I have had a dream about a streetable sequential gearbox for my e36...check this out

[highboostingm3]

I have had a dream about a streetable sequential gearbox for my e36...check this out. :eek:



http://youtu.be/G2edUCxsQmk

[m3mods]

Damn that's sweet! I'd rock one for sure

[highboostingm3]

Damn that's sweet! I'd rock one for sure
I was always told it would be too loud, too expensive, etc....but if the market creates a demand, someone will build it quieter and for less. :smoke3

[Butters Stoch]

Damn that's sweet! I'd rock one for sure

Id want paddle shift as well.

[highboostingm3]

Id want paddle shift as well.
I am sure that can be arranged for you King Butters. :smoke3

[Butters Stoch]

I am sure that can be arranged for you King Butters. :smoke3

Your truly the greatest.

[m3mods]

I've got an e46 smg for you butters ;)

[DieselGhost]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QNsccYEsvI

drooling...

[IR M5]

I got goosebumps from that video. I would think that with a high hp rwd platform, those lighting fast shifts would be somewhat of a hand full traction wise.

[Butters Stoch]

I got goosebumps from that video. I would think that with a high hp rwd platform, those lighting fast shifts would be somewhat of a hand full traction wise.

Or maybe the opposite. Maybe it could help.

[BigM62]

Group buy?

[GG///M3]

I have had a dream about a streetable sequential gearbox for my e36...check this out. :eek: Video Link: http://youtu.be/G2edUCxsQmk (http://youtu.be/G2edUCxsQmk)

Just an odd question is it me or is this guy not using a clutch pedal?

[Butters Stoch]

Just an odd question is it me or is this guy not using a clutch pedal?

He is, but with his mind.

[highboostingm3]

Group buy?
HaHa I doubt enough peeps would be in on it even if this company was willing.

Just an odd question is it me or is this guy not using a clutch pedal?
Korrekt...no.

He is, but with his mind.
:rofl


Here you go ///GG.


http://youtu.be/Meb5NIXeU2A

- - - Updated - - -


http://youtu.be/E2CybLSrN5Q

[badluckM3]

What did Mr. Blonde have in his mcoupe?

edit: found it - http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1149670-anyone-make-sequential-gearbox&p=15188616#post15188616

[GG///M3]

Still not faster then my skateboard Cameron.

[highboostingm3]

What did Mr. Blonde have in his mcoupe?

edit: found it - http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1149670-anyone-make-sequential-gearbox&p=15188616#post15188616
Thank you. I drove shifter karts for a little and that is what created my lust for sequential shifting. Then I saw that youtube video in that thread you just posted. I will re-post the video I am referring to below. This sequential gearbox is very loud and very expensive. Listen to it compared to the EVO /Porsche video in the original post. This newer Drenth Gearbox was most likely made specifically for the street car/weekend racer in mind. It probably says that on their website...just need to research more. It is super quiet. Their damn site does not have prices though...I need to find out cost. :wow



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSJ-HzNWJGM&feature=related

[GG///M3]

I wonder how much these run?

[Butters Stoch]

I wonder how much these run?

About the same as a turbo kit is my guess

[GG///M3]

About the same as a turbo kit is my guess

Most likely about the same amount of sadness

[black bnr32]

a hollinger for a Nissan RB is $25k IIRC. OS Giken OS88 is $14k.

[highboostingm3]

a hollinger for a Nissan RB is $25k IIRC. OS Giken OS88 is $14k.
...so the Drenth is $5,000? :D

[GG///M3]

Pocket raping fun

[highboostingm3]

Pocket raping fun
Counterfeit moneys anyway. Not like it's backed by Gold/Silver. It's just paper with evil simbols on it so it's best for our consciousness to get rid of it anyway. :smoke3

[iRodD]

I have had a dream about a streetable sequential gearbox for my e36...check this out. :eek:

Video Link: http://youtu.be/G2edUCxsQmk (http://youtu.be/G2edUCxsQmk)

He looks like he's setting the hook on a small fish every time he shifts, is that really necessary? Could this transmission hold 700+ ft lbs. Of torque abuse everyday?

[DieselGhost]

http://www.holinger.com.au/rd6.php

The Holinger RD6 will hold 650ft.lbs in endurance races... should hold more in a street setup...

[HamsM5]

Hmm....

http://www.drenth-gearboxes.com/products/gearboxes/dg500-gearbox.html

Chris.

[Soorena]

I have Hewland SGT-S 6 in my E92. My only grip with it is the H pattern i chose, i should have gone with push/pull sequential setup. Thought it's more manly to throw the gears yourself. :| It's super expensive though (14,500 euros). You have to build these boxes regularly though. My car isn't even finished completely and i've already built the transmission once.

[BadBoostedBmwM3]

I have Hewland SGT-S 6 in my E92. My only grip with it is the H pattern i chose, i should have gone with push/pull sequential setup. Thought it's more manly to throw the gears yourself. :| It's super expensive though (14,500 euros). You have to build these boxes regularly though. My car isn't even finished completely and i've already built the transmission once.


Just wondering, why did you change to that setup?
A DCT seems perfect! Besides, they are holding good power (torque ok), and correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't there upgraded disks or clutch packs available to hold more power?

[Soorena]

Just wondering, why did you change to that setup?
A DCT seems perfect! Besides, they are holding good power (torque ok), and correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't there upgraded disks or clutch packs available to hold more power?

I heavily considered that route. DCT shifts faster, is a lot more durable and can hold more torque. There are dodson clutches that are rated up to 900 lb-ft available, but they are in beta test point so who knows if they work properly. I wouldn't have exceeded the 450 lb-ft torque limit of the box though if i went with a DCT, my car is NA and makes 408 lb-ft. However there are a few problems. First of my car is running on standalone, and since the TCU gets many inputs from the ECU there would be no way to keep the TCU happy with a standalone. I even tried to come up with a standalone TCU but got little interest from the top names. Another problem with the DCT is weight. They are heavy. The difference between a low-angled helical gear sequential with a DCT is ~100 pounds and in a car that i did everything to shed some weight 100 pounds is a lot. And last but not least in many classes that i intend to race DCTs are not allowed.

[Colby Colbs]

If only I had help to get my fooking car together... The gear box that is bolted in my chassis currently is setup to do exactly what's shown in video. Only difference is you still keep the H pattern. Currently looking for disability lawyer... :(

[vollosso]

Just an odd question is it me or is this guy not using a clutch pedal?you dont have to on upshifts.

[bawareca]

you dont have to on upshifts.

And only a blip on the throttle on the downshifts.But you have to have an excellent timing ;)

[E36 HateR]

as long as my legs and my arms still work ill never ever ever give up a manual transmission in a street car.

EVER

[Colby Colbs]

+1

[Butters Stoch]

as long as my legs and my arms still work ill never ever ever give up a manual transmission in a street car.

EVER

A 5 years from now when stock production Honda's and Kia's are waxing our measly 500 hp 20 +year old E36s thoughts may be different.

[GG///M3]

A 5 years from now when stock production Honda's and Kia's are waxing our measly 500 hp 20 +year old E36s thoughts may be different.

Correcto.

Turbo torques will rape these transgendered tranizee's.

[E36 HateR]

Its not about that, its about the driving experience and control, rowing gears in a big turbo car has the be some of the most fun you can have on a daily basis, id never take that away from myself.

[Butters Stoch]

Its not about that, its about the driving experience and control, rowing gears in a big turbo car has the be some of the most fun you can have on a daily basis, id never take that away from myself.

Until you start chasing numbers at a drag strip.

[TheJuggernaut]

And only a blip on the throttle on the downshifts.But you have to have an excellent timing ;)

Not really. It's not like trying to shift a syncro car without the clutch which isn't designed for it, the windows for the dogs to engage in these transmissions are much wider, you don't have to be that precise. I'm putting a nascar gearbox in mine. I haven't driven one yet but my friends who have these say you just apply a bit of pressure to the stick, lift or blip the throttle as needed and it just slams by itself into the next gear


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jQC_g_3O1E

[vollosso]

Yup^

But thats also why they need to be rebuilt more often. The loose tolerances.

[TheJuggernaut]

Yup^

But thats also why they need to be rebuilt more often. The loose tolerances.

I agree in theory but the 3 guys I know running them, and not the GSR but the older and weaker T101 have had no issues for 4 years, and these are 10+ year old transmissions. One guy had his inspected and they found stress cracks in the dogs of one gear but no on track failure. One nice thing is that these are designed to be rebuilt so other than the hassle of removing/installing and the expense of the gears which is substantial, it's really easy to do.

[vollosso]

^thats awesome.

Is also based on the power and usage.
But yeah super easy to rebuild.. I have rebuilt dog ring boxes quite a few times.

[TheJuggernaut]

^thats awesome.

Is also based on the power and usage.
But yeah super easy to rebuild.. I have rebuilt dog ring boxes quite a few times.

Yeah I think that's another thing that we've got going in our favor. These transmissions are designed for 700++ NA HP, where they get slammed with 700 ft lbs off idle, while ours roll on the torque.

[bawareca]

Some transmissions may be quite forgiving,some are not.I guess one in a Porsche cup car would be much lighter and much less forgiving than one from a Nascar ;)

[TheJuggernaut]

Some transmissions may be quite forgiving,some are not.I guess one in a Porsche cup car would be much lighter and much less forgiving than one from a Nascar ;)

Are you sure Cup cars aren't flat shift? I think I remember reading that on those you just slam the stick.

[davidtm5]

u can get a G-FORCE sequential 5spd with an adapter plate installed into our car . only 1st gear using clutch the other 4 gear clutchless
http://www.libertysgears.com/clutchless.htm

[hakentt]

I got paddle shifting 6HP21 in my E36 with alpina flash. Shifts are instant no delay at all and reliable for every day street use

[highboostingm3]

Good discussion here.

I didn't want to speculate myself so I contacted the horse's mouth. Unit DRENTH DG500. I am waiting for a response so I can find out:
1) Cost of unit.
2) How to adapt to an e36 engine.

I will report back with my findings.


http://www.drenth-gearboxes.com/images/producten/versnellingsbakken/dg500-versnellingsbak.jpg

[MartyBtoo]

Good discussion here.

I didn't want to speculate myself so I contacted the horse's mouth. Unit DRENTH DG500. I am waiting for a response so I can find out:
1) Cost of unit.
2) How to adapt to an e36 engine.

I will report back with my findings.


http://www.drenth-gearboxes.com/images/producten/versnellingsbakken/dg500-versnellingsbak.jpg

Well, the one for sale under race car parts has been reduced to only $15K, if that fits your budget ........

Marty

[highboostingm3]

Well, the one for sale under race car parts has been reduced to only $15K, if that fits your budget ........

Marty
Oh thanks that's nice and cheap - not! :eek:

Here is the bellhousing for our motors.

http://www.drenth-gearboxes.com/images/producten/accessoires/S54_koppelingshuis.jpg

- - - Updated - - -


I got paddle shifting 6HP21 in my E36 with alpina flash. Shifts are instant no delay at all and reliable for every day street use
I know you are on a budget (according to your e90 swap post) so lets see a build thread or it didn't happen.

:eatpop:

[Butters Stoch]

Cheap money, Cam and I will take 3 . Amex black card ready to swipe.
Where do I sign.

[bawareca]

I got paddle shifting 6HP21 in my E36 with alpina flash. Shifts are instant no delay at all and reliable for every day street use





I know you are on a budget (according to your e90 swap post) so lets see a build thread or it didn't happen.

:eatpop:

That is just the regular 6 speed auto that comes with the 335i's and Z4's.It has a sportier flash and paddle shifters and is called "Sport auto transmission",so nothing extraordinary.It has snappy upshifts indeed up to around 4k RPM,everything else is just tighter auto tranny.Not bad at all,but nothing in common with a DCT or sequential.

[Mr Deagle]

Most of these gearboxes you guys are looking at cant handle much torque, except for the g-force. That drenth (while excellent) probably tops out at 350ftlbs

[MartyBtoo]

Most of these gearboxes you guys are looking at cant handle much torque, except for the g-force. That drenth (while excellent) probably tops out at 350ftlbs

Nope, it's rated at over 500, and they have another model that's even more.

Marty

PS Saenz also makes some high torque sequentials, but they aren't any cheaper ......

[m3mods]

I know you are on a budget (according to your e90 swap post) so lets see a build thread or it didn't happen.

:eatpop:

+1 on that build thread

[highboostingm3]

Nope, it's rated at over 500, and they have another model that's even more.

Marty

PS Saenz also makes some high torque sequentials, but they aren't any cheaper ......
The owner emailed me back asking me some questions which I answered back...so we will see.

I told him 600wtq(ftlbs) @ 4,750rpm (since that is my goal for my new build on high boost).

[Def]

These sequential boxes are rated for ENDURANCE RACING usage. So the torque capacity is going to be very conservative for a street driven car, but probably a little aggressive for a drag car that's launching on slicks with a heavy azz clutch and flywheel.

[highboostingm3]

These sequential boxes are rated for ENDURANCE RACING usage. So the torque capacity is going to be very conservative for a street driven car, but probably a little aggressive for a drag car that's launching on slicks with a heavy azz clutch and flywheel.
He asked about the type of tracks and I gave him a list of California road course tracks. This would be best for road coursing and IMO that is the coolest type of auto racing. Turns, different types of turns, both going left and right plus some straight-aways for WOT goodness. APEX or bust. :smoke3

[bawareca]

He asked about the type of tracks and I gave him a list of California road course tracks. This would be best for road coursing and IMO that is the coolest type of auto racing. Turns, different types of turns, both going left and right plus some straight-aways for WOT goodness. APEX or bust. :smoke3
:thumbup:


Unfortunately if you are of the type people that always want to improve,and looks like you are,it becomes infinitely expensive ;) This sequential tranny may become a very little small invisible spec in your budget.In mine,too :eek:
If you do it just for fun from time to time it may be relatively harmless hobby.

[hakentt]

refer to my project post

[Butters Stoch]

Just as good and I only invested $3000 on a whole project.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRgK4jlspsI&list=UUCE_rlC_EAl6sNx90gzrVRA

Looks cool, but not instant as claimed.

[MikeE36]

Most of these gearboxes you guys are looking at cant handle much torque, except for the g-force. That drenth (while excellent) probably tops out at 350ftlbs

+1

I've researched this a lot lately...

New Drenth are 20-40k for top of the line stuff. The Drenth MPG is really what we all need, rated to 850 n-m (626 ft-lbs) for road race use. I would imagine 800-900 ft-lbs on a street or strip car wouldn't be an issue, and well over 1000 whp with that much torque.

The DG500 is rated for 500 n-m IIRC.

They have DG350, 400, 500, and I think they are all in nm. 500nm = 368 ft-lbs.

PPG quoted me 14-16k for a custom dog box setup to go in the stock ZF case.

VAC sells samsonas dog engagement sets for $7500 to fit in the stock ZF case also.

You can find used NASCAR boxes or other older 4 speed dog boxes for 3-5k and just get custom bell housing and other things. It is by far the cheapest way, and you can change gears/dog rings / etc. in 90 minutes.

Mike

(looking for a NASCAR box :P )

[E36 HateR]

Just as good and I only invested $3000 on a whole project.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRgK4jlspsI&list=UUCE_rlC_EAl6sNx90gzrVRA

Can you get some bolt ons amd a tune in that thing it looks like itll run a 14 second 1/4 mile

[Matutino]

Looks cool, but not instant as claimed.

+1 thats far from "just as good" to a sequential gear box, cool but not the same.

[bawareca]

+1 thats far from "just as good" to a sequential gear box, cool but not the same.
We have this one tranny in my wife's '09 Z430i and even with the non-turbo's 3.0 measly torque it upshifts "like" DCT only until 4k RPM,after that it clearly feels auto tranny,very tight one really.

[hakentt]

Looks cool, but not instant as claimed.

It is instant in all RPM range, exhaust is too quiet. I would have to place the microphone in the engine bay to get proper sounds.


that thing it looks like itll run a 14 second 1/4 mile

It will run high 11s for sure

[E36 HateR]

Right...

[MikeE36]

It is instant in all RPM range, exhaust is too quiet. I would have to place the microphone in the engine bay to get proper sounds.



It will run high 11s for sure

Would love to see that. Looks like it shifts quite a bit later after you hit the paddle. Definitely not the same as a racing sequential box, but it is cool for what it is.

Mike

[Butters Stoch]

It will run high 11s for sure

All of our cars will "technically " run 11s or better. Actually doing it is another story. Hell with a 1.5 60ft a 300 hp supercharged e36 will run 11s, cutting that 1.5 is like hitting the lottery.
Hit the track.
Still cool trans tho. Do like.

[Matutino]

All of our cars will "technically " run 11s or better. Actually doing it is another story. Hell with a 1.5 60ft a 300 hp supercharged e36 will run 11s, cutting that 1.5 is like hitting the lottery.
Hit the track.
Still cool trans tho. Do like.

You are wrong, mine will run high 9s

[GG///M3]

^ Still slow

[Apex24]

Just as good and I only invested $3000 on a whole project.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRgK4jlspsI&list=UUCE_rlC_EAl6sNx90gzrVRA


INSTANT.

http://static.caloriecount.about.com/images/medium/family-mashed-potatoes-instant-75185.jpg

Just add water.

[highboostingm3]

Well my balloon just got popped. Back to worshipping the ZF tranny. At least I have a Southbend and dual mass flywheel so the sting isn't so bad.

[PEI330Ci]

Every once in a while this topic comes up, and it's always simply a point of discussion. Aside from Kenny, who spent over $20k back in 2006 on that Holinger, nobody coughs up the cash.

I spent a lot of time at ALMS/SWC events from 2006 to 2008, and got to talk to the big names in gearboxes first hand. The names that nobody has mentioned yet like Ricardo, and Emco are the only options I know of that can handle real torque. The down side is that they are basically bespoke units, and cost well north of $50k each.

Alternatively, the drag racing guys have pro-stock designs that can handle the torque and shift "sequentially", but they only go up in gears. Shifting "back" puts you in neutral....so that's a track-only option unless you go with a Lenco for example.

As I've mentioned elseware a few times, I tried to buy a transmission from a couple of the companies mentioned in this thread back in 2009, and they refused to sell me a sequential for my street car. Cash in hand, I followed their advice and invested in other things....

[MartyBtoo]

One thing that most people miss is that these sequential boxes are straight cut gears with square dogs, so there has to be a lot of space on the receiving gear so that the dog can successfully engage, like almost twice the dog width. So there will be a lot of backlash in the drivetrain as you get on and off of the throttle, not to mention the crash when you put it in gear at a stop. Then there's all of the gear noise from the gears ......

The last road racer I worked on had a sequential gearbox, and the recordings from inside the car at speed just sound like engine noise and a silent gearbox, but driving around the pits the gearbox is really noisy and jerky. Wouldn't want that on a street car unless you really don't want to talk to the passenger.

Marty

[m3mods]

One thing that most people miss is that these sequential boxes are straight cut gears with square dogs, so there has to be a lot of space on the receiving gear so that the dog can successfully engage, like almost twice the dog width. So there will be a lot of backlash in the drivetrain as you get on and off of the throttle, not to mention the crash when you put it in gear at a stop. Then there's all of the gear noise from the gears ......

The last road racer I worked on had a sequential gearbox, and the recordings from inside the car at speed just sound like engine noise and a silent gearbox, but driving around the pits the gearbox is really noisy and jerky. Wouldn't want that on a street car unless you really don't want to talk to the passenger.

Marty

Haha that's one way to get the wife to shut up ;)

[PEI330Ci]

One thing that most people miss is that these sequential boxes are straight cut gears with square dogs, so there has to be a lot of space on the receiving gear so that the dog can successfully engage, like almost twice the dog width. So there will be a lot of backlash in the drivetrain as you get on and off of the throttle, not to mention the crash when you put it in gear at a stop. Then there's all of the gear noise from the gears ......

The last road racer I worked on had a sequential gearbox, and the recordings from inside the car at speed just sound like engine noise and a silent gearbox, but driving around the pits the gearbox is really noisy and jerky. Wouldn't want that on a street car unless you really don't want to talk to the passenger.

Marty

The other thing is that you need a load cell, and gear-cut strategy on the ECU, otherwise you kill the transmission really fast. Most people aren't going to cough up the cash for a stand-alone installation capable of doing this.... (Pectel/Cosworth, Bosch Motorsport, Motec, GEMS, Life Racing/Syvecs)

[Def]

The other thing is that you need a load cell, and gear-cut strategy on the ECU, otherwise you kill the transmission really fast. Most people aren't going to cough up the cash for a stand-alone installation capable of doing this.... (Pectel/Cosworth, Bosch Motorsport, Motec, GEMS, Life Racing/Syvecs)

AEM Infinity does it with built-in tables/controls. No need for megabuck ECUs to do something like this.

[Mr Deagle]

Im not sure why pei needs to list the ECU's that he knows of.

A simple "make sure your ecu has proper shift cut strategies" would have worked better.

[Fender13Bender]

Why is no one talking about a different tranny? IE T56?

[cdmbmw]

It will run high 11s for sure

Are you refering to the car as it is? Is the motor and tune no longer stock?? High 11s with 300 hp/300 ft lbs??

[Def]

Why is no one talking about a different tranny? IE T56?

T56's feel like stirring poo with a stick.

[Fender13Bender]

If a T56 would hold the power that's fine by me.

[MikeE36]

Why is no one talking about a different tranny? IE T56?

This was a thread about race sequential gearboxes, not about the most practical and cost effective way to upgrade to a bulletproof transmission in your street E36 :stickoutt

Mike

[bawareca]

T56's feel like stirring poo with a stick.

:thumbup: :rofl:

[PEI330Ci]

Im not sure why pei needs to list the ECU's that he knows of.

A simple "make sure your ecu has proper shift cut strategies" would have worked better.

Why are you insulting me?

[vollosso]

Pei is the man fuck you deag.

[Soorena]

Im not sure why pei needs to list the ECU's that he knows of.

A simple "make sure your ecu has proper shift cut strategies" would have worked better.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.jpg

[m3mods]

Pei is the man fuck you deag.

I'd have to agree. He has certainly been a wealth of knowledge on this forum, especially in the fi section.

[Soorena]

Adam has always given great inputs on different subjects specially in nitrous subject. Personally i really enjoy his posts.

[highboostingm3]

We are lucky Adam even takes the time to post and share his knowledge with us. Deag...time to step up to Adam's selfless level and give us some of your knowledge without any snobby my crap smells like Jessica Biel's punani tude. :wave

[PEI330Ci]

Gents,

I appreciate the responses. (Some of them are quite funny)

Mr.Deagle shares good information at times, but I don't respect the personal attacks.

Some of you may know that I stopped posting entirely on another forum because I disagree with the ethics of the owner, and some of the contributors. This won't be the case here. Clearly a better community, although Cam's obsession with Jessica Biel over the past 5 years is a little concerning....

Let me see if I can dig up some examples of the shift strategy required to keep a sequential alive.

[dohcdoh]

We are lucky Adam even takes the time to post and share his knowledge with us. Deag...time to step up to Adam's selfless level and give us some of your knowledge without any snobby my crap smells like Jessica Biel's punani tude. :wave

Jessica biel has the herp. Jussayin.

[vollosso]

Ill back cam 100%. Every man makes his own choices with the salad he tosses.

[PEI330Ci]

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e29/PEI330Ci/ShiftCut_zpsf58d85a7.jpg~original

[Getconnectedav]

It appears PEI was insulted due to the cold Atlantic seas surrounding his habitat, decreasing any likelihood of retribution. So,
Focus on success and the women will follow...not the other way around. http://images.bimmerforums.com/smilies/smokin2.gif

Get your head on straight, focus on your future, get a good job, then dad will let you build your e30 into a monster and eventually there will be so much punani juice swinging from your nuts you won't know what to do about it.


if you are of the type people that always want to improve, and looks like you are

It does appear so. What a sick build this was, costing more than a coupla bricks, thus a seq inquiry isn't wackadoo... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOlsJKp6Zgo


(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOlsJKp6Zgo)

[dburt86]

Not that this really fits the application you guys describe, but something to think about is just a sequential shifter. I remember reading about a Honda H series shifter that used a set of eccentrics to have just a forward and back motion for shifting. Those transmissions are cable shifted so it made it easier, and you still would have to use the clutch, but i thought it was a neat idea none the less.

[iRodD]

What's wrong with the herp?

[rpm620]

As for Pricing i would go with a Bellhousing from Someguy2800 and have him change the mouting plate to fit a Dogbox of some sort.. Your still going to look at 5k but that could possibly get you Trans / Bellhousing / clutch / flywheel / output shaft / Throwout bearing.


Im going to go with a Tex Racing T101a Dogbox for my 2jz 240sx drift car build and its only costing about $4300, and that is with Trans, Flywheel, Triple disk, throwout bearing, bellhousing, bellhousing adapter plate, output shaft yoke.

If i could adapt a ZF trans to a 2jz i probably would do that over a dog box and only due to the price would be cheaper

[dburt86]

As for Pricing i would go with a Bellhousing from Someguy2800 and have him change the mouting plate to fit a Dogbox of some sort.. Your still going to look at 5k but that could possibly get you Trans / Bellhousing / clutch / flywheel / output shaft / Throwout bearing.


Im going to go with a Tex Racing T101a Dogbox for my 2jz 240sx drift car build and its only costing about $4300, and that is with Trans, Flywheel, Triple disk, throwout bearing, bellhousing, bellhousing adapter plate, output shaft yoke.

If i could adapt a ZF trans to a 2jz i probably would do that over a dog box and only due to the price would be cheaper

Asking out of curiosity, could you mate a BMW ZF to a 2JZ? Always wanted to do a JZ motor, but never wanted to spend the million dollars on a Getrag

[Fender13Bender]

Not sure why you would go through the hassle of a jz swap and keep a weak zf tranny connected to it.

[E36 HateR]

Not sure why you would go through the hassle of a jz swap and keep a weak zf tranny connected to it.

Zf isn't weak when you factor in the only 2 transmissions that can handle more than 200hp and bolt up to the motor are overpriced, r154 and hold 500whp for 1200 or v160 for 5000

Lolwut

[Fender13Bender]

If your spending the money, what's another 1200? Small price in the engine swapping FI world.

[E36 HateR]

Yea but r154's break at 500wtq with abuse, zf's can handle abuse at much more power levels, scalz has a 740whp e34 that gets flatfooted at every chance he gets and has been through 2 gearboxes because he kills 3rd gear synchros.

[TheJuggernaut]

+1 the ZF doesn't get its due credit. It's a transmission billed as having a max torque rating of 240 ft lbs. You would think they would be pulverized by one pull from any of the cars on this forum but they don't give up the ghost that readily, especially if you limit the abuse to intermittent drag pulls.

[dburt86]

well the expensive part of a 2jz swap is the trans. So you can get a 2jz reasonably priced if you get just the long block, and you take a BMW ZF that has proven to take more then 600whp many, many times, and can be bought for 200$, and you have a street monster. with a throw away trans.

Point being, you could buy 20 BMW ZF's for the price of 1 used, un known condition 2jz Getrag

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Yea but r154's break at 500wtq with abuse, zf's can handle abuse at much more power levels, scalz has a 740whp e34 that gets flatfooted at every chance he gets and has been through 2 gearboxes because he kills 3rd gear synchros.


x2, ive been flat footing the shit out of my 200,000 mile ZF at 500ftlbs and it shows no signs of weakness

[rowleym]

so, with everyone understanding how strong these are, Does anyhave have dimensions of the ZF bellhousing? Haha. I plan to make lsx adapter and I only have an lsx block, but no free zf currently.

[dburt86]

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1989219-T56-in-my-car

I bet he would have the dimensions

[Fender13Bender]

well the expensive part of a 2jz swap is the trans. So you can get a 2jz reasonably priced if you get just the long block, and you take a BMW ZF that has proven to take more then 600whp many, many times, and can be bought for 200$, and you have a street monster. with a throw away trans.

Point being, you could buy 20 BMW ZF's for the price of 1 used, un known condition 2jz Getrag

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x2, ive been flat footing the shit out of my 200,000 mile ZF at 500ftlbs and it shows no signs of weakness

While they may not be weak, they certainly aren't strong. Any real abuse (drag or track driving) will result in failure.

[m3mods]

so, with everyone understanding how strong these are, Does anyhave have dimensions of the ZF bellhousing? Haha. I plan to make lsx adapter and I only have an lsx block, but no free zf currently.

Make 2 plz :D

[dburt86]

While they may not be weak, they certainly aren't strong. Any real abuse (drag or track driving) will result in failure.


I agree with you

[Def]

Z33 (Nissan 350Z) boxes can hold 1200+ rwhp and aren't that expensive.

[litemup]

Why the hell is everyone talking about ZF units when the 420G is a beast and accessible for decent money?

[badmonkey]

Z33 (Nissan 350Z) boxes can hold 1200+ rwhp and aren't that expensive.
How many torques

[MikeE36]

Why the hell is everyone talking about ZF units when the 420G is a beast and accessible for decent money?

Because it's not that much of a beast compared to a dog box or anything else in the discussion, and has weak synchros.

Late model HR motor 350z CD009 transmissions are great and very popular in the drifting community. They can handle tons of power and shift really nicely too.

Mike

[litemup]

I know but people are talking about bolting a ZF to a 2jz, when a 420g is nearly the same gear set as a v160, and cost 800-1100.

[das Boot]

I've put the zf through through some pretty heavy use ,40 and 60 roll ons with 700 ft lbs and still no noises or grinding, I wish the same could be said dragging em.
The 420g is the next step but as mike proved will only last for so long.

[Fender13Bender]

Because it's not that much of a beast compared to a dog box or anything else in the discussion, and has weak synchros.

Late model HR motor 350z CD009 transmissions are great and very popular in the drifting community. They can handle tons of power and shift really nicely too.

Mike

That's awesome. Wonder how much they are.

[MikeE36]

That's awesome. Wonder how much they are.

You can get them for $1000-1500 all day. You want the later model 350z one because I believe they did a synchro update. I've drifted an HR 350z with that trans, as well as a 350 whp S13 with one swapped in, and each was really awesome. They shift nice like a ZF320, but hold power like a 420G.

Mike

[Fender13Bender]

So about the same cost as an E46 M3 tranny.


Who wants to make adapters?

[MikeE36]

So about the same cost as an E46 M3 tranny.


Who wants to make adapters?

A guy named George Marstanovic makes CD009 to SR20 adapters. Maybe he could make a BMW fitment one too?

Sorry to derail the thread with Nissan junk :stickoutt

Mike

[m3mods]

A guy named George Marstanovic makes CD009 to SR20 adapters. Maybe he could make a BMW fitment one too?

Sorry to derail the thread with Nissan junk :stickoutt

Mike

That would be sweet

[rowleym]

But seriously guys. If you make more power than the zf can handle, is it really a street car? Why even bother with another streetable transmission when the zf and the 420g work just great. I personally would go zf, and then if I needed some crazy horsetorque handling, I would just go with a tex racing dog box. You can find them for less than 2k all the time, and they are completely rebuild-able.


Seriously though. I think anything over 700hp on the street in an e30/6 is to the point where you have to roll around on slicks trying to put down any power, and THAT is when you break shit. Then its time to buy another car for the street, and put a dog box in your race car.

[m3mods]

But seriously guys. If you make more power than the zf can handle, is it really a street car? Why even bother with another streetable transmission when the zf and the 420g work just great. I personally would go zf, and then if I needed some crazy horsetorque handling, I would just go with a tex racing dog box. You can find them for less than 2k all the time, and they are completely rebuild-able.


Seriously though. I think anything over 700hp on the street in an e30/6 is to the point where you have to roll around on slicks trying to put down any power, and THAT is when you break shit. Then its time to buy another car for the street, and put a dog box in your race car.

:lol Clearly you haven't been paying attention to the bf.c way ;) 1000hp street cars for everyone! :D

[Def]

How many torques

The usual 3.5-3.7L 1200 rwhp torques - probably 800-1000 ft-lbs to the wheels or so. The gears are very large, and the ~125 lb dry weight of the box shows it.

You can get them for a bit less than $1k, but yea, you generally want a later one.

[rowleym]

:lol Clearly you haven't been paying attention to the bf.c way ;) 1000hp street cars for everyone! :D


Man even if you do have 1000whp you won't be able to lay anything past like 600-700 down with street tires. AKA track day only you are going to break transmissions.

[m3mods]

Man even if you do have 1000whp you won't be able to lay anything past like 600-700 down with street tires. AKA track day only you are going to break transmissions.

Haha yeah I know there was supposed to be a little sarcasm in there but the internet has a terrible sender of humor

[Talperian]

May be a foolish question here but: What tranny do Essa and Denofa run? They seem to have high HP BMW turbo drivetrains.

[GG///M3]

Why a street able sequential box? Buy a dct e90 m3, and have it turbo'd by Max Psi. Much better then these 20k boxes of poop . The e36 was meant for a manual or something like Boris has. If you has weak torques go for a seqi box.

[MikeE36]

May be a foolish question here but: What tranny do Essa and Denofa run? They seem to have high HP BMW turbo drivetrains.

IIRC Chelsea runs a G force box or some other dog box 4 speed setup (maybe T101, I don't really know). I have no idea what Essa runs.

Mike

[autowa]

http://www.gforcetransmissions.com/tran_gt-56.asp 6 speed 1200 hp 1000 tqs depending on application. Not to shabby ,seems the 4 spds you loose all your top end or suffer down low.

[m3mods]

http://www.gforcetransmissions.com/tran_gt-56.asp 6 speed 1200 hp 1000 tqs depending on application. Not to shabby ,seems the 4 spds you loose all your top end or suffer down low.

Wonder what it costs

[autowa]

I looked couldn't find a price. They also have a 5 spd clutches true sequential up and down or H pattern , baller status.

[m3mods]

I looked couldn't find a price. They also have a 5 spd clutches true sequential up and down or H pattern , baller status.

Yeah says call for price.. I'm too lazy for that shit lol

[Laimis]

I can recommend Samsonas transmissions ( www.samsonas.com (http://www.samsonas.com) ). Proven and affordable dog and seq. transmissions.
WTAC '14 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ak2l9VJ6Uo
E46 M3 1100WHP+ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EIu8i9SgkU&list=UUOR96HXTu_CcMIlXDwqARJw
2.0 16v AWD 1000HP https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgUmPU2Gvn8
These are just a few examples, I kno there are more 1000+ cars arround the world using Samsonas transmissions.
The company is located in my country and if my info is up to date i think 6 speed universal seq. is around 10000 EUR (rated up to 1400Nm/1035ft lbs). Dog box ZF 5 speed 4500-5000 EUR, 6 speed ~6000EUR.
VAC Motorsport sells these in the US.

[highboostingm3]

Yeah says call for price.. I'm too lazy for that shit lol
When it says "call for price" it means...

"...more than you can afford pal...Sequential."

[m3mods]

When it says "call for price" it means...

"...more than you can afford pal...Sequential."

Hahah yup that's why I didn't call

[5mall5nail5]

A guy I know on the DTA forum I run is using one of these in his E90 rally car:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v255/mefmotorsport/IMG_0005.jpg

Tractive


It uses BMW auto bell housing:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v255/mefmotorsport/IMG_0012-1.jpg

I was thinking of one for my car but then ended up buying a house lol

One of the perks of running an aftermarket ECU is using DBW throttle and auto blipping the down shift

[iRodD]

I Want one.

[dburt86]

I was thinking of one for my car but then ended up buying a house lol

One of the perks of running an aftermarket ECU is using DBW throttle and auto blipping the down shift

implying that one of these trans is the same as a house down payment? LOL

Speaking of Blipping the throttle, i just started reading about ALS in my Megasquirt last night. That it was pretty cool that you could use the idle valve as basically a throttle by pass to keep air coming in during shifts. Not that i have a use for it now, but i could see it being helpful in drifting or even circuit racing if i went that route

[5mall5nail5]

implying that one of these trans is the same as a house down payment? LOL

Speaking of Blipping the throttle, i just started reading about ALS in my Megasquirt last night. That it was pretty cool that you could use the idle valve as basically a throttle by pass to keep air coming in during shifts. Not that i have a use for it now, but i could see it being helpful in drifting or even circuit racing if i went that route

Well, not the same as, but I couldn't spend $15k and make my house down payment lol.

I think they're around $10 - 15k

The biggest issue I know of with most sequentials is that they are not rated for very high torque

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implying that one of these trans is the same as a house down payment? LOL

Speaking of Blipping the throttle, i just started reading about ALS in my Megasquirt last night. That it was pretty cool that you could use the idle valve as basically a throttle by pass to keep air coming in during shifts. Not that i have a use for it now, but i could see it being helpful in drifting or even circuit racing if i went that route

Idle valve won't let nearly enough air in quick enough

Watch this video at like 10 secs you'll see a throttle blip... that's the kind of response you need:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zZk3lhw1Lc

But, you can do this with a CO2 bottle and a solenoid ;)

[m3mods]

My god that would be epic!

[Aapex05]

Sweet baby Jesus

[vollosso]

You can tell they need to increase the response on the solenoid or delay the shift a millisecond.. Me thinks.

[5mall5nail5]

You can tell they need to increase the response on the solenoid or delay the shift a millisecond.. Me thinks.

No I think they have it pretty much nailed down in the driving videos. They're on a dyno which can be kind of weird to adjust that sort of thing too.

Point is, its still a cable throttle.

[bry195]

that actuator blipping the throttle looks like a high speed air punch cylinder made by nason, double shaft and spring return looks identical. if it is, the packaging machine builders mount the valve at the cylinder to control latency. the charge is held at the cylinder inlet. no inductive valves they are air piloted.

double shaft is to control side load at high speed. the punch puts the holes in plastic bags while they are in continuous motion during manufacturing. it also keeps the air volume low to keep response up. usually glass lined cylinders for low friction.

[bry195]

not trying to argue but its easier to describe what I see (which could be wrong) rather than ask if I'm missing something and take a beating for it.

[iRodD]

My d*ck just moved a little bit.

[Jkpgt96]

Collins and Maverick make adapters for the CD009 to several engines..I bet they would make them if requested..


So about the same cost as an E46 M3 tranny.


Who wants to make adapters?

[Spyke]

I have many wants for a real sequential transmission. I could not give even a partial shit about the noise.