bmw vs. toyota

[Wolfen]

On the large it would seem that Toyota and Lexus are indeed more reliable. And they are more reliable but it does not bother me in the least. In effect Toyotas are meant to be reliable transportation. They are nice mild mannered cars.

BMW's are a little more glitchy and temperamental. They have a stronger personality when you drive them. It always seems like a natural trade off. Just like with women. They hotter they get, the more quirks you'll have to put up with, but if you're the type, you will love putting up with them because of the ride you get

In other words, we don't care if a Toyota is more reliable on some data sheet. After all reliability is all the Toyota owner has to gloat about. Let them have it.

[Aindriu]

I had an E28 525e for my first car (1988) had electric windows (all worked) aircon system was first class even by todays standards. Drove beautifully and I never did any servicing on it other than change the engine and gearbox oil (which did magic to the car btw).

My friend Wisang, had an 1989 Toyota Camry, his wind down windows did not work. His exhaust would blow out smoke. There was something wrong with his steering. His brakes screeched and he had been taking it in and out of mechanics for years.

That's my experience. End of the day.
Japanese - Mass produced for high sales, corners cut if possible. Cheapest materials used to gain profits.
German - Pure quality!

You get what you pay for. I had a Ford where everything was cheap to replace but I'd be replacing alot. I don't have much go on my BMWs but when it's replaced I know problem is sorted.

[Aindriu]

BMW's are a little more glitchy and temperamental. They have a stronger personality when you drive them. It always seems like a natural trade off. Just like with women. They hotter they get, the more quirks you'll have to put up with, but if you're the type, you will love putting up with them because of the ride you get

PURE CLASS!

[TopasBlau46]

On the large it would seem that Toyota and Lexus are indeed more reliable. And they are more reliable but it does not bother me in the least. In effect Toyotas are meant to be reliable transportation. They are nice mild mannered cars.

BMW's are a little more glitchy and temperamental. They have a stronger personality when you drive them. It always seems like a natural trade off. Just like with women. They hotter they get, the more quirks you'll have to put up with, but if you're the type, you will love putting up with them because of the ride you get

In other words, we don't care if a Toyota is more reliable on some data sheet. After all reliability is all the Toyota owner has to gloat about. Let them have it.

win

[MrBlah]

On the large it would seem that Toyota and Lexus are indeed more reliable. And they are more reliable but it does not bother me in the least. In effect Toyotas are meant to be reliable transportation. They are nice mild mannered cars.

I disagree at least based on the toyota's & bmw's my immediate family has owned, the bmw's have been much more reliable

[Rez90]

Toyota builds the most reliable car in the world. Thats why so many other car manufacturers try to copy toyota and their practices.

[NMMR]

and if an old BMW needs something, its a freaking sub frame bushing or drive shaft.. if a toyota needs something, its a 20$ relay

[MrBlah]

and if an old BMW needs something, its a freaking sub frame bushing or drive shaft.. if a toyota needs something, its a 20$ relay

or in my case, a CV joint, and a whole new frame (rust recall)

[attack eagle]

lol... true, the great tacoma recall... and there have been more than a couple of other major recalls by toyota recently. makes me question their quality in production and design.

[M62pwrdE38]

I owned an e23 with over 220k miles, my M3 has close to 170k and is going strong. My dad had a 97 Camry for 5 years and the only things that broke were a clip in the driver's door handle ($0.79) and a really fat guy sat on his fuel pump cover in the back seat and cracked it ($26). I won't begin to get into what I replaced on my e23, e30 and e38 in the last 2 years (~$4k in parts alone). That being said my dad's Camry was the slowest and one of the most boring cars I've ever driven. Its a rolling appliance. I also convinced my mom to get an 03 Camry earlier this year. Its perfect for her; basic transportation needing minimal maintenance. They also switched to a timing chain with the 2.4L. Both BMWs and Toyotas can last a really long time and be reliable, but maintenance plays a huge role as always.

[MattSkye]

well i used to drive a 91 toyota 4 runner, its currently 17 years old and has 250,000 km on it... its a great car i love it !!! but it is sadly on its 2nd motor because my mom forgot to put oil in it 3 years ago and the original engine overheated... other then that the car was perfect! still the same tranny, only new fenders, new rear bumper! i just got my bmw in september a 05' 325i w 42,000km on it so im hoping if i treat it right do the regular maintence i can get the same results as the toyota minus the enigne! haha

[Spargo]

This is one of the all-time most irritating conversation topics, reliability, because no matter how much data is presented people always reference one or two cars and say SEE?! Its reliable because it made it XXX miles, all you have to do is maintain the thing!!! Congradulations, if reliability simply means you can keep an engine alive and it wont spontaniously catastrophically fail on you, yup every car is equally reliable.

The fact of the matter is so many more factors go into reliability. For example, complexity of parts, a wood burning stove is more reliable than a furnace. Use of the product, an ornamental vase is more relable than a saw blade.

The thing is you have to consider these all factors of reliability. If you own a corola, you're going to drive it like a corola, and if you own an M3 you're going to drive it like you just stole it, thus its likely the BMW will encounter more mechanical failures due to excess wear. That said though that means the BMW is still less reliable, sure it COULD be just as reliable or even more so if driven like the camry but it wont be so there is no point in presenting that argument.

In the end though reliability is best measured on large scale, data is data, and though you can make all the arguments like I have above, if Toyotas typically last longer than BMWs and have less issues that cost less money then yeah, I'd call that reliable.

-Spargo

PS yeah Toyotas are totally appliances, who would want to get one, like that lame MR2 spyder, a sub 2200lb mid engined roadster SNOOOOORE. Sadly BMWs are probably purchased just as often as an appliance. The best selling BMW in the lineup? the base 325, why? because its enough to get the badge.

[M62pwrdE38]

This is one of the all-time most irritating conversation topics, reliability, because no matter how much data is presented people always reference one or two cars and say SEE?! Its reliable because it made it XXX miles, all you have to do is maintain the thing!!! Congradulations, if reliability simply means you can keep an engine alive and it wont spontaniously catastrophically fail on you, yup every car is equally reliable.

The fact of the matter is so many more factors go into reliability. For example, complexity of parts, a wood burning stove is more reliable than a furnace. Use of the product, an ornamental vase is more relable than a saw blade.

The thing is you have to consider these all factors of reliability. If you own a corola, you're going to drive it like a corola, and if you own an M3 you're going to drive it like you just stole it, thus its likely the BMW will encounter more mechanical failures due to excess wear. That said though that means the BMW is still less reliable, sure it COULD be just as reliable or even more so if driven like the camry but it wont be so there is no point in presenting that argument.

In the end though reliability is best measured on large scale, data is data, and though you can make all the arguments like I have above, if Toyotas typically last longer than BMWs and have less issues that cost less money then yeah, I'd call that reliable.

-Spargo

PS yeah Toyotas are totally appliances, who would want to get one, like that lame MR2 spyder, a sub 2200lb mid engined roadster SNOOOOORE. Sadly BMWs are probably purchased just as often as an appliance. The best selling BMW in the lineup? the base 325, why? because its enough to get the badge.

BMW doesn't make a 325 anymore. If I were to go to a Toyota dealer and ask for a sports car, what would they offer me?

[MrBlah]

I think another factor is people with toyota's treat them like an appliance

my dad's toyota has had half the control handles fall off while under warranty, and a few other little trim issues

will he take it in and complain ? Nope

will a bmw owner complain if the same thing/things happens? Ohh hell yes

[ohnoes]

PS yeah Toyotas are totally appliances, who would want to get one, like that lame MR2 spyder, a sub 2200lb mid engined roadster SNOOOOORE. Sadly BMWs are probably purchased just as often as an appliance. The best selling BMW in the lineup? the base 325, why? because its enough to get the badge.

That's the car Toyota owners, when backed into a corner, always, so predictably fall back on--the godly MR2.

Too bad Toyota doesn't manufacture the car anymore; still, I'd rather have a CPO'd Z4 or a used S2K. Our director of HR has the new-gen MR2 and it just doesn't appeal; looks like a toy. I can't deny its coolness conceptually, or perhaps how it drives (I haven't driven one), but it's not a car I'd want to have.

Neither are any other Toyotas currently on the market.

[eye145]

BMW doesn't make a 325 anymore. If I were to go to a Toyota dealer and ask for a sports car, what would they offer me?

The Prius with "eat my voltage" bumper sticker on the back for ya.
Why would you shop for a sports car at Toyota? Apples to Grapes......
I guess one could think of Lexus as the M division of Toyota ? Hmmmm... Still imo no comparison, even though Lexus has made some great leaps in the past few years
Both car companys set out to build a car with different goals in mind and both suceed very well at what they do.

[InlineSixx]

That's the car Toyota owners, when backed into a corner, always, so predictably fall back on--the godly MR2.

Too bad Toyota doesn't manufacture the car anymore; still, I'd rather have a CPO'd Z4 or a used S2K. Our director of HR has the new-gen MR2 and it just doesn't appeal; looks like a toy. I can't deny its coolness conceptually, or perhaps how it drives (I haven't driven one), but it's not a car I'd want to have.

Neither are any other Toyotas currently on the market.

You'd rather have an S2000 over an MR2? You sure about that?

[kennethone]

I don't get what this argument is about BMW's being "fun", and Toyota's begin "boring". While it's true that toyota does not make any over-powered production supercars to compete with the 700+hp death traps, neither does BMW. So I fail to see what exactly makes the experience of driving a BMW "fun". The whole idea of a "fun" car, a track car, Is to have something open for upgrades, easy to work on, and safe in an accident. BMW offers nothing exceptional in either category. They have alright performance stock, but they are impossible to work on and they are not really any different from any other sedan out there. They burn gas, cash, and tires just like any other luxury sedan out there. And that's what I really detest here, the idea that "luxury" somehow equates to "fun". Luxury is privilege, luxury is attention, luxury is leisure. This is why I never see those overpriced Range rovers or AMG's ever actually go offroad. Because their owners paid too much for the privilege to have that brand, and they would not risk scratching or denting one like a real SUV or truck. Same thing with track cars, very few people actually race BMW's because the risk of having damaged something expensive is too high. That's why in my opinion, they are just as "boring" as any other appliance car out there. That is of course if you don't count the rush of getting a speeding ticket.

[montaillou]

Who's stronger: Thor or the Hulk?

[MrBlah]

The whole idea of a "fun" car, a track car, Is to have something open for upgrades, easy to work on, and safe in an accident. BMW offers nothing exceptional in either category. They have alright performance stock, but they are impossible to work on and they are not really any different from any other sedan out there

was this sarcasm or serious? Never been to a track day? There's a lot of miata's and bmw's for a good reason, there's even the spec classes like spec miata, spec e30 spec e36 spec 46

and bmw's are very easy to work on, I Prefer working on bmw's over my ford

[Doge]

Whadda troll, dead thread man..
Supra is a great car, so is an M3
But...how many Tercels you see starting at pole position?
Bad argument about the off-roading, Range Rovers are not designed with off-roading in mind so much as "normal driving on roads paved with kitty litter". And when have you seen an AMG go off road? They break down if you even look at a dirt road.
People don't race BMWs? I think all of that legalized is jamming up your circuits 'brah'.
This thread was started as a simple bar style argument between two friends, but if Mr. Car-rolla thinks he knows the effective difference between two cars (one of which he has probably never driven) let him. (I've owned JDM and German market, there is a notable difference)
"German-designed cars won in the European Car of the Year, the International Car of the Year, the World Car of the Year annual awards the most times among all countries. The Volkswagen Beetle and Porsche 911 took 4th and 5th places in the Car of the Century award." -wiki [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_Germany]
This thread died long ago probably before his mommy and/or daddy bought him said washing machine on wheels.
gentleman_troll.jpg
Later much..

[BimmerBreaker]

The whole idea of a "fun" car, a track car, Is to have something open for upgrades, easy to work on, and safe in an accident.

This describes pretty much every BMW made from 1990 through 2005...

[youngbimmer]

I drove a 3S-GTE powered 1999 Celica, and that thing was a hoot. Shame the US never got the 3S-GTE in anything except a few MR2s, it really is a spectacular motor :/

That being said, it is certainly a different character from many BMWs. It's just a different taste. Toyota is just as easy to work on if not easier, and for damn sure more reliable. More fun than a turbo M30? Not really, but still lots of reliable, inexpensive fun to be had. And please, don't forget this simple rule: If you dump enough money into a car, it can become the fastest ride around. That is manufacturer agnostic for sure.