon or such) make sure that ur hoses are all intact b4 u drive off because on mine one of the hose came off due t its old rubber age and sealent. my engine got overheated and ended up getting a new engine upgrade ! change all ur hoses bro...it will save u alot more money. trust me.

[danewilson77]

Dude, for that price i would grab it today!!!!

Dane, don't want to hijack this post, but does all of this cooling system info apply to the 01 cars as well?
I have an 01 with no cooling system history, and i've also just passed this thread on to a friend who just bought an 00 323i with a cooland smell under the hood. Apparently his situation is more urgent, but i'm curious if this same water pump stuff applies to the 01 m54 3.0's?
thanks

Yeah...I think it's super broad across all E46's

[nathancarter]

Manual or automatic?

I'd personally shy away from early E46s with automatic transmissions. At 64k you probably have plenty of life left in the transmission, but it won't really last forever.

[beenyweenies]

Dane, don't want to hijack this post, but does all of this cooling system info apply to the 01 cars as well?

It's safe to assume that just about any E46, after 65k miles, is going to need a cooling system refresh. This becomes more pronounced if you've had any oil or ATF fluid leaks in your engine compartment, as these fluids will greatly speed up the demise of the various cooling system hoses. If they look bloated, cracked, spongy or otherwise unhealthy (including around the connecting ends) then you should do a refresh IMO.

I am doing my entire cooling system today on my '01 330i @ 66k miles.

[Sim117]

For 8k you could get a facelifted 325 or even a high mileage 330. These cars require maintenance regardless of mileage and are good for 300k miles. If it were me, I'd look at an '02+ 325 for with 80-100k instead as theres still ALOT of life left in the car but it has a much more updated look. Transmission is up to you but the early e46s like the one your looking at are prone to transmission failure in the autos. Look for a manual as it will last longer as is SOOOOOO MMMUUUUCCCHHHH more fun to drive.

Another thing to consider is that because its for your gf, she might enjoy a convertible instead of a sedan. Good luck!

[danewilson77]

Verts are really not that safe of a vehicle. I wouldn't put my baby in one...just sayin

[akhbhaat]

For 8k you could get a facelifted 325 or even a high mileage 330. These cars require maintenance regardless of mileage and are good for 300k miles. If it were me, I'd look at an '02+ 325 for with 80-100k instead as theres still ALOT of life left in the car but it has a much more updated look. Transmission is up to you but the early e46s like the one your looking at are prone to transmission failure in the autos. Look for a manual as it will last longer as is SOOOOOO MMMUUUUCCCHHHH more fun to drive.

If you're buying a 7-8+ year old used car, condition and maintenance/repair history should be much more of a priority than getting an "updated look."

The facelift isn't that big of a deal. Most people can't be bothered to notice the difference.

[ZHP]

The rear subframe mounts are another problem that hasn't been mentioned yet. There is a settlement arrising from a class action lawsuit that addresses this but you'll want to know what you're getting into prior to purchasing the car. Make sure your PPI looks for any signs of cracking or tearing at the mounts.

[D. Hitchcock]

See if you can get them down to $7k.

Excellent info from Dane ...

d.hitchcock

[algoode]

Stay away from this year and model bmw the reverse will go out if you don't believe me go to www.noreverse.com and see the thousands of bmw 323i with no reverse and bmw does'nt even recognize it as a recall STAY AWAY, STAY AWAY. I have the same car and i have no reverse.

[danewilson77]

Stay away from this year and model bmw the reverse will go out if you don't believe me go to www.noreverse.com and see the thousands of bmw 323i with no reverse and bmw does'nt even recognize it as a recall STAY AWAY, STAY AWAY. I have the same car and i have no reverse.

Good info.....but way late....thread started over two months ago.

Additionally, alot of times you can use the noreverse issue as a bargaining chip, get outta the tranny what you can, then throw a new one in, or do the manual swap.

Welcome to Bf.c.

[Bob222]

Hi there,

I know this is way late on the thread and a bit of a hijack, but the following may be of use to others in terms of 323 and E46 specific components that fail:

If your expansion tank explodes/fails, or some other catastrophic coolant failure occurs, try to switch off the engine within a few seconds, if safe to do so. Otherwise you risk engine seizing or other major overheating damage.

The above mentioned failures in this thread do occur. Perhaps less common cooling failures to watch out for, or some other root causes of cooling component failuires are:

* Air lock in the cooling system. You MUST bleed as much air out of the cooling system as possible if you have filled the radiator with coolant. Weird things happen if you don't. One example: the temperature guage reads normal one second and in the red a couple of seconds later. A bit too late for the fan to cut in and assist in cooling off the system. Your expansion tank might have been subjected to quite a few of these thermal and pressure stress cycles (unnoticed) in the past and a seam gives and the tank fails. Sometimes this is diagnosed as a faulty fan problem, or a faulty sensor. The temperature sender unit typically is quite reliable.

* Radiator fan on the 323 become erratic and will not switch on the appropriate speed. The fan is often reffered to as an auxilliary fan. These fans are fitted behind the radiator in 323 and 323ci models and cool both the aircon and the engine coolant. It is typically not the fan that fails, but the control box attached, which contains some circuitry that I think controls the speed (low/high). Unfortunately you cannot get the control box as a spare (I'm trying to negotiate with Wenzhou below)... you have to replace the entire fan! You may not notice that you have a cooling problem until one day you switch off the aircon, and the cooling fan no longer runs on low (low is normally sufficient to cool the engine moderately in stop/start traffic). Kaboom - a hose or expansion tank blows. This is because there is zero pressure relief mechanism on the cooling system, as crazy as that sounds.

You could also have done some damage to your Aircon system by not having it cooled normally, in the lead-up to an expansion tank/hose/radiator failure. Get it checked!

As a future cross reference for those who need the information, the fan part number is:

BMW: 17117561757; 17117525508; 17117510617
Bosch: 0986338012;0130303937
Frigair: 0502.1601 (Italy?)
Schliekmann: 70123400 (Denmark?)
Van Wezel: 0646746 (Germany?)
Vemo: 20010002 (Germany)
Wenzhou Juding Auto Parts Co (China): 17117525508

Ballpark price: 200 Euro in Europe (Frigair, Schliekmann, Von Wenzel, Vemo, Bosch), or US$190 in USA (DP).

* Exhaust gas from a failed head gasket might over-pressurise your cooling system. Get a firm diagnosis to exclude this possibility. A head gasket is a really expensive fix, as the head needs skimming if the gasket has gone, which requires moderate engine disassembly. If the head is aluminium and if there is physical movement of the gasket, then the head begins to warp. Aluminium heads are unhappy in general with uneven/overheated temperature zones. When overheated, the gasket can fail as a result and in really bad cases, the cylinder bores get warped. Rapid depressurisation of the cooling system can affect gasket by pushing an already dodgy gasket "over the edge" :- it may fail in conjunction with another cooling component.

If the engine misfires, or if there is water in the oil, then it is probably a head gasket failure. However, get a second opinion if the engine still fires normally (no power loss) and if a mechanic tells you that exhaust gas "could be" pressurising your cooling system and you need a gasket replacement.

There are two useful head gasket tests I know of, that specifically test if your head gasket is leaking into the cooling system (note: your head gasket could have failed in other ways, which these two tests will NOT pick up). One test is a chemical test that tests to see if there are recent carbon monoxide/dioxide emissions in the water. This will diagnose early signs of gasket failure/imminent failure. The other test is mechanical - the radiator is artificially pressurised to an appropriate pressure. The engine is warmed up to operating temp. The engine is stopped and all the spark plugs are removed. Pressure is artificially kept at an appropriate pressure for 24hr. The engine is then cranked. If coolant droplets immediately come out of the exhaust pipe or plugs, your head gasket has gone.

I have been told that the alum blocks (not sure if all the USA ones are steel?) are not happy with the (essential) stretch bolts that are used - aluminium threads can be permanently distorted/damaged/weakened on first fitting, i.e. by the manufacturer when new. When disassembled, you further damage them. This you may not find in literature, but I have heard several BMW specialists mention it. You might need to fit helicoils to all 14 head bolts, so that the threads can be brought back to OEM specs and you will prevent further head gasket problems/spontaneous failures.

Removing/refitting the cams and setting up the Vanos is not really a DIY job unless you are EXTREMELY careful, and/or have the expensive setting/clamp tools and experience required. Not recommended unless you have at least done another (more straightforward) head gasket replacement on an engine before.

Other sensible E46 advice:

Always USE ONLY BMW coolant, which is blue. If you mix with green, red or some othe manufacturer coolant, you may start precipitating lots of sludge that blocks small bore cooling paths (some sort of chemical reaction occurs).

Another last item in general for E46s: be SURE that the oil in the engine is specifically "long-life" oil (fully synthetic?) or the OEM equivalent and not some off-the-shelf DIY dodge. The service intervals are longer than other petrol engines (approaching 25 000 km). Using sub-standard oil will ruin a motor. This is why a full service history is preffered on the E46. If you buy an E46, change the oil+filter as a matter of course.